Elizabeth Projects (7th St, Elizabeth Ave, etc)

[southslider]

To help the "traffic abatement," no more city bus route on Baldwin and Baxter:

http://charlottenc.gov/cats/transit-planning/envisionmyride/Pages/envision-my-ride.aspx

 

[Victor28204]

17 hours ago, Vitamin_N said:

FYI it's 6:00, not 6:30. See the description below--I don't know precisely what they mean by "weigh options for traffic abatement" as in my mind that could mean anything from speed bumps to deny rezoning requests:

Cherry neighborhood meeting Tuesday, June 12, 6-8 at Asian Herald Library

CHERRY NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING Tuesday, June 12, 2018 6:00 – 8:00 p.m. Asian Herald Library 1339 Baxter St. The purpose of this meeting is to weigh options for traffic abatement on Baxter and Baldwin Streets.

With LOTS of development around Cherry – whether in progress, already approved by City Council, or the proposed 20-story development on 3rd Street at Baldwin – the risk of cut-through on Baxter and Baldwin Streets is much increased. We would like to engage the entire community in thinking together about options to minimize cut-through traffic to ensure safety for our kids and older adults.

Please join us and invite your neighbors! A representative from the City Planning Department will be present to answer questions.

I'll be going. I too question what specifically they are going to propose as speed bumps have already been shot down as the fire department said the cut through is imperative to their operations. The only way to stop the cut through would be to create a break from kings to queens, which would also be at the expense of the residents who live in the neighborhood. Quite honestly, it's dumb, but I am attending because I heard there is going to be city representation at the meeting. I think the meeting is going to devolve into arguing over the CCO not holding public meeting, elections, and the general well being of the neighborhood.

[tozmervo]

14 hours ago, Victor28204 said:

I'll be going. I too question what specifically they are going to propose as speed bumps have already been shot down as the fire department said the cut through is imperative to their operations. The only way to stop the cut through would be to create a break from kings to queens, which would also be at the expense of the residents who live in the neighborhood. Quite honestly, it's dumb, but I am attending because I heard there is going to be city representation at the meeting. I think the meeting is going to devolve into arguing over the CCO not holding public meeting, elections, and the general well being of the neighborhood

Traffic plateaus are usually a good alternative to speed bumps. The foot print of entire intersections can be raised up. Fire Departments are usually more OK with those (see: raised crosswalk in front of Latta Arcade)

[deleted]

On 6/11/2018 at 10:56 AM, KJHburg said:

NIMBYs also turned in the 1980s an open shopping center with Belk and Lord &Taylor into a the Arboretum of today anchored by Walmart and Harris Teeter.  

Interesting! 

I actually support local residents having a lot of say on what gets built in their neighborhoods.  And it's not like local developers have built up a lot of trust and goodwill with some of the crap they've built.  I still don't primarily blame Elizabeth residents for pushing for the best project they could get (and think it's awful that buildings were demolished before they were prepared to begin construction, which didn't ingratiate the developer to residents).  All of that said, this seems like a good project and I'd support it if I lived there.  Others  have mentioned that it's a few powerful residents who are the primary opponents.  I don't think it's untrue that traffic will increase significantly but I do suspect that something worse will eventually be built here if this isn't.

Edited June 13, 2018 by JBS

[deleted]

On 6/11/2018 at 10:28 AM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Its hard to know with a very "green" council and planning director in place. Nimbys turned a beautiful 42 floor Arlington into a 28 floor Pink box. Our beautiful flatiron on 7th and Pecan will likely be lost because of Nimbys. Theres powerful people in some of these groups, especially in Elizabeth, and now that Myers Park has joined in, there are even bigger time people. Diane Powell in Cherry is a CMS employee on the Director Level, and seems to have some sway because of being in the public sector. But she also decries gentrification from the porch of her $700,000 new construction bungalow. 

A.  The renderings I saw of the 42 story tower weren't beautiful (but were better than what they got instead).  42 stories then and there was a reasonable objection though, no?

