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The United States; A Good Nation or Bad Nation?


tamias6

Is the United States; A Good Nation or Bad Nation?  

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  1. 1. Under all that negative comments about this country as well as what our parents and teachers have told us, Is The United States a Good Nation or Bad Nation?

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There is a certain breed of liberals that hate America. I remember in college meeting many that I think could be characterized as hating America, with a deep passion. These people seem to believe everything is better in Europe (while ignoring much of Europe's not-so-pretty history), American foreign policy is to exploit and abuse the rest of the world, Americans are inherently racist and intolerant... There are cases that prove their points, but there are just as many or more that disprove them.
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I agree, although that representative is from Virginia not South Carolina, unless there are two of them (could be). I agree that his comments were wrong; however, he is one man. And he made no mention of the color of the skin, only that he was bigoted against Muslims. My point is that Muslims get along much better in America than they do in other places. I know many Muslims and they're upper-class people who're very educated. Though prejudice is known everywhere, it hasn't hindered their economic situation as it has in Europe. I believe most Americans are more accepting of other religions than other countries, where religion is fine as long as you don't talk about it.

Closing our borders is not motivated by racism, only fear. I know Hispanics who are upset about the immigration flow. Are they racist? How many other nations would tolerate having millions of undocumented persons within their nation? How many European nations? Last time I checked, England is still trying to get over all the Poles immigrating to their country, and Denmark has cut its immigration levels from Muslim countries. If anything, the U.S. has altered its immigration policies to welcome more immigrants from non-white nations. Why would a racist nation do that? If it was a racist agenda then why would we have changed our policy? Why not recruit from Europe like we used to?

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There are many issues in American society that European countries have largely dealt with successfully. Is Europe perfect? No, but they have already come up with solutions to many of our problems. Pointing out these examples doesn't indicate hatred of America, but rather indicates areas where one sees room for improvement. If these people hate America, why are they trying to improve it? If your best friend is killing himself with drugs and alcohol, is it hatred of him to show him ways he can quit?

Again, writing off entire groups as "hating America" simply for holding certain specific opinions is itself disdainful of everything America stands for. Despite all their empty rhetoric, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and their followers hate America more than 95% of liberals.

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There are plusses and minuses in the comparison of America to Europe, for example. Regarding racism, Europe [as a whole] isn't just a little more racist than America, it is in a different category of worse. Soccer matches were mentioned earlier, if you are a black soccer player, you risk your life with each major game you play, you aren't just heckled in the worst ways by fans and called the most outrageous things, you may also be assaulted and killed for being on the team. Yeah, I saw the Dateline special, but I've also been to one of the games (in Greece).

I think there is a very discernable line as far as bashing one's country. I do it freely at times, but you won't find me nearly so eager when talking to someone from another country. That doesn't mean I deny our problems, but too many people will bash the US in every way to elevate themselves, and in the end it just seems pathetic. Your actions will either paint you as a stereotypical American or they won't. Either way, it is healthy to criticize, both yourself and others. Europeans know they are nowhere near perfect, but you generally won't find them acting as apologists or sycophantically trashing their own countries to you.

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I hear it all the time: Liberals are unamerican and all we want to do is appease terrorists and take your hard earned money and give it to lazy people so they can sit around all day and waste your money on stupid stuff that they don't deserve.

I just had a discussion with a friend yesterday about welfare and he basically said "we need to get rid of welfare so these lazy people can learn what life is really like." I asked him if he knew anyone on welfare and he just told me that he doesn't "associate" with people like that. I could bet you that most people on welfare probably have a better idea of what life is really like than his cushy suburban upper middle class existence. But if you bring that up, he just changes the subject or tells he doesn't really care. So it's pointless. If you cite statistics that go against his opinion, they are of course twisted by liberal organizations.. it's like an impenetrable wall.. so why even bother?

