Elizabeth Projects (7th St, Elizabeth Ave, etc)

[archiham04]

I have heard that they are working with contractors to bring the price down a bit.

[KJHburg]

Could they not squeeze one more foot out of this proposed tower 20 stories 299 feet tall?   This is the NAI Realty proposed tower going through rezoning now between 3rd and 4th at Baldwin. 

http://ww.charmeck.org/Planning/Rezoning/2017/175-190/2017-177 site plan.pdf

[cjd5050]

8 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Could they not squeeze one more foot out of this proposed tower 20 stories 299 feet tall?   This is the NAI Realty proposed tower going through rezoning now between 3rd and 4th at Baldwin. 

http://ww.charmeck.org/Planning/Rezoning/2017/175-190/2017-177 site plan.pdf

That's an outstanding footprint.  

What I love most is this developer acting big and replacing a strip mall.  Those 9 blocks bound by 3rd, Charlottetown, Park and Hawthorne should replace every parking lot or set back building with something like this.  

[SgtCampsalot]

9 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Could they not squeeze one more foot out of this proposed tower 20 stories 299 feet tall?   This is the NAI Realty proposed tower going through rezoning now between 3rd and 4th at Baldwin. 

http://ww.charmeck.org/Planning/Rezoning/2017/175-190/2017-177 site plan.pdf

 

44 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

That's an outstanding footprint.  

What I love most is this developer acting big and replacing a strip mall.  Those 9 blocks bound by 3rd, Charlottetown, Park and Hawthorne should replace every parking lot or set back building with something like this.  

Sad to lose this corner commercial building, though. We'll never get that kind of form back.

[J-Rob]

9 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Could they not squeeze one more foot out of this proposed tower 20 stories 299 feet tall? 

LOL.  Seriously.  I say go for 2 feet to get to 301.  If an UPer gets on top and adds a two foot stack of bricks, does that count?

[CLT2014]

12 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

 

Sad to lose this corner commercial building, though. We'll never get that kind of form back.

That commercial buildings isn't part of the project. The tower would be on the other corner on Baldwin where the PPG paint and Papa John's strip mall is. It would also demolish the Novant Rehabilitation Center as well. 

The strip mall and rehabilitation center both have parking lots facing the streets and are set back, so this will be a nice connectivity addition in that part of town. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by CLT2014

[jtmonk]

12 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

 

Sad to lose this corner commercial building, though. We'll never get that kind of form back.

This building isn't going on that lot so that building should be safe for now.  haha thanks CLT2014, posted at the same time

Edited February 8, 2018 by jtmonk

[archiham04]

This building addresses the street decently.  I am worried however, about the trend in this neighborhood in where developers are forcing a non-urban ground level.  A truly urban walkable resilient streetscape needs occupy-able space at sidewalk level.  Only one out of four sections illustrates this. 

these     recently     built     projects   similarly   either fail to  address the street at all, or ignore a future of possible strollable sidewalk-accessible retail.

 

[SgtCampsalot]

26 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

This building addresses the street decently.  I am worried however, about the trend in this neighborhood in where developers are forcing a non-urban ground level.  A truly urban walkable resilient streetscape needs occupy-able space at sidewalk level.  Only one out of four sections illustrates this. 

these     recently     built     projects   similarly   either fail to  address the street at all, or ignore a future of possible strollable sidewalk-accessible retail.

 

Developers see Elizabeth and Midtown as an extension of South Charlotte (for ease, everything in the southern wedge, south of Uptown, with general affluence); meaning they think about it in the older era of development; suburban-urban in nature. At least that's how I've always seen it. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by SgtCampsalot

[cjd5050]

10 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Developers see Elizabeth and Midtown as an extension of South Charlotte (for ease, everything in the southern wedge, south of Uptown, with general affluence); meaning they think about it in the older era of development; suburban-urban in nature. At least that's how I've always seen it. 

