CMS Superintendent orders English only Pledge at Events

[voyager12]

I was just in South Florida and every time I go down there I hear the same complaints: "Miami is such a pain to visit because everyone speaks Spanish, why can't they just speak English, all the signs are even in Spanish"!I have never viewed this as a problem. Miami's close proximity to Central and South America has made it a hub for the many countries in that region. When I go to Quebec I try to utilize the remnants of French I have retained from high school and college because unlike the rest of English speaking Canada, French Canadians dominate the area. In the future, Spanish is going to be pervasive beyond the Miami region, the impact is spreading nationwide and some people feel threatened by this. I understand that for brevity's sake and cohesion every school event cannot be turned into a Tower of Babel. However, the impact from Latino immigrants is only growing stronger in the Carolinas. I think that welcoming their children by allowing them to use their mother tongue for rote exercises like reciting the Pledge is more than reasonable. That being said, half the time I was in school my teachers were so slack that we never performed the Pledge to begin with.

[monsoon]

...... When I go to Quebec I try to utilize the remnants of French I have retained from high school and college because unlike the rest of English speaking Canada, French Canadians dominate the area. ....

[Justadude]

Kids who grow up here naturally learn English. In a generation this conversation will be moot, the same way it was with every previous wave of immigration.

But it's really not fair to expect adults to learn a new language immediately upon coming to a new country, especially if they have very limited access to public services.

[A2]

But it's really not fair to expect adults to learn a new language immediately upon coming to a new country, especially if they have very limited access to public services.

[JerseyBoy]

If anything imigrants have as much, if not more access, to public services than anyone. One of the MAJOR problems in this Country is the buckets of money many Illegals are STEALNG from honest tax-payers by draining Social Security, Medicade/Medicare, Worker compensation, and Law enforcement when they have not even paid a DIME into the system. It is fraud at every level. This draining of resources is what is PISSING people off, not the Spanish these immigrants speak. (and I for one do not like being robbed).

[Delta_USAir]

what do illegals have to do with anything?Most Immigrants{ which come from all over the world} Hate illegals to.

No one is asking for people to say the pledge in spanish btw.

[karanas_mangi]

If anything imigrants have as much, if not more access, to public services than anyone. One of the MAJOR problems in this Country is the buckets of money many Illegals are STEALNG from honest tax-payers by draining Social Security, Medicade/Medicare, Worker compensation, and Law enforcement when they have not even paid a DIME into the system. It is fraud at every level. This draining of resources is what is PISSING people off, not the Spanish these immigrants speak. (and I for one do not like being robbed).

If you are legal than great say the pledge in Spanish, I don't care. Just don't expect me to say my Pledge in Spanish to accomodate you. One should not be forced to change at the expense of anothers wishes. That is backwards. I also should not be tagged as a racist new-con, since I like speaking in English, and really don't care to be fluent in Spanish. Does this make me close-minded?

A2

[dubone]

I saw multiple interviews with Gorman over the weekend in which he said he didn't care one way or another if they said the pledge in Spanish. He said it was up to the local principals based on the context. He seemed to be geniunely and personally accepting of that freedom of speech. It seems to be pure politics that he has made such a turnaround. (Note, I have edited this now that I see that he did, in fact, make a turnaround).

The bottom line for me is that Spanish speaking citizens are being sent to die for this country overseas. It would seem to me to be perfectly acceptable for Spanish speaking citizens to announce their devotion to the country and its flag in their native language. Don't forget that much of this country was part of the Spanish empire and Spanish speaking long before English showed up. I don't see people trying to squelch Native American tongues, or Gullah, or Cajun, or Hawaiian. Rather, they are celebrated as part of the cultural diversity of this country. It is no question that English is our language of business, and to take part in the wealth of the country, English is required. But are we so insecure as a country that we must enforce with iron rule that a single quasi-poem must be spoken in only a single language?

I believe even now, this country does not have a national language, enforcing a monophonic world on everyone. In fact, there is hardly an edict for people to even learn or speak or write English correctly, even for native speakers, as English grammar has been mostly dropped from curriculums across this country in favor of 'whole language', which ignores technical elements of the language in favor of 'could you figure out what they meant to write or say'. My wife is an English teacher, and most of her best kids are hispanics trying very hard to learn English, much more so than the native speakers, who, um, don't actually know English that well. Meanwhile, they are respectful of their teachers and diligent, as a whole.

If someone was devoting their life to you, would you enforce that they say it in English?

[mallguy]

It is estimated that 75% of undocumented immigrants pay Social Security taxes with no realistic hope of ever having access to that security.