So, apparently people who lose their jobs with no savings should just sell the house until they find a new job or that disabled people should just hope they have a family to rely on for support. You could say "well, they should have thought of that before they lost their job".. but that's just a bad argument.. shoulda coulda woulda.

He said "No.. welfare is fine for disabled people or the ones that need it for a few months to get back on their feet and working again." I agree. But, 70% of welfare recipients that are able to work are off of welfare within 12 months and receive no welfare benefits thereafter. Of course that wasn't a reliable source (the state doing a study on its own welfare programs and reported in the Star Tribune.. which is just a big liberal machine not to be trusted, even with cited state statistics) A new program here cuts them off after 4 months provided that they find a job, something they have to pursue 40 hours per week during those four months at a job center. And the benefits are hardly ones that would make you want to keep them: They pay for your rent, heating, transportation, and you get a grocery allowance with a very small amount of cash. Even so, the new program only reduced total welfare spending 1.6%.

But there will always be people that can NOT work for various reasons, and to just deny them a minimum quality of life or to force them to bow down to the conditions of private charity is not only unamerican, it's inhumane.

If you are going to rely on private organizations for charity, the government needs to regulate them for quality and to ensure that the rights of the recipients are not being infringed upon (like telling them that in order to eat, they need to receive Jesus as their savior)...

This backwards thinking is what makes my outlook of America so bad. If you would have asked me in 2000 how America was, I would have said great. Things don't look so hot now.

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I didn't say all liberals hate America, I feel much the same way you do. However, there is a vein of radical liberals that sure seem to. When you speak to someone who rants for hours about what is wrong with this country and never mentions any of the positive aspects, I would call that hatred. A lot of those people are doing nothing to improve this country, they simply complain and add to the bitterness, which doesn't help anyone.
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There has been a darkness that has fallen over this country that is inspired by a leadership whose actions bring fear, doubt, and mistrust to the people under them. The "Religious Right", the President and his minions, and the CEOs of the corporations all fall into this camp. They offer little to be hopeful about and instead tell the people to suck it up and do it their way or face catastrophic results. Whether it be your soul will burn in the sulpher fires of hell for eternity, the terrorists are going to destroy your way of life and/or your job is going to India, China or turned over to illegals.

The end result of these fear mongers who are looking to hold their power at any cost are that the people have turned onto each other and in the process have lost sight of what is important. 1/3 of the people have bought in to the lies of the demagogue, 1/3 haven't and the remainder are clueless. This leaves a vacuum where the country is being taken down a bad path. It remains to be seen if we will make it out of these dark days.

I am absolutely ashamed of the United States for having attacked another country, a defenseless country, and completely destroyed it when it wasn't necessary. I am even more ashamed this happened with almost 3/4ths of all American's fully supporting it. Something is seriously wrong.

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I think I get what you're saying, but the thing is, a lot of these people who can rant and rave about what's gone wrong with America don't hate the country: they just hate what's happened to it. I'll admit that I probably complain about the things I see wrong with America more than the average Joe, because I think we can do better.

It's also important to point out that "hating America" is a brutally over-arching term. Hate what? I think it's the so-called "American Way" that some radical liberals, and not-so-radical ones too, hate. It's the bigger-is-better philosophy shared by so many Americans, from the obesity epidemic to the Hummer. It's the turning-up of the nose at other countries. The suburban sprawl and the big-box retailers. The materialism. Fast food chains. The media's obsession with musicians and actors. Religious zealots that demand a say in government. Dick Cheney. Country music. It could be anything, and I'm sure if we all think long and hard we can all come up with something we hate about the United States. And you know, I'd venture to guess you only hate what you do because it's replaced or destroyed something you loved about America.

