Which city will see a new tall office tower first Winston-Salem or Greensboro

[TheDash]

I see Winston-Salem getting the next office tower because new bussinesses are coming to Winston everyday. The vacancy rates are going down, and i think BB@T will need a knew office soon.

[NCMike1981]

wow.

[CSP]

I think we know this is going fast... My vote goes to Greensboro.

[triadguy37]

I believe Winston will get a new office tower before Greensboro. Personally, I don't think Greensboro will ever see anymore office towers downtown. If any office towers are built in Greensboro, it will be at The Heart of the Triad near PTI. Downtown Greensboro is not in a good location for corporate offices to be located. The location of downtown gso is out of the way. I have people who are not from Greensboro, who ask me where downtown Greensboro is located. They didn't even know Greensboro had a downtown. I think downtown Greensboro will become an entertainment district with restaurants and a few unique retail shops, and possibly a highrise residential. Winston already has the infustructure in place for a great downtown. I personally think downtown Winston is going to boom in the next few years with PTRP and BB&T is looking for a merger of equal size within the next 5 years. Of course that could be bad if they decided to move the corporate headquarters like Wachovia, but if the headquarters remains in Winston, I do see BB&T building a new tower that surpasses the Wachovia Tower.

[suburban george3]

I will have to agree, I think Winston-Salem will get the next office tower. I firmly believe that BB&T is in town to stay and that even if a "merger of equals" happens that city leaders will defintely find a way to keep headquarters in W-S. I think BB&T or even a bigger Targacept may be good candidates for the builders of the tower.

[gso27]

I think it will be Greensboro. Winston's downtown was built on Banking and Tobacco, two industries in flux. Banks tend to get bigger and consolidate their locations in places that already have a considerable stock of finance professionals (Charlotte/Atlanta). Winston is likely to get short changed like it was with Walchovia. Greensboro on the other hand is attracting businesses that could possibly locate U.S. headquarters in the city (Honda Avaiation for instance). Office space demand will grow with the FedEx hub. Some of that will come downtown. If the Heart of the Triad concept does not syphon away office demand in downtown.

[triadguy37]

I think it will be Greensboro. Winston's downtown was built on Banking and Tobacco, two industries in flux. Banks tend to get bigger and consolidate their locations in places that already have a considerable stock of finance professionals (Charlotte/Atlanta). Winston is likely to get short changed like it was with Walchovia. Greensboro on the other hand is attracting businesses that could possibly locate U.S. headquarters in the city (Honda Avaiation for instance). Office space demand will grow with the FedEx hub. Some of that will come downtown. If the Heart of the Triad concept does not syphon away office demand in downtown.

[cityboi]

didnt BB&T layoff office workers in Winston recently? (an article that backs that - http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2...l?from_msnbc=1) I dont think BB&T has any major office expansion plans any time soon. A company that is laying off isnt going to be thinking about creating more office space. Also with the way financial institutions have been over recent years, BB&T might get sucked up by another bank before the bank even gets a chance for major expansion in the future. Wachovia moved its headquarters Jefferson-Pilot is now Lincoln National and it s headquarters is now in Philadelphia. The Triad is good at fostering the growth of financial institution but we are not good at keeping these companies because of more establish financial centers such as Charlotte and Atlanta. The only other major office jobs coming to downtown Winston-Salem are the research park jobs and they arent building skyscrapers there. without support from financial institutions, you wont be seeing any office towers going up with the vacancy in the other towers. Wachovia is certainly not expanding in the Triad. Financial institutions make up the vast majority of Highrise office space in the Triad.

Quite frankly it doesnt matter who will get the next office tower. But technically that would be Greensboro anyway with Triad Tower, despite the fact that it has a large residential component, it will still be looked at as an office building. Buildings dont drive the local economy, but its people and companies like Honda Aircraft and FedEx. To me thats more important than building an office tower. I can name a dozen cities that have far supurior skylines to Greensboro and Winston but I wouldnt trade their economies for anything.

