Frontier Airlines is coming to Memphis International

[memville]

I dont think a hub in stl would make much sense, because that would mean they would have two hubs in the midwest. I think they really want to get into the southern market more. Frontier is tens times better than airtran, plus going through atl is always a hassle. I really think memphis or nashville would make a prime location for a hub. I would love to see that happen.

[tennreb]

I dont think a hub in stl would make much sense, because that would mean they would have two hubs in the midwest. I think they really want to get into the southern market more. Frontier is tens times better than airtran, plus going through atl is always a hassle. I really think memphis or nashville would make a prime location for a hub. I would love to see that happen.

[Lexy]

It is impossible to build a hub in Nashville because Southwest is entrenched there. The next best place for a hub would be New Orleans. Although Southwest is there too, it doesn't have near as many flights out of there as at BNA. Although much of the city will never come back, the metro area is huge when you consider Baton Rouge, all of South Louisiana, South Mississippi, and the Mobile area. MEM is currently preferred as a hub because FedEx keeps operating costs at the airport extremely low, and the city is ideally geographically located. However, if a new MSY is constructed as planned and a high speed commuter rail line is built to connect the region to it, then it could be a very successful hub and international gateway to South America.

[northernbizzkit1]

I have researched the airport fillings that contian individual airlines O&D numbers. Frontiers is very nice compared to others on the Denver route like WN and UA. As for the butting of heads, that's common place for them to do so here, but if they have the traffic, they will grow the market regardless of what WN thinks about it or not. That's the nature of the business. I know we have been told that BNA is slated to start off (and this it total speculation on the part of a Frontier higher up, so take it with a grain of salt) with one A320 to DIA and the CUN route will be A320, so that's two and their adding a fourth flight to DIA this spring from BNA, but it's on a A319.

The California stations are some that haven opened, or expanded, with the P2P flying model that F9 is setting out. Their SFO-LAX flight is a disaster, it was made known that it was by the CEO in a recent conference call, but they are sticking with it. It's the Mexican routes that they covert the most at F9. Why? Because they beat WN to it fair and square and that's their bread and butter money routes.

The reasons they didn't just expand BNA is because they saw an opening at MEM and wanted to slot themselves in that opening and gain marketshare now. Just like JetBlue did here in August. We didn't really need another flight to NY, but we got it because the others flying the route wouldn't budge on their ticket prices. The lack of a dominate LCC at MEM played hard into the decision to come there I would assume. They are adding a fourth 319 to the BNA route this spring, so.......But I agree, you may just see a slew of "Focus City" type operations around the country from them. But the idea of them having as many as WN is a bit far fetched just because of equipment limitations alone.

If you listen enough to the crap on aholes.net, St. Louis is the next major super hub and Raleigh is the next major super hub. Those guys keep making things up as they go along, so I wouldn't pay any attention to them unless you need a good laugh. LOL!!! They are, for the most part, full of crap.

[northernbizzkit1]

MSY will grow as much as that metro grows (which isn't much right now, nor will it be for a long time). To me, New Orleans has no chance at becoming a hub of any airline, Focus City perhaps but not a hub. But having Southwest here means nothing to an airline that wants to hub it. All that matters to them is catchment area (which Nashville has a huge one) and O&D traffic to start off with (which Nashville has a huge amount of). There is plenty of room if anyone wanted to come here, all that needs to happen is an incentive package from the city and the state and there you pretty much go, outside of the hurdles in Washington to overcome of course. Nashville has remained an attractive city for airlines or else you wouldn't see such a large presence of them here to start with. I think BNA is perfectly positioned for a possible new southern hub and the airlines are very much aware of that. On a side note: Nashville and St. Louis have been tossed around in the Frontier offices as locations for a future Focus or Hub operation for the south. That has been confirmed from a number of sources within BNA and STL's governing bodies.

Now, before this becomes a pissing match between the two cities, lets stay on topic a little bit.

[Lexy]

Perhaps before Katrina, but I agree with you...New Orleans doesn't have a chance of being a hub right now. Perhaps it is enough of a destination now to be a focus city. As I said before, I'll be interested to see how the O&D at BNA, STL, and LIT change considering that airlines such as Frontier and Southwest made it popular for people to drive quite a bit of time to fly out of those airports. Louisville and Memphis will now have Frontier, so my guess is that you may see a dip in the O&D at those three airports. I have heard a slew of cities mentioned for "the next hub" for Frontier. Even before this news about MEM, I heard Memphis as an option as well as Nashville, St. Louis, Raleigh, and even such places as Tampa and Orlando. Granted, if Frontier and AirTran merged, they would have an Atlanta hub. I'm just surprised that if Nashville and St. Louis are being tossed around for future hubs, why aren't they really increasing service at either one? One more flight to Denver isn't really much for a place destined to be your next hub...i'd much rather see something more concrete

