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Fifth Street Pedscape / Ivey's Building Retail Improvements


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I know that it had already been decided that the 5th street parking meter spots were getting eliminated to widen the sidewalk on the Avenue side of 5th. However, had that extra space already been dedicated to that side of the street? Will part of the added width be able to go to the Ivey's side? Will it even be enough added width to comfortably accomodate heavy pedestrian traffic on both sides? I am doubtful. I don't remember the lanes there being especially narrow... they could probably stand to steal a foot or so from each of the lanes too :thumbsup:

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I dunno, that's kinda all i want to do

This is the best I could do to contribute to the Haunted Wheel Barrow tale...  

Wasn't exactly sure where to put this, but they have started some 5th street improvements at the retail spot.  This is all that is there right now.  Doors were open, and there were a few people moving

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I believe I have written this now three times. Okay, now everyone pay attention. :)

Changes that will come to the block of 5th St between Church and Tryon for the Center City Transportation Plan:

1) Removal of street parking.

2) Increase in width of the sidewalks of BOTH sides of 5th Street.

Here is the technical plan: http://www.charmeck.org/NR/rdonlyres/einou...sMap4.24.06.pdf .

Here is the plan for this block of 5th Street.

> 2/2 N NP/NP 2 >>

- "> ... >>" means it will be a one-way street going east.

- "2/2" means BOTH sides of the street will receive level 2 pedestrian classification ("Primary Pedestrian Street = 16' to 22'").

- "N" means that the street will have no median.

- "NP/NP" means BOTH sides of the street will have no parking.

- "2" means there will be 2 travel lanes.

Personally, I suspect that LaTorre knows this as it affects his current businesses, and decided to take advantage of it on the other side of the street by opening the 5th Street side of Ivey's to the retail space inside, just like the Independence building has done over the last few years.

It is a fairly classic thing to do. Buy underutilized real estate ahead of a public improvement, then reorient it to take advantage of the public improvements, creating value in that property.

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I hope (and imagine Latore will) keep the indoor corridor aspect of the building. The set up the Independence building has, dual indoor/outdoor access, is certainly something that the tenants of the building capitalize on. I imagine it will change from an open seating area to a walkway.

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  • 4 months later...

Not yet. I'm sure they're just slowly waiting out the leases at this point.

I have walked through there a number of times lately. You can really see what the effect of taking out the parking lane will be. Having that 5 feet of sidewalk with street trees on both sides will really help the pedestrian feeling on that block. Also, taking out the meters would help considerably even if the sidewalk were to stay the same width (which it won't).

You can also see how they could do just what the Independence Center did with steps up from the sidewalk into the higher level of the retail itself. You can picture a few doors and windows there with big sign for a restaurant or some other retail. I really think it will work.

All they have to do is DO it.

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  • 10 months later...

At least two of the local news stations reported tonight that Latorre is planning to move Coyote Ugly into the Ivey's building at the corner of 5th and Church where Daddy's use to be.

It appears that the Ivey's residents and HOA are quite livid at the idea of having to live with the possible problems that Coyote Ugly's could bring.

I agree that the Ivey's location, next to residential (Ivey's & Avenue), a church and a historic cemetery, is just not the right location and would result in a constant battle between the club and it's neighbors.

What do you think? :dontknow:

Edited by jf Uptown
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Um, hasn't that spot been a bar for years? Granted, they were mostly unsuccessful bars with out many customers, but there was long the potential to have noise and drunk people.

We'll see, but I'm not sure the NIMBYs will win, just as a similar effort didn't succeed at Factory South when a tavern replaced Original Pancake House.

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Personally, I don't care for Coyote Ugly. However, these arguments make NO since. This corner has always had a bar in it....despite having a church and a cemetary there. Oh, and there's Stool Pigeons, HOM, Attic, Madisons, Connelly's, Ri-Ra, Grand Central, Phils, Brick and Barrell, etc. all on the same street corner.

However, I do wish that something classier that I would actually go to would be moving there. I don't know a single person who has ever been in the Coyote Ugly on College. Most people in town don't know we even have one and I don't see how they stay in business. I'm wondering if the real concern isn't that it's going to be a "rowdy" bar but that it just so tacky....like putting a Joe's Crab Shack in your building.

It's really going to clash with the outdoor dining from the swanky new Thai restaruant going in across the street in the Ave.

Oh well, it'll probably be out of business by Fall....

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I'm thinking it will work too, now that it's in a higher foot traffic area. BAR Charlotte remains packed 5 nights a week, so I'm sure this will too since it's along the same vein.

A bookstore/coffee shop would be more than welcome...someone mentioned tic toc, but I haven't been there.

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Press release from Ivey's Manager:

"Coyote Ugly is a national company and will operate a restaurant and bar. They have purchased the assets of Daddy's restaurant and have signed a lease agreement, so we are legally bound to lease this space to them. Nevertheless, we believe they will be good neighbors. They have an excellent record in 15 sites throughout the country, and we expect them to abide by all our laws. We also believe it is unfair to oppose or criticize this business so harshly before they even open for business."

So it appears that they will be operating a restaurant now as well.

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Trashy girls dancing on bars? Many of my friends will be there. Welcome to 4th Ward!

MC, you implying your friends are the trashy girls or the ones going to watch? :alc: Haha, I have a feeling this bar will do fine at this location. It has survived so far in a rather finicky uptown bar scene.

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Daddy's has terrible food, so I'm not sure this is a plus to have that still operating during the day for food.

Friends of Fourth Ward appear to be opposed to this concept, and sometimes, they hold a lot of sway. I'm not sure how this will turn out, but it seems that that will hurt. It also seems odd for that concept to be going in across from a church, daycare, and cemetary, and directly underneath residences.

Personally, I think this is just like many of the other bars around there, but certainly that brand has the trashy branding that raise some fears for people living nearby. I'm not sure anyone would care if Daddy's Grill had girls dancing on the bars at 2am, but when you put a brand that everyone knows because of the movie, people start freaking out.

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NIMBY could be applied to everything though, but there really are things that aren't compatible. This one might be a fine line, but really, it is not that great to have a bar open so late directly underneath residential condos. There are plenty of places a block away where this can go under office projects or some other use that doesn't have an incompatible activity at the same time (ie, someone trying to sleep at 1am).

I am on the fence on this, as CCP and FOFW are both trying to say that College Street would be more compatible, while being incompatible at this specific location. Typical NIMBYism doesn't want it anywhere near them, while CCP is saying keep it uptown, but put it in the zone that is suited to this use, not someplace where it will strike conflict.

Everything has a fine line, but as we create more and more of these street-fronting retail spaces a floor or two below residential units, we really have expect that they won't have a lot of noise past, say, midnight. The whole POINT of a residence is to have somewhere to sleep, so if you can't do that, then what is the point?

I think there are also plenty of ways where this type of thing might have evolved more slowly and under the radar, like if a restaurant slowly expanded into the last night hours, or something like that. But you have right now a spot that has been used as a low key restaurant site for a decade or more, and then suddenly being rented to a place that is focused on late night hours. It makes sense that these groups spoke up, as their entire purpose is to speak up for existing residents and to help the city evolve to a successful place for all types of urban uses.

We'll see how it turns out, though, it didn't work for the residents of Factory South, right?

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