[triadguy37]

didnt BB&T layoff office workers in Winston recently? (an article that backs that - http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2...l?from_msnbc=1) I dont think BB&T has any major office expansion plans any time soon. A company that is laying off isnt going to be thinking about creating more office space. Also with the way financial institutions have been over recent years, BB&T might get sucked up by another bank before the bank even gets a chance for major expansion in the future. Wachovia moved its headquarters Jefferson-Pilot is now Lincoln National and it s headquarters is now in Philadelphia. The Triad is good at fostering the growth of financial institution but we are not good at keeping these companies because of more establish financial centers such as Charlotte and Atlanta. The only other major office jobs coming to downtown Winston-Salem are the research park jobs and they arent building skyscrapers there. without support from financial institutions, you wont be seeing any office towers going up with the vacancy in the other towers. Wachovia is certainly not expanding in the Triad. Financial institutions make up the vast majority of Highrise office space in the Triad.

Quite frankly it doesnt matter who will get the next office tower. But technically that would be Greensboro anyway with Triad Tower, despite the fact that it has a large residential component, it will still be looked at as an office building. Buildings dont drive the local economy, but its people and companies like Honda Aircraft and FedEx. To me thats more important than building an office tower. I can name a dozen cities that have far supurior skylines to Greensboro and Winston but I wouldnt trade their economies for anything.

[blburton]

THIS THREAD IS POINTLESS!!!!

[triadcat]

I wish the Triad cities would work together and not be so competitive........

I could see a new office tower in either Greensboro or Winston-Salem.

[cityboi]

Its wierd. I thought this thread was closed one time before.

[suburban george3]

Its wierd. I thought this thread was closed one time before.

[kwguy]

Before any towers are built in Winston-Salem I would really like to see the Winston Tower and former Wachovia Center filled back up since both are fairly empty. Buildings are pretty, but what use are they if they are empty?

From what I've been hearing about BB&T any merger they seek would probably draw the hq away from Winston (lots of talk about Wells Fargo...). The 30 workers they laid-off are one more step in making the company more attractive and fit for potential buyers. BB&T has a large glut of offices in their building at Five Points as well--if BB&T were to expand offices downtown I wish they would look into the Wachovia Center.

So sad to see Wachovia get out of Winston and move such a large clump of their operations and employees to CIC on WT Harris in Charlotte and to downtown...

[twincity]

first of all, i wanna know the reasoning for reopening this thread.

second, wachovia was bought by First Union, which was based in Charlotte. for some crazy reason, they kept the wachovia name so technically, if you think about it, the real "wachovia" doesnt exist. its only natural for the bank buyer to remain in their city. so this should be the last time anyone says "Wachovia moved to Charlotte."

currently, the only office proposal in the metro is Triad Tower so as of now, it looks like Greensboro will get the next one. but they said they were going to break ground last year with a completion date of '09...still no action?

BB&T merger rumors are nothing new and have been going on for 20 years. Wells Fargo, Citi, and a couple others have been mentioned.

Winston Tower was completely vacant a few years ago and has managed to lease 231,933 (over 50%) of its space. i would look at that as an indicator that theres a a decent demand for downtown office space. the Park building was also vacant and now is the headquaters for Primo water, and a couple of advertising companies. Liberty Plaza, which recently changed owners is now 70% leased with upgrades planned for this year. if this trend continues, a spec tower could be proposed in the next 5 years.

[krazeeboi]

As long as you guys remain civil, this thread will remain open.

[suburban george3]

second, wachovia was bought by First Union, which was based in Charlotte. for some crazy reason, they kept the wachovia name so technically, if you think about it, the real "wachovia" doesnt exist. its only natural for the bank buyer to remain in their city. so this should be the last time anyone says "Wachovia moved to Charlotte."

[cityboi]

first of all, i wanna know the reasoning for reopening this thread.

second, wachovia was bought by First Union, which was based in Charlotte. for some crazy reason, they kept the wachovia name so technically, if you think about it, the real "wachovia" doesnt exist. its only natural for the bank buyer to remain in their city. so this should be the last time anyone says "Wachovia moved to Charlotte."

currently, the only office proposal in the metro is Triad Tower so as of now, it looks like Greensboro will get the next one. but they said they were going to break ground last year with a completion date of '09...still no action?

BB&T merger rumors are nothing new and have been going on for 20 years. Wells Fargo, Citi, and a couple others have been mentioned.

Winston Tower was completely vacant a few years ago and has managed to lease 231,933 (over 50%) of its space. i would look at that as an indicator that theres a a decent demand for downtown office space. the Park building was also vacant and now is the headquaters for Primo water, and a couple of advertising companies. Liberty Plaza, which recently changed owners is now 70% leased with upgrades planned for this year. if this trend continues, a spec tower could be proposed in the next 5 years.