I see it more as 3rd > Providence and to some extent Randolph Rd are major arteries into the 'South Charlotte Wedge' and traffic is never going to be calm enough for these roads to be something that would be  successful as a pedestrian friendly area.    Add in a two massive employment centers of Presbyterian and CMC on either side of these arteries, I think it's to make sacrifices.    

[SgtCampsalot]

17 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I see it more as 3rd > Providence and to some extent Randolph Rd are major arteries into the 'South Charlotte Wedge' and traffic is never going to be calm enough for these roads to be something that would be  successful as a pedestrian friendly area.    Add in a two massive employment centers of Presbyterian and CMC on either side of these arteries, I think it's to make sacrifices.    

I think that's a more precise assessment. Those arteries will always need to be auto-friendly.

[jtmonk]

1 hour ago, archiham04 said:

This building addresses the street decently.  I am worried however, about the trend in this neighborhood in where developers are forcing a non-urban ground level.  A truly urban walkable resilient streetscape needs occupy-able space at sidewalk level.  Only one out of four sections illustrates this. 

these     recently     built     projects   similarly   either fail to  address the street at all, or ignore a future of possible strollable sidewalk-accessible retail.

 

I get what you are saying about the other projects, but for this project I think it addresses the sidewalk level pretty well considering the location.  Also don't forget that this building will only face two streets, 3rd Street and Baldwin Ave, it doesn't go all the way back to Queen and the 4th Street section is for future development so that side still has hope as well.  As for the other buildings you are talking about I think some of those will be redeveloped as this section of town begins to boom a little more, give it time. 

[videtur quam contuor]

HA!

That last one has an emergency exit door facing the street and the exit walk goes from the door for five feet and then instead of extending another ten feet to the street sidewalk it turns 90º left and then to the parking driveway. Never touches public land.

1 hour ago, archiham04 said:

This building addresses the street decently.  I am worried however, about the trend in this neighborhood in where developers are forcing a non-urban ground level.  A truly urban walkable resilient streetscape needs occupy-able space at sidewalk level.  Only one out of four sections illustrates this. 

these     recently     built     projects   similarly   either fail to  address the street at all, or ignore a future of possible strollable sidewalk-accessible retail.

 

 

[cjd5050]

33 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

I think that's a more precise assessment. Those arteries will always need to be auto-friendly.

Unless they run light rail right down Providence.  

A boy can dream right?

[DMann]

under Providence, dream big!

[EllAyyDub]

Anyone here know what is happening on the corner of Pecan & Shenandoah?  Looks like an office building is being renovated but I haven't seen any news.

[sakami]

This is the current rendering (pulled out of a listserve email) of the Pulte townhomes heading to the old Martha Washington apartment site. 124 units 20-24' wide and 4 stories tall.  This property is already zoned R-22 so no rezoning or project approval needed. Based on the density in the rendering, and listserve comments, it doesn't appear they plan to try and save the huge oaks that are all over the property. So sad to see them go. 

[tozmervo]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 11:19 AM, sakami said:

This is the current rendering (pulled out of a listserve email) of the Pulte townhomes heading to the old Martha Washington apartment site. 124 units 20-24' wide and 4 stories tall.  This property is already zoned R-22 so no rezoning or project approval needed. Based on the density in the rendering, and listserve comments, it doesn't appear they plan to try and save the huge oaks that are all over the property. So sad to see them go. 

This prompted me to look up the lifespan of Willow Oaks... the search turned up an archived UP thread. https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/30437-death-to-the-willow-oak/

[Scribe]

Grubb is looking for "Sr Development-Construction Accountant/Corporate Controller" -- http://grubbproperties.applicantstack.com/x/detail/a2252gice5m1

I really hope this is a sign that they are preparing to actually do something useful with the land that they've been sitting on for 10+ years...

[Guest]

Grubb is looking for "Sr Development-Construction Accountant/Corporate Controller" -- http://grubbproperties.applicantstack.com/x/detail/a2252gice5m1
I really hope this is a sign that they are preparing to actually do something useful with the land that they've been sitting on for 10+ years... [emoji4]

They told me they were working on their future development plan with Novant last I spoke with them, I’ll follow up with them tomorrow.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[southslider]

On 2/8/2018 at 10:23 AM, SgtCampsalot said:

I think that's a more precise assessment. Those arteries will always need to be auto-friendly.

