Elizabeth Projects (7th St, Elizabeth Ave, etc)

[dubone]

i'm glad this is leased up now, but it has been done construction for half a year... is the slow leasing a bad sign for this district?

[dubone]

do any of you guys know which building or location might be expected next? will he continue on the block between travis and torrence (where cpcc's parking lot is?) or possibly the parking lot at the corner of hawthorne? if he goes with a small lot, he could possibly fill in the small gap next to the new NoFo.

EDIT: i guess the news release from a few weeks ago implies that Whole Foods at Hawthorne/4th/Elizabeth will be next.

[atlrvr]

There are several things brewing.....

The building on the same block (on the other side of the yellow house) will be built as soon as an anchor office tenant is signed.

The Whole Foods/Movie Theatre will start early next year regardless.

And the building where NoFo had a temporary location at Hawthorne and 5th will be demolished soon for a new medical office building.

The first apartments should also be started sometime next year.

The CPCC parking deck on 4th will likely begin this winter.

[dubone]

one thing i noticed when looking at the aerial shots from virtual earth, and what you mentioned just now... they are actually demolishing quite a few old buildings. Does anyone think this will hurt the charm of the streetscape? Also, where on the siteplan, 1523 Eliz shows as smaller-scale storefronts, but ended up being a larger scale building. While i like the building and stuff, it is not of the scale i was expecting of this corridor, and it appears that many of the others will be even larger scale.

http://www.grubbproperties.com/retail/inde...n&pid=44&sid=28

http://virtualearth.msn.com/default.aspx?c...le=h&lvl=18&v=1

i love what grubb is doing in principle, but i just hope it doesn't become too sterile.

[atlrvr]

If you notice....Grubb didn't build 1523 flush with 1535 (the Carpe Diem building).....this is to make the streetscape/facades look more varied and organic....I think Appatone posted this earlier.

What most people don't have in their mind is how much larger scale the whole area will be, perhaps because in Charlotte infill has consisted of 2-4 story buildings like we have have Southend and NoDa. The 1523 building looks fairly tall now for the area, but in reality will be one of the shortest buildings there. The entire area will feel much more overwhelming than it does now.

[A2]

If you notice....Grubb didn't build 1523 flush with 1535 (the Carpe Diem building).....this is to make the streetscape/facades look more varied and organic....I think Appatone posted this earlier.

What most people don't have in their mind is how much larger scale the whole area will be, perhaps because in Charlotte infill has consisted of 2-4 story buildings like we have have Southend and NoDa.

Edited August 31, 2005 by A219724

[atlrvr]

11 story apartment building along 5th.

[A2]

11 story apartment building along 5th.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thx.....

B)

A2

[appatone]

According to the last thing I've heard a building should go up on the other side of the yellow house. That building should be larger in scale than 1523. You cna see that the lot is already clear. The new building will have three seperate facades which will break it up and make it look more like three seperate buildings. If memory serves the rendering for that building showed five floors. Another thing in addition to staggering facades is that grubb is working with different architecture firms with each building so each new building should have its own unique identity helping to add to the organic look.

As far as leasing, the more tenats that come the more activity we will see in the area which will lead other tenants to want to join on. Right now you only really have a few places (nofo, carpe, and a few others that have been there for a while) the addition of these three tenants will automatically make the street front more alive. I think this is just the beginnig and that this development will increase in momentum as more gets built.

EDIT: actually if you look at my post on pg 2 the building I am talking about is number 5 on that list.

Edited September 1, 2005 by appatone

[dubone]

The new building will have three seperate facades which will break it up and make it look more like three seperate buildings.  If memory serves the rendering for that building showed five floors.  Another thing in addition to staggering facades is that grubb is working with different architecture firms with each building so each new building should have its own unique identity helping to add to the organic look.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the staggered setbacks, different architects, and the different facades will all help significantly. I'm certain that the end product will look really awesome and make the street an incredible asset for charlotte. My only concern is that as each of these projects starts, are they only saving a fraction of the old buildings and facades that were there a few years ago. Even the lot that you are referring to on the west side of the yellow house had buildings a few years ago. I don't think many of them were all that attractive, so i'm not saying that.... i'm just worried that the end product will look typical of charlotte, really cool/nice brand new density, but sterilized with all but a few traces of the older streetscape torn down.

Appatone, do you know how many older buildings will remain? it is hard to tell from the siteplan in some cases.

