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splbrgmi

Strip Clubs

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I just want to know why the detroit council really oppose the opening of strip clubs downtown. I do not see anything wrong with it at all. If you want any city that would be a great example of how its perfectly healthy to have an amazing vibrant downtown along with strip clubs at about every block then Look at Toronto. I have been there many many times, and it is the best city in N. America (sorry Detroit). Yonge Street is what I call their own Magnificant Mile, probably even surpassing Chicago's in shopping, homes, hotels, retail, and still it's filled with strip clubs, adult cinemas, video stores, even bathhouses, and they are not hidden and private. the name, half nude pictures, gay flags, and more are all over the buildings. And still, the street looks perfectly fine to me, filled with people 247, you would never feel unsafe there at anytime. and no, there is no prostitution, even infront of those clubs. So what is the big deal. If a city wants to become a vibrant mecca for people, it should offer all types of services, that would serve anyone. If you're not into strip clubs, simply don't go into one (no one ever forced you to). I just don't see why they would stop a "business" from opening, when that is what Michigan needs the most now. I Hope some of you agree and do not attack me. Thank you

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Good point, its time to wake up walk into the 21st century!

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What strip club was opposed?

I mean damn, I wish Detroit had more department and grocery stores, a ton more restaurants, but we can't have everything right? It would be nice to look like Chicago or Toronto, but that just isn't going to happen.

Again, post a link as to what particular strip club was denied and we can discuss it.

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What strip club was opposed?

I mean damn, I wish Detroit had more department and grocery stores, a ton more restaurants, but we can't have everything right? It would be nice to look like Chicago or Toronto, but that just isn't going to happen.

Again, post a link as to what particular strip club was denied and we can discuss it.

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That's what I was thinking of as well, but it was over the liquor license. But I've heard nothing about them actually being denied from opening a Hustler location within Detroit.

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The liquor license issues is an easy cop-out. The truth is that the city is socially conservative, and everyone knows it but never says it, and that plans like this always receive more opposition than support. The thing is, this is not the first time strip clubs (regardless of where they have been proposed) have met this type of opposition, nor will it be the last. What's most ironic and hypocritical about this is up until very recently, the citizens (and city) didn't seem to have a problem with much more morally damaging liquor stores and check cashing stores setting up on every corner of the city.

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OMG. Yonge Street is a complete dump. Bums and whinos laying on the sidewalks. Sorry, but it's nowhere near Michigan Ave in Chicago.

Toronto-YongeStreet.jpg

It's like what Times Square used to look like before it was cleaned up, and now look at the massive amounts of redevelopment in that area of NYC.

The last thing Detroit needs. Not that I'm for banning strip clubs, but a whole main strip devoted to sex shops will not be Detroit's saving grace.

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The last thing Detroit needs. Not that I'm for banning strip clubs, but a whole main strip devoted to sex shops will not be Detroit's saving grace.

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Guys... I never said woodward should copy any of these streets. They are all diffrent in their own way. I just mean that the city should not just simply deny these businesses from opening just because they think they shouldn't be there. Every business has it's customers, and some people will visit detorit, and they will want to go to a strip club. So why would we close our doors to those visitors that come here to maybe visit a strip club.

What I mean is that strip clubs don't turn a street into a dark alley of prostitutes and dangerous people like detroit officials are making it look like. They dont' lower property value, and they dont' drive away businesses. It will be just one of the businesses on that street, minding it's own business. That's what's happening on Yonge, strip clubs exist in large numbers, but so do restaurants, up-scale condominums, stores, hotels and so on. In fact, TRUMP toronto is opening not too far from a strip club, acually I should say not too far from many strip clubs. If Trump is not being turned away from these businessess, can you tell me who would be. (sure maybe a church, but I'd expect that)

Maybe I shouldn't have said yonge is better than Mich. Accually they are completely diffrent but beautfiul in their own way. Michigan chicago is very clean, polished, and upscale. While Yonge is like you said "a dump," but in my opinion that's good. A good street doesn't have to have perfectly aligned buildings with perfect store fronts and good looking store signs.

Also, The "bums and Whinos" exist in every major city. I dare you to go to yonge street and the next day to Mich ave, and see virtually no diffrance in that matter. It just "looks" (not is) worse on Yonge, because it's not as lit up and upscale as chicago's maginificant mile is. This is my opinion, but I'm just not bothered by those bums, I tend to mind my business, and so will they. Obviously their existance has had no economic effect on these vibrant streets. People simply continue to walk.

Anyways, the point here is on the strip clubs. They are businessess, and as an economics major, I know that they tend to bring in alot of money to the city that houses them, and if any city right now needs that amount of money, it's Detroit.

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I dont care if they put Strip Clubs in downtown Detroit, but i dont want them on woodward, or anywhere near the stadiums. Keep the tittie bars out of sight, and not all light up with XXX signs, thats the last thing Detroit needs just as families are just starting to visit downtown again.

