Hartford Negativity

[paul514]

Very nicely put in both posts Jay.

I noticed that when I started college, there is alot you do not know about where you are from until you leave it.

And I am certainly not bashing Hartford, I wouldnt be on this board if I hated it and thought it was vile

[JayHass]

I definately agree with your statement. Before I went away to college my mentality was that there was no other alternative to the suburbs and urban living in Hartford didn't even enter my mind. I moved to for 4 years Vancouver Canada and saw the benefits of urban living by living in a city. Now, when I'm in the city I tend to look at places and buildings for the potential they offer, and what needs to be done to make the overall city more attractive and successful. I think this comes from having lived in a city where urban planning is taken seriously and has had wonderful results.

Though at the same time part of me does get frustrated when I see how slow the progress in Hartford is and how its definately a blighted and often I cannot help but think how crappy/dirty/poor looking Hartford is compared to Vancouver. Though I do believe the city is going in the right direction, I feel that the efforts seem to be too little to improve the city's reputation. The city needs to be bold and more agressive in its efforts to turn the city around.

[HartfordTycoon]

I"m not sure what you are saying. Ghetto is ghetto, and there is a certain mindset in that environment. I know, I grew up in one.

Fair enough...what neighborhood/section do you live in? I'd like to spend some time there...perhaps some pictures for the board.

[blink55184]

Everyone can find beauty in the neighborhood we grew up in..

Wasn't that our main point and goal in childhood....?

[HartfordTycoon]

Everyone can find beauty in the neighborhood we grew up in..

Wasn't that our main point and goal in childhood....?

[blink55184]

but how does holding and purpetuating that point of view help solve anything as far as bridging the cultural and economic divides that seperate us all?

[HartfordTycoon]

Well if that is why you are here, then it doesn't solve anything.

I am not here for that, I am here for discussion

[Whaler0718]

You dont have to get so defensive.

Your opinion of the inner city is as legitimate as mine, I was just sharing mine.

You live there, I live 5 minutes away. That 5 minutes must shake up alot of views.

It is not like us "suburbanites" are from some gated community light years away.

I have friend in Hartford, I hang out there, I go downtown, I visit family there.

I have lived in various parts of two other cities and find their ugliest parts safer and cleaner than Hartfords ugly.

And take my map with a grain of salt, its a generalization. Sure there are a few streets circled in UGLY that arent.

[HartfordTycoon]

I think this discussion is awesome b/c it demonstrates the opposing views of those from Hartford and those from the suburbs. The answer, as with most things, is probably somewhere in the middle: Hartford isn't as great as we city residents think and not as bad as suburbanites think.

Let me just share my perspective for a minute though, blink55184, because, while I currently live in Hartford, I'm originally from a pretty tony Fairfield County town.

The West End, I think, is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. There are some more run down streets, namely South Whitney. But on the whole, especially north of Farmington, the homes are as elegant and grand as ever, and many of the residents leave their windows open to reveal their beautifully appointed living rooms. I love to sit on my front porch on a summer night, sip a gin and tonic, and look up and down the street at children playing and couples walking their dogs. I experience a feeling of neighborhood I never had at my parents house, on a dead end street with a back porch. Not the same.

Of course, Farmington Avenue, with it's horrible-looking commercial spaces, needs some tarting up.

Now, I agree that Hartford has very rough spots. Albany Avenue is tough on the eyes. I think Whethersfield Avenue is too, and the northern part of Franklin Avenue as well. Then there are other areas, where the homes or buildings are stunning, but in disrepair. That's the effect of poverty--that's the effect of folks moving out. End of story. The thing that gets me is that if we just dropped a bomb on the suburbs and everybody had to move back into Hartford, they'd love it! The houses would get spruced up, crime would drop, the schools would improve. It's a Catch-22. Nobody wants to come in from the suburbs because the city is the way it is, which it is because everybody is in the suburbs.

Now, by everybody, I obviously mean the folks with money.

Anyway, I'm not actually proposing dropping said bomb, but I think folks in the burbs are missing out. Sure, you look at the numbers and think, no way, but try living here for a month and see what I mean. Now, do I do things differently here than at my parents? Of course. I'm pretty anal about security, and I'm more cautious than I'd like to be when it comes to walking at night. These are aspects of Hartford I want to change. That said, the more folks who come in from the suburbs and see the potential, the more the potential becomes reality.