B.  Faison is primarily responsible, IMO.

C.  She may be a hypocrite on gentrification but a beautiful new bungalow doesn't negatively impact the neighborhood the way this project might (nor does it change the character of the neighborhood much).

Again, I support but generally UP is on the side of preserving neighborhoods and holding developers accountable.  Cherry residents should speak up if they want this built.

 

[JorgiPorgi]

15 minutes ago, JBS said:

A.  The renderings I saw of the 42 story tower weren't beautiful (but were better than what they got instead).  42 stories then and there was a reasonable objection though, no?

B.  Faison is primarily responsible, IMO.

C.  She may be a hypocrite on gentrification but a beautiful new bungalow doesn't negatively impact the neighborhood the way this project might (nor does it change the character of the neighborhood much).

Again, I support but generally UP is on the side of preserving neighborhoods and holding developers accountable.  Cherry residents should speak up if they want this built.

 

I really don’t get your angle, or the Cherry neighborhood’s for that matter. There is so much development nearby with CPCC, midtown, and Novant’s campus which also has towers. I really do not get how this tower, which has a great design, could negatively impact the Cherry Neighborhood.  They aren’t tearing down old historic houses to build it either. If you love that close to the city center, you have to expect some such development to happen. 

[Guest]

A.  The renderings I saw of the 42 story tower weren't beautiful (but were better than what they got instead).  42 stories then and there was a reasonable objection though, no?

B.  Faison is primarily responsible, IMO.

C.  She may be a hypocrite on gentrification but a beautiful new bungalow doesn't negatively impact the neighborhood the way this project might (nor does it change the character of the neighborhood much).

Again, I support but generally UP is on the side of preserving neighborhoods and holding developers accountable.  Cherry residents should speak up if they want this built.

 

Faisons plan was downscaled by the neighborhood out of the profit margin they were comfortable with. How’s that their fault. Seemed like a reasonable, high quality and attractive project to me.

 

Also: here’s the original Arlington, pretty good for Charlotte who didn’t have a single residential tower over 12 floors.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[deleted]

55 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Faisons plan was downscaled by the neighborhood out of the profit margin they were comfortable with. How’s that their fault. Seemed like a reasonable, high quality and attractive project to me.

 

Also: here’s the original Arlington, pretty good for Charlotte who didn’t have a single residential tower over 12 floors.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We'll agree to disagree.  Not a fan of the top or the bottom.  Regarding Faison, the neighborhood has a right to push for the best design, he agreed to it and received city approval.  He underestimated construction costs AFTER demolishing a block of buildings.  How is that not his fault?

1 hour ago, JorgiPorgi said:

I really don’t get your angle, or the Cherry neighborhood’s for that matter. There is so much development nearby with CPCC, midtown, and Novant’s campus which also has towers. I really do not get how this tower, which has a great design, could negatively impact the Cherry Neighborhood.  They aren’t tearing down old historic houses to build it either. If you love that close to the city center, you have to expect some such development to happen. 

Well, I said twice here and many times previously that I support the project.  My angle is that the local residents most impacted by the project should have a say.  Is that really controversial?

[Cadi40]

The residents near the project do have a say, In my opinion it’s an annoying opinion, But nevertheless they do have a say. 

[Victor28204]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:26 PM, tozmervo said:

Traffic plateaus are usually a good alternative to speed bumps. The foot print of entire intersections can be raised up. Fire Departments are usually more OK with those (see: raised crosswalk in front of Latta Arcade)

So, I went to this meeting. Larken Egleston of the city council was there and said that after speaking with his colleagues on the council, he is fairly confident that the 20 story building will be approved. There were a few suggestions on traffic control, like traffic plateaus as an option. They plan on doing a traffic study in the neighborhood to see what sort of impact there will be and what steps should be taken to mitigate cut throughs. The main concern is that people who currently cut through the neighborhood do not follow the traffic laws by speeding, not stopping for stop signs, and general aggressive driving to bypass traffic on Kings. Hopefully the main takeaway will be for a police presence in the neighborhood to start writing tickets for those who speed and blow through stop signs. The one thing that may also add traffic to the general vicinity in the next couple years is the proposed Atrium upfit at CMC main (1 billion dollars in meck county for various facilities.) I thought the meeting was generally positive.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Larken is terriffic. Young, active and engaged. I’ve liked every encounter I’ve had with him. 