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Just to add to that. Your picture of Yonge seems very outdated, and me being a frequent Toronto visitor, that area is at the end of the acuall downtown. It can be seen more like Midtown or uptown (of course that's not what they call it). Yonge is a very very long street and in the suburbs becomes a very large boulavaurd with many high rises and expensive stores. Most importantly, Yonge in the downtown area is very simular to Mich ave. The Eaton center area is seeing more development everyday and is now home to one of the largest malls in N. America, Hard rock cafe, Hockey Hall of fame of fame, and soon AMC theaters mega complex, just to name a few. In addition many many specialty stores like the ones you see on Michigan ave including Guess, Calvin Klein and all those other guys.

Sorry if I went too far, but I just don't want people to think that the picture you posted is what Yonge really looks like. I'd say it's from the very early 90's, but I could be very wrong.

Eaton_toronto_s0897.jpg

this is the closest picture that resembles what I'm talking about, it's definatly not the best

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Just to add to that. Your picture of Yonge seems very outdated, and me being a frequent Toronto visitor, that area is at the end of the acuall downtown. It can be seen more like Midtown or uptown (of course that's not what they call it). Yonge is a very very long street and in the suburbs becomes a very large boulavaurd with many high rises and expensive stores. Most importantly, Yonge in the downtown area is very simular to Mich ave. The Eaton center area is seeing more development everyday and is now home to one of the largest malls in N. America, Hard rock cafe, Hockey Hall of fame of fame, and soon AMC theaters mega complex, just to name a few. In addition many many specialty stores like the ones you see on Michigan ave including Guess, Calvin Klein and all those other guys.

Sorry if I went too far, but I just don't want people to think that the picture you posted is what Yonge really looks like. I'd say it's from the very early 90's, but I could be very wrong.

this is the closest picture that resembles what I'm talking about, it's definatly not the best

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Detroit is trying to revitalize its downtown to lure young workers and make it friendly to families. The last thing they need is to put in strip clubs and give suburbanites another reason to stay away. Sure they are businesses that produce tax revenue but we dont need them in our downtown. Downtown and Midtown are turning around as it is, we dont need a few tacky strip clubs to further spur development or tax revenue. There are plenty of places within the city limits to put in these clubs. Its clear your only looking at the economics of such a business and not the overall image the city is trying to create for itself.

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Younge street is very very nice. I wasn't paying attention to what the exact shops were, so I didn't notice and strip clubs, but Younge street is very very nice. That type of young hip busy retail/entertainment area is something that I think Detroit should have (imo, either in midtown by wsu, or adjacent to greektown).

In the context of something like younge street, a classy strip club like hustlers or whatever it was can be a part of everything without it affecting peoples perceptions. It would just be part of the big hustle and bustle. But in the context of some parking lots and abandoned buildings in a crimeful place (where in downtown did they want it again? I don't remember), a strip club would not look so good. Especially to people who are looking for reasons to not like downtown.

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I think some where near Greektown. It would be at the Zoo bar. I never was able to find that bar's location, but it's definatly in the entertainment/casino district of Greektown. Also, look at capitol park, there's a strip club there, and it's still expected to be hottest town square in town in a couple of years... you just watch.

Does anyone have any pictures of the "BC garage/condos on top" development?

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Yes there are existing strip clubs downtown but in order to grow and develope the area you cant just add these establishments because they produce tax revenue. You really think the people that visit one of these downtown strip joints then go ice-skating at Campus Martius or to a nice restaurant downtown afterwards? The tax revenue isnt worth hurting the momentum and image downtown is building right now. Im glad the city isnt just approving these businesses.

And I can assure you that if Capitol Park does turn around and become a residential destination in the city like I anticipate and owners of these buildings invest time and money to renovate them, you will see that strip club disappear. You can sell high cost luxury living when theres a strip club on the ground floor.

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I don't see the greektown strip club going anywhere, and that area is thriving just as much as Capitol park would or could be. There's a four star hotel right across the street there, it didn't seem to hurt them and the image doesn't look bad at all. This is a one man's point of view, not everyone agrees with you. Some people go to skating only, some people go to eat only, and some people may want to only go to a strip club (sure those people might be insane, but it's none of my or your business).

Anyways, I sort of agree with you on the limits. We shouldn't have strip clubs ALL over the place and maybe not on woodward either, but this one just wouldn't hurt, especially when it's as big as they say it would be. This would really put detroit on the entertainment map, even if that implies only to the adult entertainment industry.

I'm not saying detroit should seek out for strip clubs like they do to restaurants, night clubs and condos, but they just shouldn't deny them either. Maybe one or two more, and that's it. Then I would be on agreement with you if it goes further. I just base that on the current ones we have, THEY SEEM TO CAUSE NO HARM.

Zoo bar could be a strip club anyways, they're just closed at the moment. All city council has to do it transfer the liscense. they are not approving or denying a brand new establishment, it's alreay pre-existing and just needs new owners to operate. You could see that place open up as a strip club anyways, so why drive away someone whose interested in taking over it. I just don't think our council is very inteligent, sorry.