I'm just sick and tired of the state abdicating its responsibility to the poor by isolating itself in suburbs. The ghetto mentality is a product of the state having concentrated all of its problems within Hartford's limits and allowing the region to pretend these problems are Hartford's alone. Meanwhile, the state gives Hartford 50% of its budget. But when somebody in Avon gets adicted to drugs, they don't rehab there, they come here. If the state had a structure that penalized sprawl and promoted city-living, Hartford would be a truly extraordinary place. Think of all the wealth and resources of the region, and concentrate them in the center; you would militate against all of Hartford's problems, from crime to schools, and in the process you would cut the costs of those problems. And, the best part is, hartford has fabulous housing stock, much of it in single or two-family homes that have a suburban feel (i.e., the West End). So the city can accomodate both those seeking the high-rise and those seeking their own home.

[blink55184]

I think this discussion is awesome b/c it demonstrates the opposing views of those from Hartford and those from the suburbs. The answer, as with most things, is probably somewhere in the middle: Hartford isn't as great as we city residents think and not as bad as suburbanites think.

[HartfordTycoon]

Absolutely.

I also agree with this. However, as of right now, these people are still in the burbs because the city does not and can not offer things that are in the suburbs.

(except for national concerts and events which you do not have to live in the city for)

They are just opinions, they are in no way counterproductive. I am not standing on the bulkely bridge with a sign scaring people away from Hartford. I am discussing my thoughts on an electronic forum...far from counterproductive.

It is actually productive, and could be even more productive if more and more people posted their thoughts and feelings here.

Maybe it would be beneficial for you to hear more suburban point of views and maybe take away a bit of the bias for your childhood street

[Whaler0718]

Retail followed the population out of the city when it fell in love with the automobile. But I think we should be able, in hindsight, to recognize that this level of sprawl is bad on so many levels. It's damaging to the environment, it kills open space, it creates traffic, it makes us sedentary, it decreases human interaction, it is hugely inefficient in providing services (police, sanitation, etc.).

Of course, the trend isn't over--MetLife will probably move to Bloomfield, ING is off to Windsor (thank you state of Connecticut for bonding that move) and others will follow. And they do so (1) because the land is cheaper and (2) (well almost the same reason) the parking is, too. The first reason is thanks to our backward property tax system and the second is thanks to preexisting suburbanization--people want to drive to work and park for free and go to the drive through at Dunkin Donuts rather than having to set foot on a sidewalk.

However, the people who want that existence--suburban life--are baby-boomers. The Courant's article on population growth (or lack thereof) this weekend bears this out. Connecticut's population is only growing because of immigrants. We're losing old people to the south and young people to other cities in the Northeast, i.e., Boston and New York. Young talent don't want to work in corporate office parks. So if this state wants to reverse the brain drain and keep young professionals in the state, it has to invest in its cities. And as it does so, the shops will crop up, the crime will drop, and even Blink might see that Hartford has a better quality of life than Canton.

Anyway, I wish more people would give Hartford a chance. It's treated me very well for the past four years and I look forward to staying here. I just can't stand malls--do people really still like them? Do they like driving everywhere?! It's such a horrible existence, the suburban life most of the state seems to like. I admit Hartford can't offer the alternative yet b/c you still have to go out to Westfarms to shop, but one day I hope that changes, and I hope Westfarms and Evergreen Walk and Buckland Hills all explode into millions of little pieces.

[blink55184]

and even Blink might see that Hartford has a better quality of life than Canton.

[Whaler0718]

I would much rather be in an urban environment than suburban.

I just got back from almost 5 years in Boston and would not have left if I still had enough money.

I agree with your logic but not your specific example.

I disagree that Canton has a lower quality of life than Hartford.

[blink55184]

the urban environment has more potential than the suburban, but right now it is true that the Hartford region has pushed most of its assets into the suburbs.

[HartfordTycoon]

Right now ... I agree with you. My point was to illustrate that if the trends I support develop, Hartford would have a better quality of life--the urban environment has more potential than the suburban, but right now it is true that the Hartford region has pushed most of its assets into the suburbs.

[JayHass]

Anyway, I wish more people would give Hartford a chance. It's treated me very well for the past four years and I look forward to staying here. I just can't stand malls--do people really still like them? Do they like driving everywhere?! It's such a horrible existence, the suburban life most of the state seems to like. I admit Hartford can't offer the alternative yet b/c you still have to go out to Westfarms to shop, but one day I hope that changes, and I hope Westfarms and Evergreen Walk and Buckland Hills all explode into millions of little pieces.

[HartfordTycoon]

Well seems the insults can go both ways. Thanks for telling me I have a horrible life.

I live on two acres of land, on a hilltop with wild turkey, deer, coyotes and foxes in my back yard - yet I"m 10 minutes from all Hartford has to offer, and 5 minutes too all Buckland has to offer and 5 minutes to downtown Manchester. If I go out of my back door, take a left into the woods, I have miles of walking trails. My neighbors all talk and meet up on warm summer nights and we have "get togethers" etc and are raising and/or planning family.

I LIKE landscaping my yard and gardening etc, I LIKE going on my back deck and watching humming birds feed, and listening to the wind in the trees.