Really glad this tower appears to be a go. Should be a watershed for continued development in the area. 

[go_vertical]

Once this sets a precedent for the area then any future projects with height should progress through the whole approval process without too many issues right? 

[Guest]

Can EVERYONE do me a big favor and email in favor of this project.  These guys are sharing missinformation. I challenge them to PROVE their TRIPLE TRAFFIC claim

[Sigma]

33 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Can EVERYONE do me a big favor and email in favor of this project.  These guys are sharing missinformation. I challenge them to PROVE their TRIPLE TRAFFIC claim

It really bugs me how the NIMBYs continue to state "tripling of traffic".  That stat is based on applying the increase amount of traffic to Baldwin Ave., not 3rd or 4th Street.  What a scam.

[cjd5050]

52 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Can EVERYONE do me a big favor and email in favor of this project.  These guys are sharing missinformation. I challenge them to PROVE their TRIPLE TRAFFIC claim

Can someone paste an outline of what they are sharing?  I'll email a revised version.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Can someone paste an outline of what they are sharing?  I'll email a revised version.

Mine was just basically like "hey, i realized I wrote an article imploring others to email you guys, but never emailed myself. here's my article, yada yada. Its interesting to see the gentry decry gentrification from their porches of their million dollar homes, blah blah." 

[J-Rob]

^^  I just emailed them for a second time, and this is what I said.  I was in a rush though, so it probably could have been polished and refined more...

"I would like to take a second to share my support for the proposed NAI Midtown Tower.  The city spent millions upon millions of dollars on the streetcar, which has created little-to-no development along it's path.  This project is within 500 ft of the streetcar, which means it is one of the only developments to offer a true ROI on the streetcar.  While the streetcar's intended development is different from the light rail, the national environment is going to make it harder and harder for Charlotte to fund additional light-rail legs.  With this in mind, the city must utilize the streetcar as a means to easing traffic and creating community.  This project meets both of these goals in that it has office, hotel, and retail components within 500 feet of existing transit.

 

Additionally, this track of land is a perfect spot for density because it doesn't truly butt up against any neighborhoods.  It is is no man's land between 3rd and 4th street.  I 100% support this project, and furthermore think the city would be wasting it's streetcar investment not to support this project.  Where else should this high growth city put it's density if not along pre-built transit?

 

Thank you for your consideration"

Edited June 15, 2018 by J-Rob

[Windsurfer]

Awesome note. It has so much more character at 20+ floors than mid-height hospitals even.

 

 

[deleted]

Out of consideration to you all, I won't email .  I want this project and love the look of it but was persuaded by the MPHA propaganda (and believe neighbors should be able to object to zoning variances).  Under the circumstances, I'll be happy either way...  

[nicholas]

What does everyone think of this?  As a part-time Charlottean, I'd like to think I should be able to express my opinion about such matters.

 

"I would like to express my support for the proposed NAI Southern building at the intersection of 3rd St and Baldwin Ave.  The City of Charlotte spent tens of millions of dollars on the Gold Line, and as of yet has not seen any notable investment along its corridor.  This is a golden opportunity and should be treated as such. 

 

I realize that it is impossible to make everyone happy, but those who oppose this project seem to mainly do so on the basis of increased traffic and further gentrification.  First off, if we do not start promoting high-density developments adjacent to mass transit systems (such as NAI Southern's proposed building), residents will have little choice but to drive to car-centric redevelopments.  Not only will this simply continue to increase the amount of traffic on our already busy streets, it will also discourage citizens from using the mass transit system that we have spent countless millions of dollars on.  Secondly, opponents from nearby neighborhoods such as Myers Park don't have room to talk about gentrification because the average home value there is nearly $1,000,000.  Furthermore, I can't even see the 871' Bank of America building from Edgehill Park in Myers Park.  Almost no one will be able to see a 299' tall building along 4th St."

