Elizabeth Projects (7th St, Elizabeth Ave, etc)

[Bat'leth]

The rumor that I've heard in the neighborhood is that Crescent Communities is interested in taking over the project at 7th St & Caswell Rd. I think a great majority in the neighborhood is ready to see something built there

[Synopsis101]

Ahhh, anyone but Crescent.

[j-man]

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/02/22/crescent-communities-proposes-rezoning-high.html

[KJHburg]

Hmmm this is going to be a battle royale with the Elizabeth neighborhood association I am sure.  Remember they fought the NAI tower on Providence and 3rd along with Cherry HOA.   Someone get out the popcorn.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Hmmm this is going to be a battle royale with the Elizabeth neighborhood association I am sure.  Remember they fought the NAI tower on Providence and 3rd along with Cherry HOA.   Someone get out the popcorn.  

oh yea man, I've been gearing up to watch this battle! They will regret killing Faison

[CLTProductions]

On 2/19/2019 at 6:21 PM, Synopsis101 said:

Ahhh, anyone but Crescent.

Funny you say that

[KJHburg]

Unknown UPer awaiting the rezoning hearing on this new project in Elizabeth.  I think that is a microbrew. 

[Norm2]

I can't read the article.....can someone provide a little more insight?

[KJHburg]

24 minutes ago, norm21499 said:

I can't read the article.....can someone provide a little more insight?

this is the key part and the Faison apartment plan is dead.  No residential just office and retail not sure if the neighborhood will like this better or not but they fought and fought Faison. 

""Charlotte-based Crescent Communities this month filed a rezoning request for a 1.7-acre site at the corner of East Seventh Street and North Caswell Road to build up to 105,000 square feet of office and retail space. Faison, the current landowner, went through two rezonings, multiple public hearings and several revisions before gaining rezoning approval in summer 2016 for a plan that would bring apartments and some ground-floor commercial space to the site. ""

[sakami]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

this is the key part and the Faison apartment plan is dead.  No residential just office and retail not sure if the neighborhood will like this better or not but they fought and fought Faison. 

""Charlotte-based Crescent Communities this month filed a rezoning request for a 1.7-acre site at the corner of East Seventh Street and North Caswell Road to build up to 105,000 square feet of office and retail space. Faison, the current landowner, went through two rezonings, multiple public hearings and several revisions before gaining rezoning approval in summer 2016 for a plan that would bring apartments and some ground-floor commercial space to the site. ""

My biggest concerns as a neighbor relate to the ingress and egress of cars into the lot and what the real opportunity for retail is. Are we talking restaurant or gym? The height is not as big a deal for me. But I’m sure 65’ will send neighbors through the roof. 

As relates to this proposed rezoning will Creacent have to work with the ECA or because it’s a new zoning not have to deal with community input? I can’t remember how the zoning changes shook out.  

 

 

 

[DEnd]

22 minutes ago, sakami said:

My biggest concerns as a neighbor relate to the ingress and egress of cars into the lot and what the real opportunity for retail is. Are we talking restaurant or gym? The height is not as big a deal for me. But I’m sure 65’ will send neighbors through the roof. 

As relates to this proposed rezoning will Creacent have to work with the ECA or because it’s a new zoning not have to deal with community input? I can’t remember how the zoning changes shook out.  

I would assume the ingress and egress of cars would be via driveway.  I fail to see how that is concerning at all.  And real opportunity for retail?  It's new construction, that means national chains and there is a reason there really isn't a huge presence of them there already, adding some token amount of office space isn't going to attract any new retailers.  I used to work at a restaurant and we spent years studying a new territory before we expanded into it and we were still 5-10 years ahead of our competitors.  So believe me when I tell you that retail follows heads in beds.  Want quality restaurants instead of seedy college frat bars or bars in general?  Then you have to increase the population density of the area.

[southslider]

Despite the creation of an urban, pedestrian-oriented area plan, former Councilwoman Kinsey nixed creating a PED overlay for E 7th St similar to Central Ave. To this day, the latter has seen abundant urban infill and adaptive reuse by right, while the former slowly transforms via conditional rezoning plans painfully negotiated case by case.

[sakami]

7 hours ago, DEnd said:

I would assume the ingress and egress of cars would be via driveway.  I fail to see how that is concerning at all.  And real opportunity for retail?  It's new construction, that means national chains and there is a reason there really isn't a huge presence of them there already, adding some token amount of office space isn't going to attract any new retailers.  I used to work at a restaurant and we spent years studying a new territory before we expanded into it and we were still 5-10 years ahead of our competitors.  So believe me when I tell you that retail follows heads in beds.  Want quality restaurants instead of seedy college frat bars or bars in general?  Then you have to increase the population density of the area.

