Affordable Housing

[RaleighRob]

And the trend is spreading to suburbia too...

Talked to a guy yesterday in north Raleigh...his apartment off Ray Road is jumping from 580 to 800 a month! Just because they painted the outside of the building.

[miamiblue]

And the trend is spreading to suburbia too...

Talked to a guy yesterday in north Raleigh...his apartment off Ray Road is jumping from 580 to 800 a month! Just because they painted the outside of the building.

[ncwebguy]

I wonder if the $580/month unit was in the city's "affordable" inventory and/or if the $800/month rent takes it out.

Can landlords increase rent 35%+ year over year to *existing* tenants? I could see charging the higher rent to new renters, but not that much of an increase due to taxes and a coat of paint.

Where are people going to move if this trend continues across the city? To say nothing of the increase of minimum wage earners required to handle the growth we've seen in recent years.

[RaleighRob]

I wonder if the $580/month unit was in the city's "affordable" inventory and/or if the $800/month rent takes it out.

[miamiblue]

I wonder if the $580/month unit was in the city's "affordable" inventory and/or if the $800/month rent takes it out.

Can landlords increase rent 35%+ year over year to *existing* tenants? I could see charging the higher rent to new renters, but not that much of an increase due to taxes and a coat of paint.

Where are people going to move if this trend continues across the city? To say nothing of the increase of minimum wage earners required to handle the growth we've seen in recent years.

[Jones_]

A slightly converse situation I had at the beloved Whitaker Park Apartments (RIP) was a result of dealing with the Tarheel Companies. When the local economy was tanking in 2002 rents were actually dropping at Whitaker Park, well below what my lease was for (465 vs 545 I think...2 bedroom!). When my lease was up they slipped an already prepared new one under my door at the old rate. I asked if I could have the new cheaper rate that new move-ins were getting, and the response was along the lines of "we know its too expensive for you to move somewhere else, so you get the old, higher rate". I had my new engineering job so promptly gave my notice of intent not to renew, and found a place near City Market in a few days. So they ended up losing me and signing a new tenant at the lower rate a few months later,...losing money at the end of it all for those months my place stayed vacant.

[miamiblue]

Controversy brewing over proposed public housing community

I just read this story regarding converting the Georges Mews apartments at Glenwood Ave. and Washington St. to low-income housing.

A non-profit group, Community Alternatives for Supportive Abodes (CASA), wants to take over the Georges Mews Apartments at the corner of Glenwood Avenue and Washington Street. Their plan calls for turning the units into affordable housing for the disabled and low-income families.

[RaleighRob]

I agree with you here. (This place was on my short list of possible downtown apartments when I was looking this past spring....glad I didn't go with it.)

30k is awfully low for an income restriction. People making salaries in the 30s and low 40s still need an inexpensive place to live in downtown Raleigh...cuz goodness knows there's little to choose from as it is! (Thanks to the developers only wanting to make luxury condos these days.) This would just make it worse.

We've already got income-restricted places at Glenwood Towers, Carriage House, Gateway Park, Carlton Place, Chavis, and Capital Park. Does downtown really need another....especially at the expense of people already living there?

I'm all for more affordable housing in and around downtown for sure---but for everyone. Lower-middle-class folks need it just as much...if not more!

Also, I thought these were all single-bedroom units...what's this about "low-income families"?

[DPK]

I'm all for affordable housing, but I don't like what CASA is trying to do here. Kicking these people out of their homes that were there first because they make too much money is just asinine. One of the home owners said on the news last night that CASA will probably come in and not make any changes what so ever to the properties. They'll basically do just minimal maintenance and not try to improve what's there.

Do we really need more subsidized housing downtown? Shouldn't we be trying to get more people downtown that can afford the environment and contribute to the growth and prosperity of the area? I'm not saying we should push subsidized housing out, but basically CASA is pushing out people that are actually beneficial to the area who couldn't afford to own property in the area.

There's some kind of twisted irony here somewhere.

