The Promenade At Chenal

[Architect]

I think we forget how small we are.

I'm not sure what you meant by this, but my point was that Jackson is smaller, and less affluent than Little Rock, but when resources are pooled (into one development) greater things happen....

And about the comments regarding demand for Chenal lots, that has more to do with the economic climate than anything else...perhaps some association with oversupply (demand being met). Also, Promenade at Chenal is too remote as you suggest/infer by the lack of density....I couldn't agree more.

[turboturtle]

I'm not sure what you meant by this, but my point was that Jackson is smaller, and less affluent than Little Rock, but when resources are pooled (into one development) greater things happen....

And about the comments regarding demand for Chenal lots, that has more to do with the economic climate than anything else...perhaps some association with oversupply (demand being met). Also, Promenade at Chenal is too remote as you suggest/infer by the lack of density....I couldn't agree more.

It is the combination of small population and sparse developments. IF we were twice our size, we could better support these developments. I think we tend to forget that Little Rock is the size it is. This means there isn't enough scrutiny about where and when developments go. NLR has done a better job keeping their retail more dense.

[bchris02]

Sad that Jackson may get Apple before Little Rock. I realize Little Rock is not much more than a big town, but if something can work in Jackson, Baton Rouge, and Des Moines it can surely work here. More evidence that the sparse, small developments were a bad idea in a market our size. With the economy in shambles, it could take decades to get to where we would be if Summit was built.

[Aporkalypse]

I'm not sure what you meant by this, but my point was that Jackson is smaller, and less affluent than Little Rock, but when resources are pooled (into one development) greater things happen....

And about the comments regarding demand for Chenal lots, that has more to do with the economic climate than anything else...perhaps some association with oversupply (demand being met). Also, Promenade at Chenal is too remote as you suggest/infer by the lack of density....I couldn't agree more.

Exactly. We need a core retail district and current developments ensure we won't have one in West LR with all of these sprawled developments.

I still think we are overreacting to this. Most of us thought all along Apple belonged in Midtown and it may be looking for the right spot in Midtowne SC or in Park Avenue when it's built. That's the logical thing most of us thought would be wise and Apple may have finally seen that retail density and visibility trump affluent demographics but like most of you did.

[adman0468]

I hate to see this shopping center get off to such a weak start. I think momentum is going to be hard to gain. I remember when Park Plaza reopened in the 80s. There was a huge debut with a big Grand Opening and most stores were open from the beginning. It was a big event and people kept returning.

Instead, the Promenade has had a bunch of people go to the theater to see Batman in IMAX and now has four or five stores spread out over the whole center with almost zero traffic. It looks like nothing else will open until spring. Then, when those new stores open, it still won't be full. But I guess if they open at about the same time and the center has an official grand opening, it may build business. There will be less curiosity, though, since everyone will have seen the center already, albeit when it was empty.

[turboturtle]

There is an interesting article in the arktimes about Deltic's plan to extend a street in Chenal. http://arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer...4a-467d87a02746

There is a WLR neighbor, who has City planning experience and is quoted in the report. If his POV is close to reality, then the City and Chenal Properties could have a serious problem. Nothing like a bunch of pissed-off voters.

[Architect]

There is an interesting article in the arktimes about Deltic's plan to extend a street in Chenal. http://arktimes.com/Articles/ArticleViewer...4a-467d87a02746

There is a WLR neighbor, who has City planning experience and is quoted in the report. If his POV is close to reality, then the City and Chenal Properties could have a serious problem. Nothing like a bunch of pissed-off voters.

Wow. Interesting. I would certainly agree with the "planner" resident who points out what a crappy job the city has done with street planning, or the lack thereof, essentially letting the developer drive routes, construction, etc. He is right, there is no semblance of feeders or arterials in WLR...it is ludicrous. Consider this: ever try and drive NORTH from Colonel Glenn, to Kanis, to Chenal, to Cantrell? Good luck...someone forgot to plan for those.

