A high end Department Store.. Is it ever coming to Jacksonville?

[Ceballos]

Macy's is coming to the St. Johns town center as we know. However, Macy's is like a Dillards, pretty nice, but not elite. Not Close.

Let's Say this.

Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue- The 2 most prestigous department stores reafily available to consumers. Chance of coming here anytime soon. Not good at all, shouldn't even waste our time thinking about it for the next 20 years.....

Nordstrom-

That's what we want, one Nordstrom...They still have brands found at dillards, and they also have higher end stuff.

So what does everyone think?

My prediction is that we get one 3 years after phase II is proven successful.

[derrickskugler]

I know that up until at least a few months ago, there were plans for 2, if not all 3 of the higher-end department stores at the SJTC. A prediction of 20 years down the road is laughable. We're not Waycross, GA. 2-3 years maximum is more likely.

[Ceballos]

I know that up until at least a few months ago, there were plans for 2, if not all 3 of the higher-end department stores at the SJTC. A prediction of 20 years down the road is laughable. We're not Waycross, GA. 2-3 years maximum is more likely.

[gjoseph]

But don't you guys have a Parisian that's kinda high-end but I mean here in Tampa we have a Neiman and a Nordstroms and they're not that different from Macy's or Dillards and they carry pretty much all of the things that Macy's or Dillards have. What I really wish that JAX and Tampa could get is a Bloomingdales that like the top of them all lol!! The closest one is in Orlando though

[Ceballos]

But don't you guys have a Parisian that's kinda high-end but I mean here in Tampa we have a Neiman and a Nordstroms and they're not that different from Macy's or Dillards and they carry pretty much all of the things that Macy's or Dillards have. What I really wish that JAX and Tampa could get is a Bloomingdales that like the top of them all lol!! The closest one is in Orlando though

[derrickskugler]

Allow me to repeat... there were talks as recently as a year or so ago about bringing Saks and/or NM to the SJTC. We are NOT 20 years away.

[Ceballos]

Allow me to repeat... there were talks as recently as a year or so ago about bringing Saks and/or NM to the SJTC. We are NOT 20 years away.

[Spartan]

You guys should be more optomisitc about these things. Jacksonville could easily handle a Nordstrom. Saks is more picky, so it may take longer to get them in, but I don't see why it would take 20 years? I think you're looking at 2-5 years for these things. Its jujust a metter of time.

[derrickskugler]

2-5 years... I agree. I guess some people just aren't happy unless they are being negative. Sad, really. Jax was 20 years away from getting one of those stores in 1989. Hammer pants aren't cool anymore... and Jacksonville isn't still 20 years away.

I also couldn't disagree more with the statement that the SJTC will kill The Avenues. What!?!?? Atlanta has malls every 8-10 miles and they all do quite well... with a similar population density that the Southside of Jax has. How do I know? I used to live there. The two malls can and will co-exist just fine.

Stop being so pessamistic. Life is good, try smiling once in a while.

[Ceballos]

I smile more than and am happy more then anyone you're likely to meet. Regardless of that..... why can't this be undertstood.....i said 3 years for a nordstrom.. saks fifth avenue and neiman marcus have a higher price point than nordstrom and bloomingdales, they aren't the same. I guess you guys don't realize how selective they are. Fine 10 years for the other guys....

So, as i said 2010 for a Nordstrom. Malls are one of the things I really like, infact i want to work for simon.

I wonder... if it's so easy to get one, and we're so capable.. why isn't there one? I think we could support one without much of a problem. Of course the Avenues mall won't die completly, it will still be there, still open. Just not thriving. Jacksonville is not Atlanta, i wish it were an elite city like atlanta is, but we're not. Lenox is a great mall they have, i wish we had one like it. That, and the aquarium as well.

Phase II is finished by fall, so we'll see how it goes. I think it could be a great mall. I especially love what they are doing with the restuarants.... I just hope they keep bringing ones that are new to the market, (not applebees) that would be ideal.

[Charlotteman]

I live near Seattle and have been to both Macy's and Nordstrom many times. Personally I don't think there is a dime's difference in them.

I also think Ivey's and Jacksonville's May Cohens (of yesteryear) were just as good as Nordstrom or Macy's.

For Jacksonville, I think getting a Bloomingdales would be a huge step forward!

[johnatl]

I live near Seattle and have been to both Macy's and Nordstrom many times. Personally I don't think there is a dime's difference in them.

I also think Ivey's and Jacksonville's May Cohens (of yesteryear) were just as good as Nordstrom or Macy's.

For Jacksonville, I think getting a Bloomingdales would be a huge step forward!

[Charlotteman]

Oh I don't know.........Nordstrom isn't the king of the hill as far as I'm concerned. Neither is Macy's. In my humble opinion the old May Cohens downtown store was great and very underrated.

[nanaaapl]

If we can get Loius Vuitton we can get high end fashion department stores!

[johnatl]

You guys will eventually get most of this stuff being discussed.....but Bloomingdales is quite a stretch, IMO. They usually want at the minimum 2 million+ in a metro. I'm actually surprised they built one in Orlando, and I don't think they would have without all the toursit $$$$$.