[appatone]

Not sure but apparently 5% of the land owned by Grubb is considered historic and will be preserved. Grubb also doesn't own all of the property. I know that The Double Door won't be touched and that Anderson's and and the Visulite are both getting a makeover and will be preserved. I believe all of the historic homes will be saved and built around in a way to ensure that no development company will later come around and raze them for a new project. So you will have these old homes peeking out in between these new buildings which is quite cool. Athens is dust but I think that is CPCC's doing and not Grubb. Other than that I'm not sure, I haven't really heard much since that last meeting Grubb gave at CPCC. However, they did say that they were always happy to talk about the project if an interested group were to host them (In the previous case it was the AIAS of CPCC). It would be cool if Grubb could enlighten the forum sometime! Perhaps we could send an email? They had lots of renderings I know everyone here would love.

[dubone]

i actually took a trip down elizabeth today as i hadn't been thru there in a little while... and i actually change my position... wipe that crap out . the ones that are definitely being saved, like visualite, nofo, matilda's, carpe diem and the two houses are all definitely worth saving. With the exception of a few others that i'm not sure of (like the underlying/pre-stucco part of the cuisine malaya and a few others), most of the buildings are really low-quality 70s buildings.

I had it in my memory that many of those older urban buildings were of better design, but after looking at them individually today, i think in every case but the few mentioned above, a high-quality 21st century building will be far superior.

[appatone]

This may be old news but in March Grubb put a rezoning application in for the Whole Foods site. You can check out the site plan.Grubb Rezoning App.

Edited September 2, 2005 by appatone

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12803503.htm

There will be a bond referendum that includes $33m for the central CPCC campus:

[dubone]

Does the sale of the apartments at Sterling Dilworth mean that Grubb will be raising capital in order to move forward with Sterling Elizabeth?

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/bus...th/12856631.htm

[graydog]

Does the sale of the apartments at Sterling Dilworth mean that Grubb will be raising capital in order to move forward with Sterling Elizabeth?

Not sure what you're asking. I do think SE could go condo though, if the market continues as it is. SE is a gorgeous building.

[atlrvr]

Dubone....I was wondering the same thing, though their next project is the Whole Foods and movie theatre....which will include condos or apts, though they haven't decided which......I was told that they were going to start the Sterling Elizabeth building next year....it really is a great looking building.

[appatone]

The BP on the Whole Foods lot is now closed and empty so that's a good sign.

[Norm2]

Is Burger King going to have to shut down as well for the grocery store and movie theater to fit, or will that remin open? I honestly like having a BK close to school, I like walking to it.

[dubone]

Is Burger King going to have to shut down as well for the grocery store and movie theater to fit, or will that remin open? I honestly like having a BK close to school, I like walking to it.

BK is definitely on the site for whole foods, but it is possible that they will lease on of the retail spots in the new buildings.

[Miesian Corners]

BK is moving to 4th St and will sorta be under the new parking garage for the movie theatre. Near where Old Dog clothing used to be.

[appatone]

Bad news kids...

I posted a question to Lawrence Toppman (the movie writer at the Observer) about the new Elizabeth Ave. movie theatre. This was the question and response.

Q.

I had heard that Eastern Federal was going to open a new indie/art house cinema on Elizabeth Ave in Grubb's new project. I was wondering if the acquisition of Eastern Federal's theatres by Regal will affect this new theatre and whether or not it will in fact be indie/art house.

Anonymous 10/11/05

A.

According to an official at Regal, the chain has no plans to build in this market at this time. Regal is considering the Elizabeth Avenue project but has not committed to it, and I wouldn't hold my breath. The company does seem committed to keeping the Manor healthy -- in fact, it hired a new booker this week to program art houses around the country -- but it's unlikely to build another art theater so close by.

Lawrence Toppman 10/11/05

[Norm2]

you know that really pisses me off.

[dubone]

i'm halfway wondering if Mr. Toppman is correct.... didn't they sign onto the project already?

he's probably right... but there also seems to be a possibility that he doesn't realize they already signed onto the project.

[ngp]

He says the Regal "official" mentioned an Elizabeth Ave location is under consideration, so there's no reason to think anything has changed. This Toppman guy is no more qualified to speculate than any of us here (probably less, actually), so it could still happen. Has a theater been officially confirmed for Epicenter? That will probably determine whether or not Regal will justify an additional location.

Personally, I don't think there's much of a market for another art house theater in Charlotte. A new multiplex with a dedicated art-house screen might work, though.

Edited October 12, 2005 by ngp