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Renatus on the Hill

jbr12

By jbr12
in Grand Rapids

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pr sc Whistle-Stop

pr sc

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So being a member of a church has "everything" to do with what building you worship in and nothing to do with how you help people? Are you a person that won't associate yourself with something that drives a different class of vehicle (meaning Chevy vs Mercedes)? An article posted mentioned that there are major modifications that need to be done with the building. Maybe the congergation of the church would rather spend $500,000 on the Heartside Community rather than putthing a new roof on. It just sounds like people are more concerned about the "image" of this building than helping others in need. <_<

Think "family home". And, a place where all kinds of sacred things have happened.

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DwntwnGeo Hamlet

DwntwnGeo

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Think "family home". And, a place where all kinds of sacred things have happened.

I understand that several "special" events have happened there, but we all have places like this. Have you lived in your "family home" your whole life? Did you ever have to move to a different neighborhood because your parents thought it was best for their family as a whole? I have many memories of my life that are dear to me, but I certainly don't expect these places to remain in tact forever. Sometimes we must make sacrifices for the better of our family and the future. This congergation or "family" voted to move. They feel this is the best interest for their mission. This was their choice. There must have been a majority of support for this move otherwise I don't think they could have put it up for a vote to the congergation. :dontknow:

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dragt Whistle-Stop

dragt

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I understand that several "special" events have happened there, but we all have places like this. Have you lived in your "family home" your whole life? Did you ever have to move to a different neighborhood because your parents thought it was best for their family as a whole? I have many memories of my life that are dear to me, but I certainly don't expect these places to remain in tact forever. Sometimes we must make sacrifices for the better of our family and the future. This congergation or "family" voted to move. They feel this is the best interest for their mission. This was their choice. There must have been a majority of support for this move otherwise I don't think they could have put it up for a vote to the congergation. :dontknow:

I see, understand and sympathize with the congregations reasoning for moving. I agree that it's up to them when and where they pursue mission. But I do think "they" (meaning current memebers) are merely stewards of the space, they did not build it and do not "own" it. I would argue that it is not their's to sell. Often times the land that is so valuable today was originally granted to these historic churches in the first places (not the case in this instance though). If they no longer wish to steward the space, fine, hand it over to someone else to steward. Or better yet invite other "families" in to help share the responsibility and joy of stewarding what we inherit. But please don't sell off our (yes, 'our') collective history for a quick buck today.

I know not every sacred space can or should be preserved. Things change and we need to adapt. Holding on to sacred spaces should not and does not have to be at the cost of serving and loving our neighbors. That is a false dichotomy.

This is part of a much larger trend in our culture, especially the protestant church (of which I am a part of). There must have been other options, there always are. That building doesn't really need to be condos. I'm just sayin...

I do wish Bethlehem Lutheran well though. I think their plans for the future are exciting and seem to be well concieved. Am I crazy to hope things don't always have to be either/or? Because we seem to get trapped by that alot.

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cnordstrom Unincorporated Area

cnordstrom

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So being a member of a church has "everything" to do with what building you worship in and nothing to do with how you help people? Are you a person that won't associate yourself with something that drives a different class of vehicle (meaning Chevy vs Mercedes)? An article posted mentioned that there are major modifications that need to be done with the building. Maybe the congergation of the church would rather spend $500,000 on the Heartside Community rather than putthing a new roof on. It just sounds like people are more concerned about the "image" of this building than helping others in need. <_<

Yeah, way to oversimplify an argument there, sparky. Lord knows that if you hold on to the historical birth place of a church, you can't possibly help people in other neighborhoods!

This is not an "image" thing, as you so quaintly put it. The fact is, you simply do not have the same feeling of reverence when you sit in a shack as you do when you sit in a cathedral. To claim otherwise is asinine. More importantly, though, is the disregard the elders are showing to the history of that property. My family was part of that church for generations; I remember holding my grandfather's hand outside the church, or sitting on my father's shoulders on a warm spring day, or playing with my cousin in the basement. I remember sitting in the nave as a child, bored to tears with the sermon, but in awe of the artistry of the stained glass and the sheer immensity and grandeur of the building. To think that this gorgeous structure is now going to be nothing more than condos for a bunch of yuppies makes me sick.