[EJC]

Wow. Interesting. I would certainly agree with the "planner" resident who points out what a crappy job the city has done with street planning, or the lack thereof, essentially letting the developer drive routes, construction, etc. He is right, there is no semblance of feeders or arterials in WLR...it is ludicrous. Consider this: ever try and drive NORTH from Colonel Glenn, to Kanis, to Chenal, to Cantrell? Good luck...someone forgot to plan for those.

Isn't that route exactly what the plans call for with the extension of Rahling?

[Architect]

Isn't that route exactly what the plans call for with the extension of Rahling?

True, that route will ultimately connect those east-west corridors, but not only does that connector not yet exist, it's at least 5 miles west of I-430. Additionally, it's running as much east-west as it is north-south.

The only other option is Bowman/Napa Valley, which reluctantly serves this purpose and only then to Hinson/Rodney Parham, not Cantrell. The fact is, there are no practical ways to move north-south in west Little Rock. It's extremely frustrating, and in many ways, incomprehensible that the city would plan so poorly.

[EJC]

True, that route will ultimately connect those east-west corridors, but not only does that connector not yet exist, it's at least 5 miles west of I-430. Additionally, it's running as much east-west as it is north-south.

The only other option is Bowman/Napa Valley, which reluctantly serves this purpose and only then to Hinson/Rodney Parham, not Cantrell. The fact is, there are no practical ways to move north-south in west Little Rock. It's extremely frustrating, and in many ways, incomprehensible that the city would plan so poorly.

I don't disagree in general but I do think this new route will help quite a bit....when it's complete.

[Architect]

I don't disagree in general but I do think this new route will help quite a bit....when it's complete.

Yes, it will help quite a bit. I'm still just surprised at the lack of north-south thoroughfares. It's mind-boggling, and frustrating.

[adman0468]

According to the Promenade's website (and ads in the paper), they will hold a holiday celebration the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Quite a bit of stuff planned - Santa, a train, fireworks, tree lighting. But it seems odd in such an empty shopping center. I mean all of this stuff going on and they have what, four stores and a movie theater? I wonder how many people will show up.

http://redmalls.waittdesigngroup.com/post/...y%20poster2.pdf

[adman0468]

According to the Promenade's website (and ads in the paper), they will hold a holiday celebration the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Quite a bit of stuff planned - Santa, a train, fireworks, tree lighting. But it seems odd in such an empty shopping center. I mean all of this stuff going on and they have what, four stores and a movie theater? I wonder how many people will show up.

Went to the holiday celebration and, I have to say, those were some very impressive fireworks. They lasted probably 20 minutes, were choreographed to holiday music and were comparable to the end of Riverfest (if not as big, at least 90% as big). They also dedicated a Habitat for Humanity home, lit the Christmas tree in the center of the shopping center, had Santa arrive and had several seasonal vendors set up. Quite a few people there. The only thing missing was a full shopping center. Although the ten or so that are there seemed very busy, I'm sure they appreciated the crowds.

If this is an annual event, next year it should be much more impressive, assuming all of the 'coming soon' stores have opened.

[bchris02]

The Apple store is now open in Jackson, MS and one is soon to come to Augusta, GA. Since Jackson and LR are nearly identical twins, if they can support it I don't see why we couldn't.

Assuming the Promenade location is dead, does anybody think Apple has given up on Little Rock altogether (due to the economic uncertainty)? Could our proximity to Memphis be whats keeping them out of this market?

Edited December 11, 2008 by bchris02

[Architect]

The Apple store is now open in Jackson, MS and one is soon to come to Augusta, GA. Since Jackson and LR are nearly identical twins, if they can support it I don't see why we couldn't.

Assuming the Promenade location is dead, does anybody think Apple has given up on Little Rock altogether (due to the economic uncertainty)? Could our proximity to Memphis be whats keeping them out of this market?

