The Promenade At Chenal

[theman]

So now that we have some momentum, how about j crew and apple open up!!!

An article in the business section in Friday's paper on the slump in retail space had a statement from the vice president of marketing for Red Development who owns the Promenade. He stated that there are four stores and restaurants (we know who they are) in development right now with several more in the pipeline. He also said that the Promenade is set to be 75 percent leased by the end of the summer.

[LRguy21]

what are those stores?

[hogfan4life]

I'd be very interested to know what those stores/restaurants are as well. Tell us what you know...

[schwilj]

I'd be very interested to know what those stores/restaurants are as well. Tell us what you know...

I believe the reference to the the four we know of are the ones mentioned above..Anthropologie, The Wine Loft, Blanc Burgers and Bravo

But if I am incorrect that would be fine by me. I'd love to hear more news on this center

[Architect]

I believe the reference to the the four we know of are the ones mentioned above..Anthropologie, The Wine Loft, Blanc Burgers and Bravo

But if I am incorrect that would be fine by me. I'd love to hear more news on this center

I would very much like to know the status of Apple.

[adman0468]

There's also Charming Charlie, which is an accessory store set to open in the next couple of weeks. I haven't seen any progress (physically or permit-wise) for the Wine Loft, but I know the others mentioned earlier are all moving forward.

[WLRDore]

I've been told by a fairly reliable source that the Apple store is going to be a no-show. BOO. Let's hope they change their mind.

[Architect]

I've been told by a fairly reliable source that the Apple store is going to be a no-show. BOO. Let's hope they change their mind.

What?! I assume a no-show to this development, and not the market itself (there's no way they would overlook a market of this size)...heck, Apple announced it THREE years ago! Frankly, Park Plaza and/or MIdtown always seemed like a better fit.

[VistaLakes01]

I agree with the risk. The people doing this seem to know what they are doing and the timing is too perfect. This project waited out the whole Summit Mall/Simon phase, waited out Midtown and then Pleasant Ridge. Pleasant Ridge was supposed to be full of tenants we all had seen rumored or in your case had actually seen the plans for, yet most of the bigger names that weren't anchors (Fresh Market, Parisian, Borders) held out for something better. All of the sudden RED closes on the land and now dozes the whole site in basically no time? The timing just suggests to me that RED got a lot of Schickel's preferred tenants to jump ship to their development, possibly because they already had other similar tenants going with them. If that's the case there's much less risk to this project.

If the development caters to six-figure incomers living in West LR or in the Heights its location is fine, it doesn't need to have easy interstate access to people from places like Malvern and Jacksonville that don't know LR. If it's more of a middle-end development it would be a huge problem.

I would wager Deltic put a million specifications on what they want this project to be like, especially regarding facades and types of restaurants. They've kept out fast food and cheaper businesses and I'm sure they won't allow Promenade to be anything but first rate because if it were it would affect their bottom line.

Even though I've never even been to Little Rock, I would think the developers of the project know what they are doing. And the location will end up being a plus to the community. Speaking from experience of an area (Orlando) that has developed rapidly and has both types of development (near an expressway and off the beaten path), the off the beaten path type of development benefits the community much more and brings a sense of place and more of a true , stable village and is more of a permanent part of a community. It actually incorporates the development in to the city and makes it a true neighborhood, much more urban appeal. The "close to the exit on the interstate" mall uses the interstate as the main street and does not develop a true neighborhood. And every few years a "new" major exit comes along a little further up the highway and can attract another new development surrounding the new exit and render the current development (mall) obsolete. It sounds like your community has some sound urban planning happening with this project that could make it a permanent part of your city. So many malls these days along the interstate only last 15 to 20 years before they begin their downfall. Hopefully I was able to get my point across without too much babbling. This sounds like a first rate project in a first rate location, hope it works out well for your community!

[LRguy21]

I've been told by a fairly reliable source that the Apple store is going to be a no-show. BOO. Let's hope they change their mind.