Have you been through that intersection as of late? If a lot of new cars are trying to leave the parking from the lot on  Caswell and turn left on Caswell heading toward 7th St it will be a sh*tshow of accidents on a regular basis. There is already constant confusion with the reversible lanes in the morning and afternoon SO my concern is how they plan to get cars out of there safely. 7th St is controlled by the state and not the city and they have indicated they don’t want to do anything that would ever slow down traffic on that street so a new traffic light somewhere is out of the question. 

I’m confused about your comment about beds in heads. I don’t remember complaining about having residential there before, and I’m not bothered by office at all. If you read the article you saw they are filing for retail of up to 23,000 sq ft so there is an opportunity for something there. But I don’t trust Crescent. A seedy bar would be preferred to a Gold’s Gym. 

[CLT2014]

Watch it becomes Novant offices with a Novant clinic on the ground floor and a Novant cafeteria.

[SgtCampsalot]

With crescent at the helm I expect a sub-par-to-par effort at good urban design. Crescent PR team will exclaim "Urbanist innovation!" ECA will put up a big fight but ultimately will approve an eventual compromise that will be nowhere as good as the Faison project

Edited February 23, 2019 by SgtCampsalot

[KJHburg]

I do think most of the offices will doctors office and very small professional offices no big office users here.  Retail will probably trend towards national chains but there are already some in the area anyway.  Or a high end restaurant or bar.  No seedy bars can afford new space like this.  any main entrance to the parking area would be on Caswell  I would think to give access to the traffic  light but not sure.  

Edited February 23, 2019 by KJHburg

[JacksonH]

6 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

With crescent at the helm I expect a sub-par-to-par effort at good urban design. Crescent PR team will exclaim "Urbanist innovation!" ECA will put up a big fight but ultimately will approve an eventual compromise that will be nowhere as good as the Faison project

This is really, really disappointing.  I fail to see how having office space instead of residential space would make for less of a traffic problem.  1000 sq feet of office space would typically have several employees, whereas 1000 sq. feet of residential means one or two people.  And people working in those offices would most likely not be from the neighborhood, so they'd be driving there, whereas residents in the previously-proposed dwellings would likely have chosen that neighborhood due to proximity to their jobs, which is likely Uptown, which they could access via the Gold Line.  So having apartments or condos, any way you look at it, would mean fewer cars versus offices.  Also, those office workers would not be around in the evenings or on the weekend, so any kind of ground-floor retail that develops from this Crescent deal would have to take that into account.  More cars during the week and a less vibrant atmosphere at night and during the weekend, and less use of the Gold Line.   So far it sounds like a loser compared to what Faison proposed.  And I'm worried that Crescent's design is nowhere near as nice as what the elegant Faison rendering envisioned.  It seems to me like ECA shot themselves in the foot.  They gave up an opportunity for something exceptional in their neighborhood.

Edited February 23, 2019 by JacksonH

[asthasr]

16 hours ago, JacksonH said:

1000 sq feet of office space would typically have several employees, whereas 1000 sq. feet of residential means one or two people.  And people working in those offices would most likely not be from the neighborhood, so they'd be driving there, whereas residents in the previously-proposed dwellings would likely have chosen that neighborhood due to proximity to their jobs, which is likely Uptown, which they could access via the Gold Line.  So having apartments or condos, any way you look at it, would mean fewer cars versus offices.

Normal people who grew up in the era of automobile romanticism aren't conditioned to think about it like this. Driving to work is an inevitability. Driving on errands is an inevitability. They see a household as an inevitable traffic source and usually don't think about offices as sources of traffic even though they "collect" trips from many household nodes.

[KJHburg]

new Novant medical office building and garage and the Draper apartments along Randolph a little further down today. 

[KJHburg]

Drive by the site of the proposed office building in Elizabeth and Langston  apartments .   Today. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

Novant medical office building and parking deck and Draper apartments (last photo) along Randolph Elizabeth side.

[nicholas]

Those apartments actually don't look bad.  Doesn't look like any retail though which is a bummer.

[J-Rob]

1 hour ago, nicholas said:

Those apartments actually don't look bad.  Doesn't look like any retail though which is a bummer.

Retail probably doesn't make sense here.  The area is nearly 100% residential and medical office buildings.   No foot traffic at all.

[sakami]

From the neighborhood listserve:

As the potential buyer, Crescent Communities approached the ECA in fourth quarter 2018 to discuss a new rezoning.  Crescent Communities is on fast track to rezone this property.  After many meetings and interviews with the ECA Real Estate and Zoning Committee and various key stakeholders throughout Elizabeth, Crescent Communities is now seeking rezoning to build up to 105,000 square feet of office and retail space.  Crescent would work alongside Asana Partners to hand-select appropriate retailers for the first floor.  Asana Partners owns the properties across the street from the site (e.g., Stanley, Crunkleton, Starbucks, Dollar General, Burn, Sandwich Max, etc.).  There would be no residential component to this project.

[atlrvr]

fast track

office and retail

no residential

sandwich max