Homeless in Heartside

[civitas]

Exactly. As non-profits, the social services/missions operate outside the natural laws (often cruel) of economic activity. Again, if they get established in a location, as they did on South Division, that area effectively gets re-zoned for special purposes. It's a noble purpose, but it's a NIMBY-issue. And Heartside is right there in our collective backyard.

[tamias6]

I don't think that the shelters would have enough funds in there sparten budgets to address the mental illness problem. Therefore when facing that issue they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. About the only thing they could do is ask for charity from faculities and people that are equiped to deal with mental illness and hope for the best.

I think we must ask ourselves what these facilities do and who they serve. These organizations have to operate within their means and as a result must address the clear necessities -- food and shelter.

[url=http://www.degageministries.org/about-history.php]According to D

[PR-15]

Am I wrong or aren't the shelters and non-profits in place (in theory) as "temporary" assistance to help people get back on their feet, to address the issues they have as well as to attempt to integrate them back into the mainstream?

Everyone's so emotional about moving the shelters and residents out of their "neighborhood" or "homes." I doubt many people aspire to stay there longer than they have to.

Might I suggest that the services the shelters and non-profits provide to the community are much more important than the actual address in which they are given??

I remember a similar stink when Old's Manor was vacated and all those "poor old people" were forced out of their apartments by the big bad developer...those residents actually chose to make the Manor their home...and probably had a much better emotional argument for not leaving.

The fact remains that most Heartside non-profits own their buildings. If will take a highly favorable economic scenario for them to even contemplate a move. I don't think any of them have expressed an interest in moving anyway.

[Rizzo]

I don't think that the shelters would have enough funds in there sparten budgets to address the mental illness problem. Therefore when facing that issue they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. About the only thing they could do is ask for charity from faculities and people that are equiped to deal with mental illness and hope for the best.

[civitas]

If places like Cascade do what is necessary to keep out the unwanted "riff raff", I don't see why GR should not be allowed to do the same.

[civitas]

I remember Veloise telling me the backstory of one of the guys DT.. used to be a college professor.. lost his entire family in a car crash and just hasn't been able to hold any job since.

[Rizzo]

That really puts perspective on this issue.

[PR-15]

This guy is rumored to have been a professor...

[PR-15]

I hate to add another thread, but it is related.

Could Morton House also be linked in the same context with Heartside in the continued re-development of Monroe Center?

[civitas]

I like that guy. He seems to have befriended people downtown. I've never seen him do anything close to inappropriate...in fact I think he's as much a part of the fabric of downtown as the suits along Monroe Center.

The real problems are addiction and debilitating mental illness...as they have been for generations.

[GRDadof3]

I don't think that a few random homeless people downtown, like the guy pictured, is that big of a deterrent or an issue. Like Rizzo said, you see them all over Chicago and other big cities that are seeing a massive amount of revitalization. It's the sheer mass of 50 - 60 guys standing out in front of Guiding Light all day long, or standing out in the middle of Division, or the 20 guys hanging out on Commerce by Mel Trotter, that are the deterrent. We seriously wouldn't allow that kind of behavior if it were teenagers, or anyone other than homeless for that matter. Why is it tolerated for the homeless?

[Rizzo]

The only thing I can think of as to why its tolerated is because they don't have homes or places to goto. If they did have secure and permanent places to go they wouldn't have to be loitering.

[joeDowntown]

"Those people" are interfering with making money off the land. As I said before, I feel sympathy for the homeless but trying to solve homelessness or pinpointing the root cause (of which there are thousands) would be like trying to find world peace.

The topic is, do the shelters hinder development. I'll keep saying yes and keep driving the topic back on course.

Joe

hmm...seems to me like it's one in the same...developers and armchair developers here seem to think "those people" are interfereing with making big bucks off some land. All I was saying is if you look at root issues rather than just how a handful of people might make more money off the land "hindered by shelters" then you may actually achieve solutions to both issues.

*fish

[civitas]

"Those people" are interfering with making money off the land. As I said before, I feel sympathy for the homeless but trying to solve homelessness or pinpointing the root cause (of which there are thousands) would be like trying to find world peace.

The topic is, do the shelters hinder development. I'll keep saying yes and keep driving the topic back on course.