It doesn't surprise me, but its sad! This was going to be THE store at the promenade. I really hope they change their mind, but perhaps they are going to move on another location. Perhaps Park Plaza. I doubt midtowne, is there room there for them?

On a side not, i am really excited about Anthropologie. Its has nothing I like, yet it shows signs that this center still has some WOW factor. Anthropologie, also owned by Urban Outfitters, is very high end and will bring lots of people to this center. Maybe next will be an URBAN!!

If only J Crew would now open

[Architect]

Even though I've never even been to Little Rock, I would think the developers of the project know what they are doing. And the location will end up being a plus to the community. Speaking from experience of an area (Orlando) that has developed rapidly and has both types of development (near an expressway and off the beaten path), the off the beaten path type of development benefits the community much more and brings a sense of place and more of a true , stable village and is more of a permanent part of a community. It actually incorporates the development in to the city and makes it a true neighborhood, much more urban appeal. The "close to the exit on the interstate" mall uses the interstate as the main street and does not develop a true neighborhood. And every few years a "new" major exit comes along a little further up the highway and can attract another new development surrounding the new exit and render the current development (mall) obsolete. It sounds like your community has some sound urban planning happening with this project that could make it a permanent part of your city. So many malls these days along the interstate only last 15 to 20 years before they begin their downfall. Hopefully I was able to get my point across without too much babbling. This sounds like a first rate project in a first rate location, hope it works out well for your community!

Metrowester - nice comments...thanks for the compliments! You're posts are always welcome here, and I'm always glad to see you contribute even though you're not from the area.

You do make some very valid points. However, in the larger context, Little Rock is at best a medium-sized market, and the real rub we've all had (who live here) is that we've had three to four mid-size developments happen all at the same time, which has watered down interest from retailers. Chenal Promenade - in a way - has the most potential because it is unquestionably the nicer, high-end development with the better mix of retailers, but it's also the furthest off of a main thoroughfare. In time, as you point out, that will be good for the Chenal area, but as national retailers look at it...like Apple...they may give pause to its (relatively) remote location. I'm optimistic long-term however for this development.

[jnholmes]

I'm not trying to question anyone but I seriously doubt that anyone has any inside information about Apple. Their own employees know very little about upcoming products, stores, etc... Apple is VERY tight-lipped.

[gman430]

I've been told by a fairly reliable source that the Apple store is going to be a no-show. BOO. Let's hope they change their mind.

I would be very suprised to see them say no to the entire Little Rock metro area seeing how they recently just announced new stores for Lexington, KY and Greenville, SC. Hope i'm right.

[LR501]

I live fairly close to the promenade and I go there quite a bit. I love Ya Ya's! But I would like to see more stores open up, especially an Apple store. If you don't mind me asking, who is your reliable source that said apple was going to be a no-show?

[bchris02]

I live fairly close to the promenade and I go there quite a bit. I love Ya Ya's! But I would like to see more stores open up, especially an Apple store. If you don't mind me asking, who is your reliable source that said apple was going to be a no-show?

Apple has removed Little Rock off its official list of upcoming openings. The be honest, the only place in Little Rock I can see Apple going would be Park Plaza, and because its so tiny the chances of that happening are slim. Apples stores usually open in large, regional shopping centers, of which Little Rock has none. In addition, Apple will open in an area where there is a large regional market for their products, a high education level, and a sizable Generation Y population. While Little Rock as a whole has a higher education and income level than the rest of the state, the city is at the heart of a very backward, ignorant, uneducated state that would likely have little interest in brands like Apple. I know people in Fort Smith who boycott Apple products because they say the Apple logo represents sin and Eve's bite off the apple in the Garden of Eden. If anywhere in Arkansas is to get an Apple store, it would be NWA. I just see it being more successful up there than it would be in Little Rock given the regional demographics.