All that for 180K 4 years ago.

I guess this guy doesn't know anything about inner city though and it would alter my life if I tried it. Nevermind that my family is from Brooklyn NY (I spent almost as much time there as a kid as in CT), my "brother" lives in Mid-town, and I grew up in what once were great neighborhoods in Waterbury center.

I like where I live as you guys do where you live, but the points I brought out about Hartford are valid. If they are not talked about - they will just go away right?

HartfordTycoon's pictures are nice. But they are not the norm for his area even by his own admission you have to drive through some "ghetto" to get there and it's "hidden". There are pockets of nice surrounded by "bad". Other cities have it the otherway.

Everyone keeps talking about the state doing this, the city doing that etc etc. I think that's the very problem! The government will never do it like private money or citizens at work...it's all politics when they do. Cities like Greenville SC, and Charlotte NC (Using them because they were brought up earlier) have very little if any "government" intrusion and their inner cities are BOOMING.

Why? They attract the families noted above that you good folks want to bring to Hartford which brings private investment in spades and families which all starts to snowball into a good thing. You can't paint some picture that Hartford is like Charlotte because it's not! I know I lived there!

Call it what it is, and figure out how to change it. I think it starts with community leadership and in the home. Why are these KIDS on the street at midnight causing trouble? Why don't people pick up their front yards and sidewalks even if it IS the "cities responisibility"? (I remember the Italian section of Wtby - everyone kept their part of the sidewalk and street clean and didn't wait for the city to do it for them, after all it was a reflection on THEIR home.) The city/state needs to step in with things like police support etc and possibly seed money for larger projects but it's up to the people to make the change and if they can't see that and keep looking to the capital building for the solution nothing will change.

/soapbox

Edit: I just thought of a scenario. Every year I go to the Riverfront for the 4th of July. Last year will be my last. Why? Well someone thought it would be good to have the local neighborhoods represented in the entertainment. Sounds great! Well, no - they seemed to have picked the "thug life" crowd and had a rap group up on stage doing their "thang". All I saw were families laid out on the grass with their kids playing games etc cringing at lyrics like "I'm gonna crack dat ass open like a cannalope...uh, yea" I was in SHOCK that this was supposed to be a family event. Not only that, they brough their "thug" crowd with them so we had a great old time and constantly saw the sneering and comments to the "white" (And "sellout" spanish and blacks who choose to not partake in such activities) people there for a good family event.

It was horrible. I took someone with me - a lady friend, and she was mortified. I say Marfuggi walking around and tried to get to him to voice my disgust but to no avail.

*I* know that that's not fully what the neighborhoods represent. Why not a church choir from the north end? Why not a Jazz ensemble from the West End? Why not a salsa band from the South end? Why not a university band from UHA or Trinity? Why? Why was the very life that's destroying Hartford invited and allowed to propagate.

This year? I'll be at MCC in Manchester for their family day event. I'm just tired of it and sick of "fighting" the tide.

[Whaler0718]

Sorry JayHass, I didn't mean to insult you (at least as much as I did):

(1) The area around Hartford is beautiful and one of Hartford's assets is that you can leave the city and be in the sticks so quickly. No doubt, even if Hartford were as terrific a place--as much of a hub--as HartfordTycoon and I dream of, many folks would still want to live near the woods and travel into town. That's great; it's having all of the commerce--the strip-mall sort of car-centric lifestyle--that I condemn. Manchester has a lovely downtown, and I hope it thrives, as it did so when Hartford thrived. People picked up milk and small stuff in Manchester and came into Hartford for the department stores and whatnot. Now they drive to Evergreen and Buckland. It's the Evergreens and Bucklands I hate! And the companies that locate in tobacco fields, destroying open space and demanding more pavement. The irony is that the woods you cherish would be helped by a vibrant Hartford because developers wouldn't need to mow down nature to put up big box stores.

(2) I agree that other cities, like Charlotte, are growing, in part, because the government has let the economy grow--but government inaction in the northeast is pretty much government action, i.e., actively not acting. We need that kind of government action; I think that's where we look to the city and to the state: to be pro-business and to end the ridiculous property-tax scheme. Those southern cities have large regional governments that look at regional goals, as opposed to our structure of government where 169 fiefdoms look out for themselves. In the long run, I promise that Day Hill Road in Windsor is a bad idea because it destroys Hartford, which makes people leave--and they often go to places like Charlotte. But in the short term, Day Hill Road businesses pay for Windsor children to go to school. Can't argue with that. So, before we have some old-fashioned government inaction, we need some government action to reverse the trend.

And why can't I see HartfordTycoon's pictures??