[ncwebguy]

There is a lot of capital A Affordable housing, government regulated and income restricted. In additon to Rob's list, there is also Prarieview on Wilmington, the Sir Walter Raleigh on F Street, Heritage Park (other side of Western Blvd from Gateway Park), Walnut Terrace, the homeless shelter on Wilmington, the Raleigh Rescue Mission's housing on Hargett, and several Raleigh Housing Authority apartment complexes (Eastwood Court on Davie, another one on Camden north and south of Martin), a few rennovated houses, and section 8 voucher houses.

But there is little in the lower a affordable, market rate housing stock. It pretty much begins and ends with the apartments on Hillsborough Street near St. Marys, until Tucker comes on line. And who knows what rent will be there? It is unfortuante that the affordable student housing for NC State is pushing further away from downtown along Avent Ferry and Gorman.

There were some students living in Boylan Heights when I was in school, but they quickly got priced out of that area. It would be nice to see the area between Boylan and Saunders, to down along Lake Wheeler develop into a close to downtown affordable neighborhood, but even that seems poised for higher end townhomes. I hope the Woodpile site east of Moore Square is unrestricted affordable, but that project may be on hold due to the tight lending atmosphere in the banking industry.

I think Georges Mews would be better if it was a mix like Carlton Place, but CASA seems to want to make all its units for fixed income folks only.

A better mass transit system would make the need for both kinds of affordable housing to be located close to downtown, but there should still be some available units available anyway.

[Jones_]

Middle income stock as you all point out is under attack from both ends....in this area Whitaker Park comes to mind. I have one question...does CASA necessarily accept section 8? I have always been unclear if income restricted places also must accept section 8. I have never heard of this group...where do they get their funding? What other properties do they own/manage? I am all about homestead (level property taxes on the elderly etc.) style everything, so even in the event that CASA takes over, they should only apply their restrictions to new move-ins.

[miamiblue]

Here is the CASA website: http://www.casanc.org/ (they seem to have some html issues on the first page). They have sample photos of some of their other properties, but no addresses.

According to the web page, funding comes from the following:

Wake County provides CASA with operational support and occasional matching opportunities. CASA obtains funds from other federal, state and local sources to develop its projects, including...

U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development

N.C. Housing Finance Agency

N.C. Division of Mental /Developmental Disabilities/Substance Abuse Services

Wake County Housing and Community Revitalization

City of Raleigh

Wake County Human Services

NC Office of Economic Opportunity

[RaleighRob]

^Well, they could buy the property and just gradually fill it with the new lower-income residents, as others move out. That way they'd at least not be kicking out people who already live there. Seems like the least they could do. (That way they could also use the money they take in from the remaining market rate units and save it towards more projects.)

Ideally though, I'd like to see them buy some decayed, dilapidated lot, tear down whatever is there, and build something nice and decent in its place. That way, not only would they be providing affordable housing for low-income folks, but they'd be actually improving part of the community at the same time.

[ncwebguy]

A few years ago, CASA (or some other group, or a partnership) wanted to buy the Kings Motel on Wilmington Street south of MLK and the bridge over the train tracks, but the neighorhood said no, as they had enough with Walnut Terrace and the homeless shelter.

I don't know if it got to city council and they denied it, or if CASA/whoever pulled out when the community fought it.

I'd be all for that, but I don't know where underused property could be acquired with the funds CASA has to play with. Nowhere else in the Glenwood corridor ITB, at least.

[yoga]

I don't know a lot about it, but I was thinking over the weekend about cities like NY that have rent controlled apts. Since I didn't know what it was, I hit wikipedia. As with anything, there are plusses and minuses. The article lists arguments in both favor and against, in terms of economic, social, and moral impacts.

I'm wondering what the tipping point is for adopting policies like it, since the main gripe about owning downtown is price. What do you guys think?

[RaleighRob]

^ I dunno if rent controls are necessary here. Like you said the main gripe about owning in downtown is price. (Ie, all the condos seem to be aimed for people making almost six digits.)

Renting downtown isn't as terribly bad if you're willing to go for an older building...however it is still high for what you get, as compared to the 'burbs. (But you kinda expect that.)

Personally, I think the biggest issue about market-rate (ie, non-subsidized) downtown apartments is really that there's simply not enough of them. Period. We need more so that they will actually compete with each other a bit, instead of a near-monopoly like we're currently seeing. Then we'll see the prices stay in check better.