[Architect]

Apple has removed Little Rock off its official list of upcoming openings. The be honest, the only place in Little Rock I can see Apple going would be Park Plaza, and because its so tiny the chances of that happening are slim. Apples stores usually open in large, regional shopping centers, of which Little Rock has none. In addition, Apple will open in an area where there is a large regional market for their products, a high education level, and a sizable Generation Y population. While Little Rock as a whole has a higher education and income level than the rest of the state, the city is at the heart of a very backward, ignorant, uneducated state that would likely have little interest in brands like Apple. I know people in Fort Smith who boycott Apple products because they say the Apple logo represents sin and Eve's bite off the apple in the Garden of Eden. If anywhere in Arkansas is to get an Apple store, it would be NWA. I just see it being more successful up there than it would be in Little Rock given the regional demographics.

I agree with little of what you posted. First, Apple doesn't post an official list of upcoming stores...at least not until they are about to open. As such, Little Rock was never on the list, only the job opportunity page, and that was omitted a long time ago. Second, Park Plaza is a relatively high-end center, arguably the nicest in the state. Apple doesn't care how large the development is as long as it is complementary to their brand, which Park Plaza is - though I would agree they may have some issue/concern about the available developments in the market (the fact that there is no clear focal point - much discussed on this forum). Third, the whole point is that Apple is located in NUMEROUS markets that are smaller, less educated and less affluent than Little Rock. I find it inconceivable that they would overlook this market. I think Apple would do well in Little Rock and NWA. I cannot imagine why you would think NWA would be a better fit.

That being said, I don't have any evidence about Apple's intention either way. Nor do you. Maybe they're coming, maybe they're not...they certainly HAD intended to. If Apple isn't coming, it's possibly because of some dissatisfaction with current retail location options, not the market. If that is in fact the case, we're in trouble...and this will legitimize all of the concerns here about the numerous, mediocre developments rather than one new, major center.

Conspicuous absence as represented here:

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/population_density.html

[bchris02]

I agree with little of what you posted. First, Apple doesn't post an official list of upcoming stores...at least not until they are about to open. As such, Little Rock was never on the list, only the job opportunity page, and that was omitted a long time ago. Second, Park Plaza is a relatively high-end center, arguably the nicest in the state. Apple doesn't care how large the development is as long as it is complementary to their brand, which Park Plaza is - though I would agree they may have some issue/concern about the available developments in the market (the fact that there is no clear focal point - much discussed on this forum). Third, the whole point is that Apple is located in NUMEROUS markets that are smaller, less educated and less affluent than Little Rock. I find it inconceivable that they would overlook this market. I think Apple would do well in Little Rock and NWA. I cannot imagine why you would think NWA would be a better fit.

That being said, I don't have any evidence about Apple's intention either way. Nor do you. Maybe they're coming, maybe they're not...they certainly HAD intended to. If Apple isn't coming, it's possibly because of some dissatisfaction with current retail location options, not the market. If that is in fact the case, we're in trouble...and this will legitimize all of the concerns here about the numerous, mediocre developments rather than one new, major center.

Conspicuous absence as represented here:

http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/population_density.html

Are the less affluent markets that Apple is located in as small or smaller than Little Rock? What about the surrounding regions? The reason I believe NWA would be a better fit is #1 they do have a focal development, and #2, there is a large young population there because of the college presence. Little Rock is affluent by Arkansas standards but its old money as opposed to NWA which is youth and new money. Apple would sell better in that kind of market.

[Architect]

Are the less affluent markets that Apple is located in as small or smaller than Little Rock? What about the surrounding regions? The reason I believe NWA would be a better fit is #1 they do have a focal development, and #2, there is a large young population there because of the college presence. Little Rock is affluent by Arkansas standards but its old money as opposed to NWA which is youth and new money. Apple would sell better in that kind of market.