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I think there is a very discernable line as far as bashing one's country. I do it freely at times, but you won't find me nearly so eager when talking to someone from another country. That doesn't mean I deny our problems, but too many people will bash the US in every way to elevate themselves, and in the end it just seems pathetic. Your actions will either paint you as a stereotypical American or they won't. Either way, it is healthy to criticize, both yourself and others. Europeans know they are nowhere near perfect, but you generally won't find them acting as apologists or sycophantically trashing their own countries to you.
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Nor should you denounce America when you are abroad. That is a simple courtesy to your country on the deepest level. You don't have to agree with what your politicians do, but I think it is extremely unAmerican to take part in a protest or something against the U.S in a foreign country.

But nor should you go around saying that America is the best country in the world and belittling other countries when abroad. You are, as an American abroad, a representative of your country and should act accordingly.

I complained about Bush with Austrian friends, but again, that's different. They were friends, and it was a personal opinion. I am still an American and nothing is going to change that.

It is much the same that I would gladly join a peaceful protest in the U.S against Bush, but I would be nothing but cordial and respectful to him in person.

I remember when the president made a visit to Vienna when I was in Salzburg and it was all over the news for like a week. Nobody would stop talking about it and how they had to shut down the whole city for him... I just laughed. I'm glad that Bush got to see Vienna, it's a wonderful place.

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That'd be a tough one to meet Bush in person. I recently had a very exhausting argument with an older somewhat mentally blind individual that in the end I realized made no difference what-so-ever, no matter how well structured and explained the arguments were. These weren't on opinion type matters mind you, but ones of facts (mostly). Anyway, the point is, that is how I would see a conversation with Bush, he'd either be incapable of really hearing you or would play politician and agree and in the end ignore you. Sometimes I want to believe that we have discovered time travel and Bush knows things that we don't and has acted accordingly. Otherwise he is high proof that our species is not well evolved to last. It really disgusts me.

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There has been a darkness that has fallen over this country that is inspired by a leadership whose actions bring fear, doubt, and mistrust to the people under them. The "Religious Right", the President and his minions, and the CEOs of the corporations all fall into this camp. They offer little to be hopeful about and instead tell the people to suck it up and do it their way or face catastrophic results. Whether it be your soul will burn in the sulpher fires of hell for eternity, the terrorists are going to destroy your way of life and/or your job is going to India, China or turned over to illegals.

The end result of these fear mongers who are looking to hold their power at any cost are that the people have turned onto each other and in the process have lost sight of what is important. 1/3 of the people have bought in to the lies of the demagogue, 1/3 haven't and the remainder are clueless. This leaves a vacuum where the country is being taken down a bad path. It remains to be seen if we will make it out of these dark days.

I am absolutely ashamed of the United States for having attacked another country, a defenseless country, and completely destroyed it when it wasn't necessary. I am even more ashamed this happened with almost 3/4ths of all American's fully supporting it. Something is seriously wrong.

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You can't prove that the U.S is the greatest country in the world, so you can't just go out and say that. Many countries compare. Many countries give their children what they need to succeed, including a good education through college and health care so that they can succeed.

We argue whether we should teach intelligent design in classrooms and deny a college education and health care to millions because they can't afford it and aren't eligible for loans to pay for it.

Conservatives in this country push to close our borders and make us a one language-one culture country. We seek constitutional amendments to deny gays/lesbians the right to get married.

Yes, liberals are in a precarious situation: We are defined as hating America because we seek to defend and further the things that the supposed America "lovers" seek to destroy and end: The very things that make America what it is... the land of opportunity and equality... liberty and justice for all. Conservatives would make it Liberty and Justice for all*

There is nothing good about that.

America is a good country, but I am worried that it is becoming a monster.

*as long as you're white, speak english, were born here, wrap yourself in the flag, and worship God of the Bible and accept Jesus as your savior. Justice may be served in an unjust manner, especially if you are Muslim or look out of place.

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Have you ever heard of the Kurds? I think they'd disagree with you. Saddam murdered thousands of them, and now they are basically a free and safe country within Iraq. We didn't "attack" another country. We attacked Saddam's regime for good reason and with full support by your friends John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. Our troops don't appreciate it when libs like yourself go beyond the pale and identify them as destroyers and attackers.