[MadVlad]

"I'm gonna crack dat ass open like a cannalope...uh, yea"

[HartfordTycoon]

Sorry JayHass, I didn't mean to insult you (at least as much as I did):

(1) The area around Hartford is beautiful and one of Hartford's assets is that you can leave the city and be in the sticks so quickly. No doubt, even if Hartford were as terrific a place--as much of a hub--as HartfordTycoon and I dream of, many folks would still want to live near the woods and travel into town. That's great; it's having all of the commerce--the strip-mall sort of car-centric lifestyle--that I condemn. Manchester has a lovely downtown, and I hope it thrives, as it did so when Hartford thrived. People picked up milk and small stuff in Manchester and came into Hartford for the department stores and whatnot. Now they drive to Evergreen and Buckland. It's the Evergreens and Bucklands I hate! And the companies that locate in tobacco fields, destroying open space and demanding more pavement. The irony is that the woods you cherish would be helped by a vibrant Hartford because developers wouldn't need to mow down nature to put up big box stores.

(2) I agree that other cities, like Charlotte, are growing, in part, because the government has let the economy grow--but government inaction in the northeast is pretty much government action, i.e., actively not acting. We need that kind of government action; I think that's where we look to the city and to the state: to be pro-business and to end the ridiculous property-tax scheme. Those southern cities have large regional governments that look at regional goals, as opposed to our structure of government where 169 fiefdoms look out for themselves. In the long run, I promise that Day Hill Road in Windsor is a bad idea because it destroys Hartford, which makes people leave--and they often go to places like Charlotte. But in the short term, Day Hill Road businesses pay for Windsor children to go to school. Can't argue with that. So, before we have some old-fashioned government inaction, we need some government action to reverse the trend.

And why can't I see HartfordTycoon's pictures??

[JayHass]

Sorry JayHass, I didn't mean to insult you (at least as much as I did)

[JayHass]

Sounds like a party......

[Luca Brasi]

One thing to keep in mind is that in many other cities nationwide, "Hartford" would include West Hartford, East Hartford, Wetherfield, etc. and no one has a problem living in those towns. The footprint of Hartford is so small, it is entirely urbanized. You could still live in "St Louis" while residing 1/2 hour from downtown so in that sense, Hartford gets a bad rap.

That being said, Hartford city proper and its residents have some very real problems. These are not imaginary problems dreamed up by suburbanites, but real problems. There are too many poor people concentrated in Hartford which means too many social services which means people with the means to move out... and stay out... will continue to do so. Unless this cycle is broken somehow, the problems in Hartford will never get fixed. Hartford will only get poorer and more dangerous. Throwing money at these problems doesn't work. Thank God for the large insurance companies who have stuck it out over the years. I can only imagine what Hartford would be like if they weren't here.

The people like us on this site are a rare breed. I used to work with suburbanites who prided themselves on how long its been since they've been to Hartford. The progress made in the last few years is admirable, but it is only the beginning of what needs to happen for Hartford to be an attractive place for suburbanites to move to. We still have a very long way to go. Yeah... the Civic Center, The Wadsworth, the restaurants and the Bushnell are great - but what about the remaining 90% of Hartford? Its the drug dealing, murders, gangs, scary neighborhoods, car break-ins, schools, etc. that give people a negative perception of Hartford. They are all very real and widespread across the city. Until this changes, the media will have too many negatives to report on.

[HartfordTycoon]

One thing to keep in mind is that in many other cities nationwide, "Hartford" would include West Hartford, East Hartford, Wetherfield, etc. and no one has a problem living in those towns. The footprint of Hartford is so small, it is entirely urbanized. You could still live in "St Louis" while residing 1/2 hour from downtown so in that sense, Hartford gets a bad rap.

That being said, Hartford city proper and its residents have some very real problems. These are not imaginary problems dreamed up by suburbanites, but real problems. There are too many poor people concentrated in Hartford which means too many social services which means people with the means to move out... and stay out... will continue to do so. Unless this cycle is broken somehow, the problems in Hartford will never get fixed. Hartford will only get poorer and more dangerous. Throwing money at these problems doesn't work. Thank God for the large insurance companies who have stuck it out over the years. I can only imagine what Hartford would be like if they weren't here.

The people like us on this site are a rare breed. I used to work with suburbanites who prided themselves on how long its been since they've been to Hartford. The progress made in the last few years is admirable, but it is only the beginning of what needs to happen for Hartford to be an attractive place for suburbanites to move to. We still have a very long way to go. Yeah... the Civic Center, The Wadsworth, the restaurants and the Bushnell are great - but what about the remaining 90% of Hartford? Its the drug dealing, murders, gangs, scary neighborhoods, car break-ins, schools, etc. that give people a negative perception of Hartford. They are all very real and widespread across the city. Until this changes, the media will have too many negatives to report on.