[tennreb]

Good points, but I honestly dont think the numbers will dip much just based on Frontier alone. People go to those airports to fly Southwest and American, not Frontier. That's just basic common knowledge around here. Frontier is just another spoke in the wheel to those who know no better. The reasons Frontier hasn't grown the other cities though is a lack of aircraft to fill those roles and a focus on more California services. That in and of itself will limit the growth in other parts of the country all together. Plus, Frontier is trying to build up a better east coast network. Can't start the hub if you have nowhere to go. But how can you say the O&D is skewed at LIT and BNA? Based on the recent growth in Nashville, that alone translates into a healthy and vibrant air travel marketplace. I don't see how you can honestly say that, especially when those numbers are a pure indicator of the size of the BNA, and LIT, catchment areas? I think many on here forget, BNA was a hub at one point due to its market capabilities. It was closed due to redundancy with AA's RDU and MIA operations. Not because there wasn't enough traffic coming through. Wanna talk about voids in airtravel, look up the road on I-40 at your neighbors up here and then talk about voids. LOL!!! There are still gaping holes left in the destinations from here that WN has yet to fill due to a lack of aircraft in their system. I can think of three cities right now that are not served non-stop from here that see over 200 PAX a day from BNA on connecting routes to MDW. But I digress.

FWIW, SDF is only a E170 market twice a day. That certainly will not trump someone who would rather fly mainline four times a day as opposed to regional service twice a day. Let's not fool ourselves here. LOL!!! What you see on f aFrontier flight here in Nashville is almost purely BNA marketshare, not someone who drives from Knoxville, Memphis, or Louisville.

[northernbizzkit1]

Good points, but I honestly dont think the numbers will dip much just based on Frontier alone. People go to those airports to fly Southwest and American, not Frontier. That's just basic common knowledge around here. Frontier is just another spoke in the wheel to those who know no better. The reasons Frontier hasn't grown the other cities though is a lack of aircraft to fill those roles and a focus on more California services. That in and of itself will limit the growth in other parts of the country all together. Plus, Frontier is trying to build up a better east coast network. Can't start the hub if you have nowhere to go. But how can you say the O&D is skewed at LIT and BNA? Based on the recent growth in Nashville, that alone translates into a healthy and vibrant air travel marketplace. I don't see how you can honestly say that, especially when those numbers are a pure indicator of the size of the BNA, and LIT, catchment areas? I think many on here forget, BNA was a hub at one point due to its market capabilities. It was closed due to redundancy with AA's RDU and MIA operations. Not because there wasn't enough traffic coming through. Wanna talk about voids in airtravel, look up the road on I-40 at your neighbors up here and then talk about voids. LOL!!! There are still gaping holes left in the destinations from here that WN has yet to fill due to a lack of aircraft in their system. I can think of three cities right now that are not served non-stop from here that see over 200 PAX a day from BNA on connecting routes to MDW. But I digress.

FWIW, SDF is only a E170 market twice a day. That certainly will not trump someone who would rather fly mainline four times a day as opposed to regional service twice a day. Let's not fool ourselves here. LOL!!! What you see on f aFrontier flight here in Nashville is almost purely BNA marketshare, not someone who drives from Knoxville, Memphis, or Louisville.

[northernbizzkit1]

I agree that BNA won't take much of a hit because of these flights in MEM. There will be a small loss, but not a huge one. If a LCC sets up a large operation here, then that will change. What Frontier is offerring really isn't a whole lot more than AirTran. Since NWA is adding significant capacity on these routes plus an additional route to Seattle, competition will be fierce. However, Frontier is probably going to survive because so many people will use the flights for an inexpensive west coast connection. What hurts it, though, is that the first DEN flight is at 6 AM. That is too early for most people. I predict the LAS flight will be wildly successful and they may end up adding additional capacity on this route. The Orlando flight isn't going to survive. There's just too much capacity on that route. I think an HOU or DFW route would have been better, or even a flight to LAX.

[cdarr]

I agree that BNA won't take much of a hit because of these flights in MEM. There will be a small loss, but not a huge one. If a LCC sets up a large operation here, then that will change.

What Frontier is offerring really isn't a whole lot more than AirTran.

[Lexy]

Hey NB, let's just agree to disagree on this and move on. I have seen numbers that would suggest that the majority of O&D @ BNA is local and non-local (i.e. Bowling Green, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Western KY, Northern Alabama, and Middle Tenneessee primarily). Some do fly out of here from MEM, but there really isn't many that do on a regualar basis. Certainly not enough to get too worried about. Frontier is expanding, and MEM was a good place to go to due to the lack of competition down there. Not because everyone was wasting gas to drive up here and catch a flight to ANOTHER HUB. That's just not logical given the price of gas, lack of connections, and the overall distance involved here.