So why bother with urban form on Kenilworth or Kings?  More than just Providence and Randolph connect Uptown to South Charlotte.

[SgtCampsalot]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

So why bother with urban form on Kenilworth or Kings?  More than just Providence and Randolph connect Uptown to South Charlotte.

It's tricky,...They DO have a bus line, so that helps, and also building in Dilworth makes sense, since it is a Traditional Neighborhood Development already, though I don't feel urban form needs to go past Dilworth.  Now, Providence and Randolph are unique: no traditional urban form exists there. It kind of does before the Queens-Queens intersection, but that is negated by the traffic sewer. 

But in general, all of these places are different than every other thoroughfare of similar scale. They feed into the most affluent (thus car-hungry, Uptown-commuting) parts of Charlotte, so are the most likely to have the least interest in transit, especially since no rail can do down them (though BRT would be great).

Now, all suburbs do need more incremental, fine-grained urban form: an accessory dwelling in garages, a corner store, or small-scale mixed-use around existing activity centers. But doing it intensely is too heavy an approach for these areas.

TL;DR: It doesn't make as much sense to intensely focus urban form development along the South Charlotte corridors, because the broader purposes (sustainability, a change in paradigm) can't thrive as much there compared to other parts of town.

Edited February 21, 2018 by SgtCampsalot

[southslider]

Urbanism also works with park-once-then-walk-around purchasing power from nearby drive-access areas of affluence. That's why Metropolitan is successful and South Park is urbanizing. In fact, the pro forma for ground-floor retail in a truly mixed-use development is likely easiest in the South Wedge, compared to other areas around town. Hybrid urban form can balance walk-friendly edges with drive-access parking.  The developers that get this will be rewarded more repeat visitors who actually enjoy shopping and eating at a uniquely designed place.

[SgtCampsalot]

2 minutes ago, southslider said:

Urbanism also works with park-once-then-walk-around purchasing power from nearby drive-access areas of affluence. That's why Metropolitan is successful and South Park is urbanizing. In fact, the pro forma for ground-floor retail in a truly mixed-use development is likely easiest in the South Wedge, compared to other areas around town. Hybrid urban form can balance walk-friendly edges with drive-access parking.  The developers that get this will be rewarded more repeat visitors who actually enjoy shopping and eating at a uniquely designed place.

I agree. I simply disagree in that these places should be built in such a way.

The Metropolitan is a necessary evil, because it's here, and it integrated into the greenway, in a once rough stretch, but it is awful. Baxter/Birkdale Villages are great, but exemplify the old-school New Urbanism approach long after New Urbanism's principals moved on from  these large-scale projects.

TL;DR: The (functional, sustainable) future is in more fine-grained approaches. Lots more, smaller, nodes of walkable activity do it better. When the "market" comes around to that is foggy.

[KJHburg]

I still EY could be the tenant for their existing office in Bank of America Corp center in this new 3rd St tower. Here's why take a look at this tower in Cleveland and it was also designed by Gensler. Also has a hotel next door.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_%26_Young_Tower_(Cleveland)   Do you think this looks like the tower proposed in Elizabeth?  It does to me! 

http://charlottenc.gov/planning/Rezoning/RezoningPetitions/2017Petitions/Pages/2017-177.aspx

I know it was mentioned on UP and in the Business Journal that EY was looking at locating their new innovation center at the RailYard but this could be for their existing office which according to the Business Journal has 944 employees currently in Charlotte. I am sure some work on site in some of their customers offices but that is still a lot of people.  In a building where the owner Bank of America is pushing other tenants out.    Just educated speculation on my part. 

Page 61 of the community report has the rendering of the new tower in Charlotte http://ww.charmeck.org/Planning/Rezoning/2017/175-190/2017-177 community report.pdf   another photo of the Cleveland EY Tower  http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/10/flats_east_bank_developers_ref.html

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by KJHburg