But anyways, I'm not even into strip clubs and I'm defending this issue, the important thing is Detroit continues to bring in all types of developments into our core city, so we can be a destination. And yes, strip clubs for some insane people are considered destinations, so I will welcome them. I do respect your view though, it has logic.

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Sure its a form of entertainment but we dont necessarily need all forms of entertainment downtown. I think the Casinos have the adult themed entertainment down pat. You mentioned in another thread how Detroit was a "dump" (slightly out of context) and I dont see how approving more strip clubs for downtown, which is largely the face of the city and region, improves the image or makes it more desirable to visit. The entertainment we should be focusing on is stuff that brings people down, and keeps them here. I just dont see strip club goers spending more money downtown after they get their fill. The current clubs dont cause any harm but make them more plentiful and you will see people avoiding downtown or certain spots.

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Hey man, I didn't say detroit was s "dump." even though cetrain areas may be. I said Yonge street was, but then corrected my self and said that it used to be. It is nice today in the downtown area. Anyways, I made my point, and I'll just say that this should be the last strip club approved for the downtown area. Put the rest in hidden parts of the neighborhoods and away from our schools and churches.

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Zissou, strip clubs can, and have been, an entertainment option in downtowns across this country, and will continue to be. You act as if only families come down to visit downtowns. A downtown is all about the consolidation of interesting businesses, and strip clubs are just as much a part of this as Campus Martius. I really get tired of hearing the same people rail against casinos, and it gives away their bias, quickly, of what they secretly see as vices. Downtown Detroit is not here to simply cater to children and assorted church ladies and men, it's here to cater to whomever comes looking for legitimate business and entertainment. The idea that a few more strip clubs are going to turn downtown into some seedy hell is simply wishful thinking for those that just don't happen to like that type of entertainment.

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Do you associate strip clubs with great parts of downtowns in other cities? In Times Square in New York its lowpoint was when it was filled with nothing but strip clubs. They passed legislation to limit the amount of strip clubs in the area and it become a destination again. Ive been to strip clubs, im no prude, I just dont see how at this point in downtowns revitalization that we need to blast the city for not allowing a club to go in. Is there a problem not wanting them downtown? You of all people should know that what applies to other cities doesnt always apply to Detroit. When your trying to build back an image of safety and cleanliness allowing more strip clubs to set up shop is counter-productive.

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I've been back and forth on this issue, but I have to agree with Zissou...at least for the most part.

Let me use an analogy- we go on and on about "quality developments" around here. We talk all the time about new businesses or closing businesses. We talk about parks and architecture and the riverfront and all that stuff. But the one thing that the discussion always comes back to is "quality". We want to make sure that a new Detroit is a quality Detroit.

In general (though not always the case) a strip club leads to the negativity of an area. I, as have many men have been to establishments like these that do not take away from the surroundings. But on the whole they do give off a negative vibe and in a city that is struggling to attract any visitors, it is probably not a great idea to add a questionable establishment.

It would certainly be more beneficial for Detroit to find a solution that can lead to more quality development instead of a development that will stagnate that surrounding area.

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I dont' think Detroit should keep accepting these strip clubs, especially in the neighborhoods. Not that there should be ANY more, but in my opinion they belong in the downtown area more than in the neighborhoods. I dont' think people in the Hills, Warren, and Troy would tolerate such a business. Hell, Troy is even going nuts over the new Hooters, which is really nothing more than a restaurant. Why should Detroiters have to live near these types of clubs. I think we should focus on neighborhoods more than anything else. Downtown had enough attention from the city, now it's time for the private sector to take over, which they are. Kwame finally understood that and shifted his attention to what the city needs most fixed before we can call this a historic transformation.

Not that I would want the city to do this and destroy the fortunes of the business owner, but does the council have the right of vote to close all current strip clubs?

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On the surface, it seemed foolish for the City to reject the Hustler Club. They have clubs in downtown San Fransisco, San Diego, New York some very highly regarded cities, why shouldn't they have one in Detroit? But I think given that they are so highly thought of, they can allow them without doing much damage to their image. Detroit is a region where people are just becoming comfortable with going downtown regularly. The news of an strip club opening downtown might make some wary of coming, because it plays on downtown's stereotype as a shady, dangerous place

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Strip clubs work well as "second level businesses" as in the 2nd story of a building. While the ground level is occupied by some other establishment that could easily be family oriented, the strip club can still occupy a space within the district and the negative vibe as statedude mentioned is mitigated. Strip clubs rarely require grand entrances anyway. It's all about what's being shown inside. A door at street level that accesses a small foyer that leads to stairways/elevators to the 2nd level would be a good design strategy. Now that I think of it, club Necto (which isn't a strip club) here in Ann Arbor has a similar system. Since Necto is only open at night, it makes sense to have a 2nd floor location leaving the ground floor to another business that is open during the day. In this case, it's a Chinese Restaurant.

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