[voyager12]

Well, one positive aspect of this debate is our ability to air opinions from both sides. That freedom is uniquely American regardless of your country of origin.

[Justadude]

If anything imigrants have as much, if not more access, to public services than anyone. One of the MAJOR problems in this Country is the buckets of money many Illegals are STEALNG from honest tax-payers by draining Social Security, Medicade/Medicare, Worker compensation, and Law enforcement when they have not even paid a DIME into the system. It is fraud at every level. This draining of resources is what is PISSING people off, not the Spanish these immigrants speak. (and I for one do not like being robbed).

[dubone]

Is this really about illegal immigrants? If they aren't citizens, they shouldn't be saying the pledge at all. Not as an exclusive thing, but as a 'why would they want to' thing. It is pledging allegiance to a flag of a country. I'd love to go get a job in England making more money than I do now and where the living conditions are superior (trying to give a fair analogy), but I'm not about to pledge to serve the Queen or anything.

[lupitachica]

Imo, the reason illegal immigration comes up, though it has nothing to do with this topic, is precisely because the issue of "english only" goes beyond the spanish language and into feelings of resentment, hostility, insecurity, etc. about the latino community and their increased size & political clout. At the Superbown an actress SIGNED the Nation Anthem and nobody is complaining about the use of that language and nobody stated that the anthem should be performed for the hearing only.

It is no question that English is our language of business, and to take part in the wealth of the country, English is required. But are we so insecure as a country that we must enforce with iron rule that a single quasi-poem must be spoken in only a single language?

[uptownliving]

In this particular instance the Pledge was first said in English and then followed with a Spanish translation. I don't find anything offensive about that at all.

[Vitamin_N]

People are worried imo that they'll lose their priviledged state even as they are denying that that priviledged state exists. Few people gives a f**k about the non english speaking immigrant that's cleaning the floors, clearing tables or making those great fijitas. Its when these same people step out in front, own something, are in positions to hire or fire, or gather in larger numbers - the worrying begins.

[monsoon]

There isn't an immigrant out there, illegal or otherwise, that doesn't insist their children learn English. They realize the opportunities that are lost to someone in the USA who doesn't speak English and it is one of the reasons they come to this country in the first place. So while there are a lot of spanish speakers out there in the latino community, they are only one or two generations away from being an English speaking community. I saw this first hand with second and third generation Cuban decedents when I lived in the Miami area (their accents were indistinguishable from middle class Americans) and there is no reason we won't see this with the Mexican influx that we see now.

[nowensone]

I generally agree with that statement, though the problem with saying the pledge in Spanish, even if in English first, is the precedence it creates. We would then be required to allow this in any other language as well. It would only be a matter of time before we see demands for the pledge in Gaelic, Cherokee, Farsi, German, Hindi, Mardarin, etc., and lawsuits are likely to follow.

[lupitachica]

Believe it or not, some people may disagree with you for reasons of principle rather than selfishness. For example, a rational, moral, caring person can look at places like Quebec, Belgium, and Yugoslavia and conclude that the citizens of the U.S. (regardless of where they're from) are better off with one language as a standard. You don't do your argument any credit by demonizing those who disagree with you or pejoratively attributing their views to raw, calculating self-interest.

[mallguy]

I agree with monsoon's statements. I think some people are concerned that even if only say 5% of legal/illegal immigrants don't want to learn English, the current levels of immigration are so high that even that 5% can support its own linguistic enclaves. Conversely, when my family moved to the US, they wanted to learn English (I'd guess) but even if they hadn't wanted to, they would have been forced to because there simply weren't enough people who spoke their language; they were the only family in the small town in the South they moved to that spoke that language.

[SmellyCat]

My grandparents explained to me how when they first came over from Europe in the 1930s they were ashamed that they could not speak English. In their native tongue, they would whisper to each other while in public because they were embarrassed that others might hear them. With hardly a cent to their name, they somehow found it a priority to learn English.

[Vitamin_N]

If a looks to places like Quebec or Belgium and says "whoah that's not for me or citizens us here" that's not a calculated decision made out of self interest? Just as my thoughts on this topic are in the end self serving. They are based on my values, my desire to live in a certain kind of US.

[lupitachica]

Some people actually believe in old-fashioned notions like the common good

[mallguy]

These people are just as American as anyone here and they may live their lives never speaking english.

[Bradley89]

I say F**K spanish

Why do we have to learn their f**king language. They come here and over run our country and make us AMERICANS change our culture, it's Bull Sh*t.

[swh1972]

But how do you really feel?