And you want to talk about fear mongering? Isn't that what you libs do when you talk about humans causing global warming?

I can't wait to hear your reply! :yahoo:

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^I believe Saddam actually killed over 100,000 Kurds, not 8,000. It was supposed to be one of the worst ethnic cleansing acts in modern history (according to a recent AP writer, I did not verify the statement).

That said, Nashcan, you can't really justify Bush's actions by saying it saved/freed/avenged the Kurds, otherwise you'd commit us to doing this for numerous ethnic groups all over the world suffering tyranny and oppression. It was also not a reason, not even a small one, that we went into Iraq. And long term, we have likely created a much worse situation for everyone, Kurds alike.

Kerry and other Dems/libs supported the war because we were fresh on the heals of 9-11 and the belief that Saddam had nukes, as you know, so I wouldn't act like that is a good reason or some argument in favor of the current war, that's kind of gimmicky.

Fear mongering to talk about Global Warming? I'd say yes and agree, but not many are doing anything about it or really understand it, so I guess we should be plastering it on billboards until the lesson sinks in, what's your solution?

Have you ever heard of the Kurds? I think they'd disagree with you. Saddam murdered thousands of them, and now they are basically a free and safe country within Iraq. We didn't "attack" another country. We attacked Saddam's regime for good reason and with full support by your friends John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. Our troops don't appreciate it when libs like yourself go beyond the pale and identify them as destroyers and attackers.

And you want to talk about fear mongering? Isn't that what you libs do when you talk about humans causing global warming?

I can't wait to hear your reply! :yahoo:

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That said, Nashcan, you can't really justify Bush's actions by saying it saved/freed/avenged the Kurds, otherwise you'd commit us to doing this for numerous ethnic groups all over the world suffering tyranny and oppression. It was also not a reason, not even a small one, that we went into Iraq. And long term, we have likely created a much worse situation for everyone, Kurds alike.
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This thread is the very embodiment of why discussing politics on the internet is about as useful as trying to make red wine out of lemons.

Entertaining, but ultimately completely unenlightening.

I just want to reiterate a standard piece of advice. No amount of google-mining is a substitute for real experience.

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This thread is the very embodiment of why discussing politics on the internet is about as useful as trying to make red wine out of lemons.

Entertaining, but ultimately completely unenlightening.

I just want to reiterate a standard piece of advice. No amount of google-mining is a substitute for real experience.

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Have you ever heard of the Kurds? I think they'd disagree with you. Saddam murdered thousands of them, and now they are basically a free and safe country within Iraq. We didn't "attack" another country. We attacked Saddam's regime for good reason and with full support by your friends John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. Our troops don't appreciate it when libs like yourself go beyond the pale and identify them as destroyers and attackers.

And you want to talk about fear mongering? Isn't that what you libs do when you talk about humans causing global warming?

I can't wait to hear your reply! :yahoo:

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You know what our troops appreciate even less? Being sent into a war without understanding what they're fighting for. The troops have the full support of the "libs" I know, which is why so many democrats AND republicans in congress want to remove them from a seemingly endless civil war between the Sunni and the Shia. Supporting the troops, contrary to the opinion of some, doesn't mean slapping a bumper sticker on your SUV. It means using military force only when necessary, providing soldiers with solid leadership, and having an exit strategy.
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Bad nation because we waste most of the world's energy on our sophisticated network of "non-cities" where the only real option of travel is private automobile. Our cities... especially our "new, clean, successful" cities... are exceptionally degraded environments... and only function due to an obscene amount of cheap oil and twisted government practices that promote low-density sprawltopia over urban structure.

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I don't really think you can speak for the troops. I'd bet that a good many of them (but not all, of course) know exactly what they are fighting for and believe in the cause very much. Heck, I would even bet that some of them actually like being in the fight. I despise how both dems and republicans can't seem to accomplish anything other than trying to look like they care about "the troops" the most.
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