 

Thought I'd see what everyone else thinks, like if there's something I'm either forgetting or shouldn't have included.

[Vitamin_N]

According to the Agenda, "the rezoning is expected to pass easily... It appears that the neighborhoods will lose this battle. Down the line, many more are likely to come."

[CLT2014]

On 6/15/2018 at 1:24 PM, J-Rob said:

"I would like to take a second to share my support for the proposed NAI Midtown Tower.  The city spent millions upon millions of dollars on the streetcar, which has created little-to-no development along it's path.  This project is within 500 ft of the streetcar, which means it is one of the only developments to offer a true ROI on the streetcar.  While the streetcar's intended development is different from the light rail, the national environment is going to make it harder and harder for Charlotte to fund additional light-rail legs.  With this in mind, the city must utilize the streetcar as a means to easing traffic and creating community.  This project meets both of these goals in that it has office, hotel, and retail components within 500 feet of existing transit.

The streetcar is about as much use for regular commuting as a bus, so not sure how it will ease commuting anymore than the existing bus stops nearby. I won't be surprised if 98% of people that work in this building will drive. You might even get more people taking a scooter or bike share than waiting for a Gold Line train and crawling up Elizabeth. Since commuting on the Gold Line will likely be only utilized by the small percentage of people that live right off the line from the edge of Plaza Midwood to the Biddleville area, I think we have to come up with a better argument for neighbor's traffic concerns. Based off the likely tenants in a building like this, most employees will likely be making good income, already own a car, and not settle for a commuting method that is 2 times slower than driving. If this was directly off the Blue Line, the argument is there for how many people will take transit. For the Gold Line, it isn't proven for Novant so I'm not sure why it would all of a sudden change for a building likely to have employees even less likely to settle for a slow method of transit than hospital workers. 

UNCC to Novant
Drive: Right now at 8:30AM, UNCC to Novant Hospital is estimated at a 24 minute drive. 
Transit: UNCC to Novant Hospital taking the Blue Line and the existing Gold Line (50 minutes (33 mins Blue Line UNCC to Uptown, 6 minute connection, 11 minute Gold Line)

Drive: Right now at 8:30AM, New Bern to Novant Hospital is estimated at a 11 minute drive.
Transit: New Bern to Novant Hospital taking the Blue Line and the existing Gold Line (30 minutes (11 mins Blue Line New Bern to Uptown, 8 minute connection, 11 minute Gold Line)

These inefficient connection times and limitations of speed on the Gold Line are why ridership hasn't been super strong with Novant employees and why it won't be much better with a new office tower nearby either. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by CLT2014

[J-Rob]

^I see your point, but would make two counter-arguments:

1. The developer stated they need the rezoning to market to high-profile tenants that will want a view of the skyline.  I take from that there will also be high salaries involved, which leads me to think well paid millenials that want to live in Uptown can hop on the street car and ride down Trade/Elizabeth to this property.

2. While neat, we all know the current trolley cars are unreliable and slow.  By the time this development is complete, the streetcar route will be extended and new state-of-the-art streetcars will be utilized.  Add to that the fact that we have heard speculation that Trade will become the next hotspot route for development, particularly as Gateway Stations starts being developed, and that will lead to even more residential properties along the Gold Line.  For instance, Northwood Ravin is developing 500 apartments where the Polk building currently is, which will be less than a 15 minute ride to the NAI development.

In summary, I can see where you are coming from today, but much should change along the Gold Line in the two years it will take to finish the NAI development.  Obviously the developer sees the Gold Line potential or they wouldn't be marketing their proximity to it.

Edited June 18, 2018 by J-Rob

[CLT2014]

Great points! Hopefully this can be articulated to the community. 

[SouthEndCLT811]