First, Little Rock (as is NWA) is relatively affluent and educated by national standards, not Arkansas (at least the city proper). Furthermore, LR is substantially larger and more affluent than NWA (reference the data below for each MSA). And yes, there are several examples of smaller and less affluent markets, such as Des Moines and Jackson, MS to name a few (though both have a clearer retail focal development, which may be a key factor as I mentioned).

Second, I would agree that NWA has a clearer focal development (Pinnacle Hills Promenade) and a relatively young base due to the university, but the Little Rock market is significantly larger (though frankly, I would bet there are as many college students..and in fact likely more in the LR MSA than NWA).

DEMOGRAPHIC DATA:

Little Rock MSA

MSA Population 685,488 (2009 est)

CSA Population 862,520 (2009 est)

Median Household Income $37,912

Median Family Income $44,572

Per Capita Income $18,305

NWA MSA

MSA Population 420,876 (2006 est)

CSA Population n/a

Median Household Income $32,469

Median Family Income $38,118

Per Capita Income $16,159

Jackson, MS MSA *city data only...couldn't track down MSA

MSA Population 540,866 (2009 est)

CSA Population 568,847 (2009 est)

Median Household Income $30,414

Median Family Income $36,003

Per Capita Income $17,116

Des Moines MSA

MSA Population 562,906 (2009 est)

CSA Population 631,845 (2009 est)

Median Household Income $44,667

Median Family Income $52,617

Per Capita Income $21,253

Note 1: Little Rock CSA is substantially higher

Note 2: Des Moines income level is higher

Note 3: Jackson overall is significantly weak

[VistaLakes01]

Apple has removed Little Rock off its official list of upcoming openings. The be honest, the only place in Little Rock I can see Apple going would be Park Plaza, and because its so tiny the chances of that happening are slim. Apples stores usually open in large, regional shopping centers, of which Little Rock has none. In addition, Apple will open in an area where there is a large regional market for their products, a high education level, and a sizable Generation Y population. While Little Rock as a whole has a higher education and income level than the rest of the state, the city is at the heart of a very backward, ignorant, uneducated state that would likely have little interest in brands like Apple. I know people in Fort Smith who boycott Apple products because they say the Apple logo represents sin and Eve's bite off the apple in the Garden of Eden. If anywhere in Arkansas is to get an Apple store, it would be NWA. I just see it being more successful up there than it would be in Little Rock given the regional demographics.

Well, at this point we will just have to blame any negativity with retail on the economy, For a project like Chenal top even break ground at this point is a miracle within itself. So instead of focusing on Apple, lets just focux on the actual shopping center being built. If it is getting built, there will be a day when Apple returns to its list of tenants. Please be patient and lets watch Chenal grow bit by bit. With each store opening you will have the latest flagship of each tenant. Good Luck Little Rock!

[WLRDore]

First, Little Rock (as is NWA) is relatively affluent and educated by national standards, not Arkansas (at least the city proper). Furthermore, LR is substantially larger and more affluent than NWA (reference the data below for each MSA). And yes, there are several examples of smaller and less affluent markets, such as Des Moines and Jackson, MS to name a few (though both have a clearer retail focal development, which may be a key factor as I mentioned).

MSA than NWA).

I'm going to have to agree with Architect on this one. Little Rock is ripe for an Apple store. With some of the recent developments coming out of NWA, Little Rock (IMO) would sustain an Apple store better. I am an Apple user and I know at least two dozen others that are not just Apple users, but devout followers of the brand. Irregardless of "demographics", I think the LR market is ready for an Apple location and that they would be foolish for not coming here.