[cameronm]

You guys will eventually get most of this stuff being discussed.....but Bloomingdales is quite a stretch, IMO. They usually want at the minimum 2 million+ in a metro. I'm actually surprised they built one in Orlando, and I don't think they would have without all the toursit $$$$$.

[asonj23]

Looks like you're mistaken Caballos, we're gonna get what we wanted!

Macy's, Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus all in one place.

More than 110 people heard St. Johns Town Center developer Ben Carter say it.

"I have a goal for this year of announcing Macy's, Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus," Carter told the Urban Land Institute's Jacksonville council this week.

Just to be clear, I asked him again, in front of the crowd. When did he intend to announce the three retailers, all new to the market?

"This year," Carter repeated.

So, there you go. Carter, who is developing St. Johns Town Center with Simon Property Group, is clearly on the record.

It's not as if we haven't been reporting the possibility of those retailers coming to town, or Carter's desire for them.

We have. For years. But this time, Carter hung his words on a time frame in public.

He said Nordstrom has "been here in the last month." He said a Neiman Marcus executive "promised to come see the market in the next few months."

But what do they say?

As in the past, not much.

"There are always conversations going on with Macy's and the Jacksonville market," said Lisa Kauffman at Macy's Florida. "At this time we have no official plans to enter the Jacksonville market."

However, she and Carter said Jacksonville is the only market of a million people where there's no Macy's.

Nordstrom didn't commit, either. "We just don't have any plans to announce there in Jacksonville," spokeswoman Deniz Anders said.

Neiman Marcus Group spokeswoman Ginger Reeder sent an e-mail. "When, or if, we are ready to make an announcement in [regard] to a new store in Jacksonville, we will let you know. We are continually evaluating new markets."

Carter says those three stores and some smaller shops would constitute Phase Three of the town center, which sits at Butler Boulevard and Florida 9A.

The center opened in March 2005. A second phase under construction will include stores such as Louis Vuitton, Coach and Crate & Barrel. Although some of the second-phase stores were announced last year, Carter revealed more this week.

Despite skepticism about the area's ability to support the likes of Neiman Marcus, Carter claims the money's here.

He says the center's trade area runs north to Brunswick, Ga., southwest to Ocala and Gainesville (each has a Macy's) and south to Palm Coast.

He said the average trade area household income is $72,000. His research shows the strongest growth is in households making more than $75,000.

"We did a lot of study about who you are and where you're going," he said.

And he said we're going south, geographically. He's putting his money where his research is.

Next to the south end of the Town Center, Carter intends to partner with Regency Centers to develop the proposed Markets of Town Center. He said the 200,000-square-foot project would be anchored by "a five-star grocery store" that he would not identify. (I suspected Whole Foods. Its spokeswoman said the company doesn't announce until a lease is signed. Its first area store, in Mandarin, should open in 2008.)

Farther south, Carter predicts another 4 million square feet of retail space - the equivalent of three more Avenues malls - into St. Johns County, including his proposed 1.5 million-square-foot Esplanade expected to open in 2010. "St. Johns County is getting ready to take off in the next five years as a hub," he said.

And he said it to more than 110 people.

[email protected], (904) 359-4305

[Ceballos]

Looks like you're mistaken Caballos, we're gonna get what we wanted!

Macy's, Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus all in one place.

[asonj23]

By DIANA MIDDLETON

The Times-Union

A longtime player in the retail game, Donn Carr knows a thing or two about shopping.

Carr, manager of The Avenues mall, has also worked as an independent menswear designer, a merchandise manager for Dillards and at Banana Republic during its acquisition by The Gap Inc. Carr spoke with the Times-Union about the future of The Avenues - and enclosed malls. Edited excerpts follow.

The Avenues is on the precipice of some tenant shuffling. What will shoppers see change?

Our national deals average 10 years in length. As leases begin to expire, it's an opportunity to look at what's here and who we can move in. We did something similar six years ago, when we brought in the Bananas [banana Republic], the Abercrombies [Abercrombie & Fitch].

Will the tenant mix be more upscale?

Yes, we will continue to be true to our customer base. They're looking for the type of things they're not already getting in the Jacksonville market.

The Parisian location (recently acquired by Belk) at The Avenues will eventually close its doors. What will take its place?

Boy, I wish I could talk. I'm hoping within the next 30 days to six weeks we can talk more.

It seems that retail developers are concentrating more on open-air lifestyle centers as opposed to traditional enclosed malls. What is the future of the enclosed mall?

Enclosed malls are still important. When we do focus studies between those who shop at lifestyle centers and enclosed centers, we find that the same customer cross shops. A lifestyle center is a throwback to the time of family and relaxation - it's more about strolling. But for the hard core shoppers, nothing will replace the enclosed center. It has a weather environment that is level, and everything is convenient, whereas in a lifestyle center, you've got a long hike back to your car. And hopefully there isn't a rain storm.

[email protected], (904) 359-4404