Joe

[Raildudes dad]

The homeless situation may have slowed development some but the area is developing in spite of it. I went to high school during the mid 60's (Madison & Franklin - anyone tell me which high school? ). I used to take the city bus home north on Divison to Monroe and transfer to the bus to Creston area. South Division was pretty rough, ladies of the night working north of Wealthy at 4pm, Guiding Light was there. The only thing different was some of the folks hung around lower Monroe south of Michigan (empty storefronts pre urban renewal) and Bridge Street from the river to Scribner. Today, they are all In the Heartside area. But look at the redevelopment that has occured and is occuring in spite of the situation

I don't believe there is a socially acceptable solution to the homeless. The state closed most institutions where these people probably should be for their own good. Many suffer from mental illness and need, IMHO, structured treatment which they are not getting. Without treatment, most "choose" the lifestyle they are living.

I think we need to be thankful for those that try and help the homeless. It has to be depressing working in basically a no improvememt situation, I know I couldn't do it.

[Veloise]

This guy is rumored to have been a professor...

[concretepoem]

These agencies operate very much within economic laws. There is a market demand for their services and they position themselves to fill it. They are only different in that they receive no income and therefore rely on donations.

[mejane]

I went to high school during the mid 60's (Madison & Franklin - anyone tell me which high school? ).

[Allison Slater]

How exactly does Cascade keep out unwanted "riff raff"? Can anyone name a "skid row" area in the suburbs in any city in the world. Except for the "Will work for Food" guy at Wal-Mart, have you seen any homeless people in the suburbs? Why is that?

The shelters are downtown because that's where the homeless are. It is not the other way around.

[Rizzo]

I don't believe she's homeless and neither are a few others you might see at the intersection. In fact I think I know who you are referring. At work we would get the folks you are referring too on my morning shift. I used to give some of the older women my discounts. They would come in and entertain us with old lady stories and make our morning less dull.

They are folks who live at one of two halfway homes designed for folks with mental/physical disabilities. There's a two story white on Haughey and 56th, basically apartments. There is also a 'new' facility on 54th between Haughey and the Consumer's Power ROW. The only reason why I know this is because I had to help move one of my best friends into the facility on 54th. He suffered from mental retardation (Down's Syndrome) and was bound to a wheel chair -- it was either supervised independent living or the streets.

You also have to mind that you are really close to Pine Rest, one of the largest psychological in/outpatient facilities in the region.

[Raildudes dad]

That would be Central Christian High School. I was in the second graduating class of the combined

Central and East Christian High Schools in 1974 - renamed Grand Rapids Christian High.

Spent my junior year at Franklin & Madison while East was being renovated.

Loved the building and remember my year there fondly.

[civitas]

They've got another mission besides profit, and God bless them. But without a profit motive, there's no real incentive for them to be part of any change on South Division.

[GRDadof3]

That would also then be true of the downtown churches. St. Andrews Cathedral , Westminster, Park Congregational - nice property! I'll bet VAI would love to get that little church next to them on Michigan. How about St. Mary's hospital or Calder Plaza? The YMCA is a non-profit squatting on some pretty valuable downtown land. Are they all interfering with the development of more profitable uses?

As a society we need to be very careful how we define profit. Heartside is has the highest residential density of any area in the City of Grand Rapids. You may not like even one person there, but Heartside is their only "home." I'll bet that the missions want change on South Division more than any of us. They want to see the homeless problem solved and they want to see quality-of-life improved. They might even have a prayer that one day their very reason to exist disappears.

Maybe the next UP get-together should be with a group of mission leaders in Heartside. Before we color all of them and the poor people they serve as obstructionists we should ask them how they feel about dispersing the homeless and relocating the missions. I suspect that you'll find them more interested in the revitalization of the city than you think.

Now...I wonder how much it would cost to buy St. Marks Church at Pearl and Division.....

[Sunlover38]

Ya know, what I find ironic about this entire thread, is that this is the same forum where people freaked out about a bus stop being moved at the mall (b/c of alleged bad behaviour, people not feeling safe . . .) and eveyrone threw themselves into a tizzy and wanted to boycott the mall.

Talk about moving the undesireable homeless, for the sake of development, however, warrants little sympathy. Simply moving the shelters does not solve the problem.

[Rizzo]

A homeless person wasn't murdered at Rivertown's bus stop. No one has been knifed, pissed on, beaten, etc. at Rivertown's stop.