[gso27]

Tobacco is no longer the driving engine in Winston. Anyone familair with the city knows that. Banking is still big in Winston. Wachovia stills maintains a presence there with some of it division headquarted in Winston. Are you aware that the major sponsor of the Greensboro Grasshoppers, First Horizon Bank is considering locating their headquarters in the Winston-Tower in downtown Winston. I wonder why they choose Winston over Greensboro. Greensboro's downtown will never be in the same league as Winston. The Piedmont Triad Research Park in downtown Winston-Salem is going to be huge. I know because I happen to work for WFU Health Sciences, the leading force behind the development of the park. I can say this honestly, because I happen to live in downtown Greensboro. There is never going to be a demand for any more highrise Type A office space in downtown Greensboro. There was plans for a 18 story Federal Courthose, but those plans were put on hold indefinitely. Downtown Greensboro will be a residential, entertainment district, but the thought of major corportations locating in dowtown is somewhat comical. I see all new major development in Greensboro to be located around the Airport, Heart of the Triad. Who knows, maybe one day Greensboro will get a decent skyline, but not in the original downtown area.

[cityboi]

I live in Ohio now, but even I know that tobacco has not been king in Winston for years. I also know that Winston's impressive downtown was built on the strength of two companies that are no longer what they were. The new research park in Winston will add some vitality to it's downtown, but not make it more vertical. It's true that Greensboro has had plenty of new residential and entertainment options in it's downtown, but it's probally not correct to assume that it will never have another highrise office building downtown. Winston prospered greatly from an era that has passed and to a lesser extent so did Greensboro. The key for both cities seems to be attracting new industries that foster conceptual thinking and create real durable goods. Both places seem poised to do both. People move to downtowns because they want something that's not offered in the suburbs. Businesses followed people to the suburbs with office parks and are likely to follow them back to the city in time. Greensboro is in a slightly better position to attract businesses back to it's downtown based on that reasoning.

[twincity]

its obvious that downtown W-S office development is not as well know as residential and entertainment. while Winston may not be seeing the same action as Raleigh, as far as new construction, there are developments...significant ones.

[suburban george3]

didnt BB&T layoff office workers in Winston recently?

[cityboi]

If I had to choose which downtown would get the next office tower Id still say Greensboro. The office vacancy rate in downtown Greensboro is at around 9% which is very low. A 5-story office building has already been proposed for downtown which is a sign that the office market for downtown Greensboro is improving. Its very possible to see an office tower proposal within the next 5 to 10 years. As I said the key to creating a larger downtown office market are the amenities (compact high density residential, services, transportation and entertainment)

Winston-Salem has a much larger office vacancy rate than Greensboro and thats due to the fact that there are more towers. Winston's downtown office vacancy hovers around 25% with Greensboro at 9%. Winston Tower, the Wachovia building and the Park building are the largest office buildings with high vacancies. Vacancy rates and downtown development momentum are indications for where we will see the next office tower built.

[twincity]

cityboi - "Vacancy rates and development momentum are indications for where we will see the next office tower built."

"appraiser Michael S. Clapp's July report, his most recent, any leases signed constitute a win for Atlantic Coast. Despite the high vacancy figures downtown, activity is picking up."

"The Russell Agency in Winston-Salem can't wait to set foot downtown... will renovate a former automotive repair shop...will occupy 7,000 square feet and lease out additional 2,000 square feet, most likely for office space."

[cityboi]

while there is no office only skyscraper being planned in dt Winston, these mixed-use proposals help support the needs for companies looking to relocate downtown. Mixed-use towers are also alot easier to attract tennants and lowers the risk, which is why Triad Tower has gone from office tower to mixed-used. I think we will see an office tower proposal in Greensboro within 5 to 10 years, mabe sooner but I have a feeling the mixed-use towers are going to be more common. Alot of people dont know this because it never became public and the deal fell through before it had a chance to go public. But there was a proposal for a 15 or 16 story office tower overlooking left field of First Horizon Park in downtown Greensboro but the city didnt meet the developer needs in a timely manner so I guess he has decide to build a large lowrise structure elsewhere in the city. That news alone shows its only a matter of time before we see another proposal. And when it happens, it will be unexpected like the First Horizon park proposal would have been. Im sure Downtown Greensboro, Inc is aware of a number proposal that the public may not be privied to yet and who knows, there may be a highrise on the drawing boards somewhere wether its residential or office in nature.