[northernbizzkit1]

Hey NB, let's just agree to disagree on this and move on. I have seen numbers that would suggest that the majority of O&D @ BNA is local and non-local (i.e. Bowling Green, Chattanooga, Knoxville, Western KY, Northern Alabama, and Middle Tenneessee primarily). Some do fly out of here from MEM, but there really isn't many that do on a regualar basis. Certainly not enough to get too worried about. Frontier is expanding, and MEM was a good place to go to due to the lack of competition down there. Not because everyone was wasting gas to drive up here and catch a flight to ANOTHER HUB. That's just not logical given the price of gas, lack of connections, and the overall distance involved here.

[Lexy]

Agreed. We must get our numbers from different sources as well as part of the reasoning for Frontier's expansion into Memphis. Have a good one!

[ricky_the_great]

oh dear, theres lexy again dont know why hes here

[Lexy]

oh dear, theres lexy again dont know why hes here

[bluff2085]

^yeah, way to 'agree to disagree and move on'

[Lexy]

^yeah, way to 'agree to disagree and move on'

[northernbizzkit1]

We must. I get mine from the source, the MNAA Board. Who or where do you get yours??? Airliners.net or the Commercial Appeal? I hope neither one of them. Neither of which is a real good source for factual information when it comes to numbers at airports. Wasn't the CA the one that said the State was trying to keep Memphis hush-hush about Toyota in Arkansas? That is just a hoot to see, let alone try to believe. The bias on that rag runs as deep as the Memphis bias on this board. I take both sources (and this board) with a large grain of salt.

Frontier is on a expansion parade, it was only logical to go to MEM given it's pathetic LCC presence. The numbers I have seen, which are the numbers that matter, do not suggest a large contingent from MEM flying on F9 flights at BNA. Simple as that, end of story. Until you can justify paying for a plane ticket and then paying for gas (which hovers around $2.50 a gallon) just to fly "cheaper" from another airport with less connections, two and a half hours away, then I might take you seriously. Until then, that is just a falsehood that someone has got you believing. Your argument makes no logical common sense NB, and the scary thing is you should know that. LOL!!

[Fellowmann20]

And then your $.02 worth just to ag it on. You guys are the toast of the town when it comes to maturity and class. No wonder you are leaps and bounds ahead of Nashville on both a regional and national level.

I'm through with this. When play time is over and the children go back inside, I may come back and have a civil conversation with the mature adults on here. Until then, enjoy recess while it last. The time to grow up is starting to pass many of you behind.

So many of you on here (Memphis forum) are so out of touch with reality that if it came up and slapped you in the face you wouldn't know what it was. You guys have got to get out more and stop being so uber-sensitive toward your town.

[ricky_the_great]

He has the urge to put down Memphis every chance he gets... and the moment he tries to be sincere towards memphis it lasts about 20 minutes before his/her cynisism take over and hes back again insulting and attacking us. Just about every time you come here on the Memphis forum you fight and attack us all. If I went on to the nashville forum and treated nashville with such negativity about EVERYTHING, I dont think i would be well liked either. so please, dont let the door hit you on the way out.

[AmandaHugginkiss]

The bias on that rag runs as deep as the Memphis bias on this board. I take both sources (and this board) with a large grain of salt.

[Clobber]

By the time I reach M'boro, I have a little over a tank of gas left to play with,even after driving another 15-20 miles past BNA.

[Memphis10]

Lord Lord....Now if a Memphis forumer came on the Nashville thread...lol....and he says we are the ones being bias?....Um isnt this the Memphis thread?....I never understood why when we (Memphis) say something great about this city we are bias and city boosting. They do the same to Atlanta. Frankly, I hardly ever see us boosting the city at all. Hate it or Not but I believe we has some of the most modest people on this forum....But just go on the Nashville thread....lol....they are having orgasims about the "Siggy" and everything else.

He gets upset with one person and say we all are acting like children. Sad you cant say anything nowadays especially on these forums. Maybe he should just stick to the Nashville Airport threads....he has over half of his post there anyways.

[Rural King]

@ Lexy - We have discussed this before, dont get testy over here in these boards, VERY few Memphis folks come over to the Nashville boards and cause trouble, in fact the last person who did we banned for creating confrontational threads in that forum. I dont allow "outside" forumers bash my forumers/cities in Middle Tennessee or East Tennessee, so I sure "aint" going to let my West Tennessee folks and cities get bashed on either. We tend to keep to ourselves over here and things seem to run pretty smoothly that way. If you dont get along with folks over on these boards than maybe, as suggested before, you should stay on boards where you avoid issues such as these.

Now with that said, we dont need to prod Lexy if he comes over for a constructive discussion and is not causing any issues.

[AmandaHugginkiss]

Do you mean a little over a gallon of gas?