I seem to have struck a nerve for those salivating over the possibility of Apple coming. Sorry. For whomever asked, I have multiple sources. That's why I even made the statement. All of them are local and know about who is negotiating with Apple to bring the store here. I'll go a step further and say that it's not a question of if but when and where the store opens. They'll probably land somewhere closer to Midtown. Take that for what its worth. And for the other person who said that Apple is tight lipped, they are. But there's a reason why people knew the ipad was going to be a tablet. Can't keep secrets completely secret. And it's no secret that Apple is one of the fastest growing retailers in the country and that they are a mobile devices company. And if it's anything that we love here in Little Rock, it's our mobile devices. Stroll through Panera any day of the week.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Architect

[Architect]

I'm going to have to agree with Architect on this one. Little Rock is ripe for an Apple store. With some of the recent developments coming out of NWA, Little Rock (IMO) would sustain an Apple store better. I am an Apple user and I know at least two dozen others that are not just Apple users, but devout followers of the brand. Irregardless of "demographics", I think the LR market is ready for an Apple location and that they would be foolish for not coming here.

I seem to have struck a nerve for those salivating over the possibility of Apple coming. Sorry. For whomever asked, I have multiple sources. That's why I even made the statement. All of them are local and know about who is negotiating with Apple to bring the store here. I'll go a step further and say that it's not a question of if but when and where the store opens. They'll probably land somewhere closer to Midtown. Take that for what its worth. And for the other person who said that Apple is tight lipped, they are. But there's a reason why people knew the ipad was going to be a tablet. Can't keep secrets completely secret. And it's no secret that Apple is one of the fastest growing retailers in the country and that they are a mobile devices company. And if it's anything that we love here in Little Rock, it's our mobile devices. Stroll through Panera any day of the week.

Great follow-up. I think your post clarifies one very open question...your comment was specific to Apple being a no-show at the Promenade, not in the Little Rock market. This wouldn't surprise me (to see them move to another location). What surprised me was (assuming) that they weren't coming to the market at all. I'm glad to know you've got connections that know there is still activity. Good news!

[LR501]

I'm going to have to agree with Architect on this one. Little Rock is ripe for an Apple store. With some of the recent developments coming out of NWA, Little Rock (IMO) would sustain an Apple store better. I am an Apple user and I know at least two dozen others that are not just Apple users, but devout followers of the brand. Irregardless of "demographics", I think the LR market is ready for an Apple location and that they would be foolish for not coming here.

I seem to have struck a nerve for those salivating over the possibility of Apple coming. Sorry. For whomever asked, I have multiple sources. That's why I even made the statement. All of them are local and know about who is negotiating with Apple to bring the store here. I'll go a step further and say that it's not a question of if but when and where the store opens. They'll probably land somewhere closer to Midtown. Take that for what its worth. And for the other person who said that Apple is tight lipped, they are. But there's a reason why people knew the ipad was going to be a tablet. Can't keep secrets completely secret. And it's no secret that Apple is one of the fastest growing retailers in the country and that they are a mobile devices company. And if it's anything that we love here in Little Rock, it's our mobile devices. Stroll through Panera any day of the week.

Awesome! It's good to know that we're pretty confident that Apple will come to Little Rock. I also thought that apple would probably not come to the chenal promenade until I emailed Jim Davis at the promenade asking him if Apple was out of the picture now, and he replied saying it's not out of the picture and they are still working with Apple.

[LRguy21]

Awesome! It's good to know that we're pretty confident that Apple will come to Little Rock. I also thought that apple would probably not come to the chenal promenade until I emailed Jim Davis at the promenade asking him if Apple was out of the picture now, and he replied saying it's not out of the picture and they are still working with Apple.

Thats good! Did he say anything else about new stores?

On a side note, Charming Charlie opened up.

[WLRDore]

I also thought that apple would probably not come to the chenal promenade until I emailed Jim Davis at the promenade asking him if Apple was out of the picture now, and he replied saying it's not out of the picture and they are still working with Apple.

....probably asking the wrong person about specifics. Some of the people that need their products to succeed will always tell you what you want to hear. Just my two cents for what it's worth.

[Architect]

....probably asking the wrong person about specifics. Some of the people that need their products to succeed will always tell you what you want to hear. Just my two cents for what it's worth.

For what it's worth, I was also told by the developer quite a while back that they actually had a signed lease by Apple. Of course, you can get out of anything...