"Chenal" posted on page 35 of this thread (in September) that he knew that Apple had signed their lease with construction to start in January with an opening end of March. We'll see if this comes to pass due to the continued deterioration of the economy...BUT, that would be the only reason (the economy) that I see them putting this on hold. I too commented (lamented?) about the opening of a Jackson outlet first - in an earlier post, since the LR location was announced well before this (in fact, it was purported to be the first in AR/MS/LA), not to mention the fact that LR is measurably larger and has a higher income than Jackson (along with several other markets that Apple currently serves).

[CentralArkansas]

Since Jackson and LR are nearly identical twins

Please, never use these words again.

Little Rock > Jackson.

And, it's not even close. It's like comparing Rosie Odonnell to Jessica Alba.

[Architect]

Please, never use these words again.

Little Rock > Jackson.

And, it's not even close. It's like comparing Rosie Odonnell to Jessica Alba.

Ha! Wow....

Gotta agree.

[EJC]

"Chenal" posted on page 35 of this thread (in September) that he knew that Apple had signed their lease with construction to start in January with an opening end of March. We'll see if this comes to pass due to the continued deterioration of the economy...BUT, that would be the only reason (the economy) that I see them putting this on hold. I too commented (lamented?) about the opening of a Jackson outlet first - in an earlier post, since the LR location was announced well before this (in fact, it was purported to be the first in AR/MS/LA), not to mention the fact that LR is measurably larger and has a higher income than Jackson (along with several other markets that Apple currently serves).

All indications from those close to this are that Apple is still on for Promenade....which is essentially what you've suggested.

And Apple still lists Promenade...so folks from both sides still acknowledge their direction.

Edited December 11, 2008 by EJC

[Aporkalypse]

The Apple store is now open in Jackson, MS and one is soon to come to Augusta, GA. Since Jackson and LR are nearly identical twins, if they can support it I don't see why we couldn't.

Assuming the Promenade location is dead, does anybody think Apple has given up on Little Rock altogether (due to the economic uncertainty)? Could our proximity to Memphis be whats keeping them out of this market?

It's all about the right development.

Oh, and have you been to Jackson? I wouldn't agree with that at all. Hell, everyone I know from Jackson that visits here thinks LR is the coolest place on earth.

[ndark]

All indications from those close to this are that Apple is still on for Promenade....which is essentially what you've suggested.

And Apple still lists Promenade...so folks from both sides still acknowledge their direction.

What we need is for someone to apply and tell us what they hear back.

[LRguy21]

Things should start to be picking up around the Promenade soon. Lots of store openings this spring. I think the center should be full by next Christmas. The center looked really nice at Christmas. Loved the tree and all the other decorations.

Does anyone know when they are going to start on the out parcels?

Any updates on the Apple Store? I have been looking at possible locations. I think they would like a bigger store, maybe one in the round about.

Any other news.

[Aporkalypse]

Things should start to be picking up around the Promenade soon. Lots of store openings this spring. I think the center should be full by next Christmas. The center looked really nice at Christmas. Loved the tree and all the other decorations.

Does anyone know when they are going to start on the out parcels?

Any updates on the Apple Store? I have been looking at possible locations. I think they would like a bigger store, maybe one in the round about.

Any other news.

The restaurant Ya Yas is opening in mid to late January. It sounds like a nice addition and I'll definitely try it.

www.yiayias.com

[LRguy21]

The restaurant Ya Yas is opening in mid to late January. It sounds like a nice addition and I'll definitely try it.

www.yiayias.com

Ya Yas looks fun. I cant wait to try it. I hope they have an outside patio as well. That would be really nice.

[theman]

The restaurant Ya Yas is opening in mid to late January. It sounds like a nice addition and I'll definitely try it.

www.yiayias.com

The same management company for Ya Yas manages several Red Robin restaurants. Maybe they will place one at the Promenade if Ya Yas is successful.

[LRguy21]

I think a Red Robin would be really good in Chenal. I ate there today in Springfield, MO. It was really really good. I think this would be a good addition to the Little Rock area.