(And this isn't just Raleigh by no means...I'd say it applies to Durham and Chapel Hill as well.)

[ChiefJoJo]

^ I dunno if rent controls are necessary here. Like you said the main gripe about owning in downtown is price. (Ie, all the condos seem to be aimed for people making almost six digits.) Renting downtown isn't as terribly bad if you're willing to go for an older building...however it is still high for what you get, as compared to the 'burbs. (But you kinda expect that.)

Personally, I think the biggest issue about market-rate (ie, non-subsidized) downtown apartments is really that there's simply not enough of them. Period. We need more so that they will actually compete with each other a bit, instead of a near-monopoly like we're currently seeing. Then we'll see the prices stay in check better.

(And this isn't just Raleigh by no means...I'd say it applies to Durham and Chapel Hill as well.)

[Gard]

^

Most of the renters went to the Spring Forest/Lynn Rd/Millbrook area. A lot of folks are sitting on land and older developments up here in NE Raleigh (in particular the 540/TTC area) as well in hopes that another developer will come along do build another project and want their land. On a side note, they have condos planned for behind Best Buy/Circuit city now. Now, if someone would PLEASE tear down Capital City Plaza and the adjacent Knights Inn, an empty lot would look better than that boarded up eyesore .

[Jones_]

Renting downtown isn't as terribly bad if you're willing to go for an older building...however it is still high for what you get, as compared to the 'burbs. (But you kinda expect that.)

[RaleighRob]

^Well, to clarify, I didn't really mean bigger space or square footage as much as I was hinting at not having more modern aspects like central air, laundry hookups, safe electrical wiring that doesn't predate WWII, etc.

To be clear, I wasn't knocking it...I do love the downtown apartments. My point was that if there was more supply of moderate market-rate units, particularly of newer buildings, then it would give more competition to keep prices in check...and/or encourage better updating of the older apartments already there.

[miamiblue]

I don't think the big issue is the cost of middle-income affordable housing in downtown, but rather the supply, and the fact that it is disappearing at a much higher rate than it is being replenished. I rent downtown in this very category, and I of course see the benefits of living here and have reaped them. But if I don't have a place that I can rent within my affordability window, all that is for naught. Most people like myself are already doing everything they can to reduce their expenses/carbon footprint, etc. and all of the savings from that are still not enough to afford to rent a 1br condo for $1500/month if that is all that is available once all the little duplexes, etc. are razed for luxury whatever or turned into Affordable income-restricted housing.

It's just class warfare on the middle/lower-middle class. We're not making enough to spend the big bucks, but we're making too much for people to care.

[miamiblue]

FWIW, the City of Raleigh's Affordable Housing Task Force is going to meet August 26th.

From the City's website:

Affordable Housing Task Force Meets On Aug. 26

The City of Raleigh's Affordable Housing Task Force will have its first meeting on Tuesday, Aug. 26 from 4:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. in Room 305 at the Avery C. Upchurch Government Complex, 222 W. Hargett St.

On April 15, the Raleigh City Council approved the establishment of the Affordable Housing Task Force. The 23-member task force will conduct a comprehensive study on affordable housing and provide recommendations to the City Council on potential affordable housing strategies that should be incorporated into the City of Raleigh Comprehensive Plan Update Process

[ChiefJoJo]

Bob Geary on what's become of the affordable housing issue in Raleigh.

[Gard]

^

I find it disgusting that the city will take no action on it. If they want downtown, or any part of the city in their "urban nodes" to be successful, they NEED to ensure that affordable housing is available. Downtown will never thrive if it doesn't have a good mix of housing options.

[Jones_]

I think there is a connotation, an assumption that "affordable housing" means subsidized section 8 units for "po folks". The City doesn't seem to realize that a person making $50,000 a year has almost no options for purchase (assuming normal loan prequalifications that would land someone around a $200,000 home max...monthly payment around 1200ish) in our downtown. Other than Hue and its 700 sqft option, all new stuff is far above and beyond this income level. This is a huge impediment to growth downtown and ultimately could be across the City. The current market correction will help this some.

While I am sleepy and not checking my thoughts very well I should say that most property in town is 6% more expensive than it needs to be because of realtors.

Cheers