So go ahead and keep convincing yourself that this is the right thing to do for the church. I'll be realistic, though, and feel sad that a hundred years of history is being washed away for nothing.

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tamias6 Town

tamias6

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From my own prospective there is a point with the fact that one doesn't get that same since of awe in a normal secular building as one would from a traditional church or even some of the modern worship spaces. Maybe my views of the church are a bit old fashion and stereotypical. But a church's architecture is suppose make one think of Godly thoughts. Rather its a small rural parish establishing an intimate and meditative atmosphere or a grand Roman Catholic Cathedral instilling an in-your-face since of awe, a church is suppose to say "You are in a House of God." A former industrial building just doesn't cut the mustard.

If Bethlehem Church where to add a worship space to its new home that invoked that sacred feel in ether a traditional way or even a modern way I don't think the move would not be such a hard blow to some of its members other than leaving behind the sentimentality of the old building.

Also, no offense to the old church building's new owners, if BLC had sold the church building to another congregation it would not have been such a hard blow either as the building would have remained a consecrated church, retained its sacredness, and continue play its roll as a house of God.

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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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I have no issue with the church moving. A church is people not a building. I even think there is something to be said for churches that don't waste resources on intricate ornamentation but rather meet in the simplest place possible in order to dedicate more resources to doing God's work.

That said, this building exists already, and these old churches are works of art that should be enjoyed by all. Things like this church just aren't built anymore so it's a shame when one is lost, even if it is to adaptive reuse. Given the choice between demolition and reuse I'd pick reuse any day, but the better option is not to leave the building in the first place. I'm sure the condo conversion will be done tastefully and will preserve a lot, but it's more preferable to maintain the church as it stands.

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AlexPKeaton Burg

AlexPKeaton

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Despite my criticisms of this project above, I think it will turn out well. I'm just trying to imagine the possibilities in a converted sanctuary. It seems like there would be space for multiple levels of lofts and plenty of light shining through the stained glass windows. Maybe this can be our next lunch and learn location?

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cityslicker Whistle-Stop

cityslicker

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I agree GRDad, this would be a great spot for the next Lunch and Learn. I would love to know what the plans are. I think it would be great to live in a church like this!

Joe

Talk to Kevin Moore. He has a game plan for this that is pretty cool-----! I am certain he would be up for a Lunch and Learn...just ask him.

Thanks,

JLH

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jbr12 Hamlet

jbr12

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i cant believe they would leave this gorgeous church for a warehouse

In the press article early this year, they cited the main reason for moving was the traditional church not making financial sense due to the repairs that are needed...

Its easy to look at the pictures and make a statement like that. But from all the comments I've heard so far, they enjoy their new space very much.

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tamias6 Town

tamias6

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This would be an interesting lunch-n-learn spot. The developers might be interested in getting some feedback on amenities, room layouts, etc.. I snapped some shots today just to get an idea of the size.

1603898788_f97d33bbd2_b.jpg

1602999763_91976c46c7_b.jpg

It's been awhile since I last kept tabs on BLC so I must have missed something. I thought the church in question was the one located on Michigan street just to the west of VAI.

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LA Dave Hamlet

LA Dave

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Nada. That church is staying a church, and may even be expanded.

Yes, it is a different church. And a different synod. Emmanuel Church, the one on Michigan, is a Missouri Synod church, which is a conservative, historically German-American synod. Bethlehem Lutheran is a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which is a more liberal synod composed of a variety of ethnic groups. I believe that BLC was known as a Scandinavian church. Our neighbors went there, and they were of Finnish descent.

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Moore&Co Crossroads

Moore&Co

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What is the latest scoop on the renovations and time lines??? Kevin...I had no idea you were in the office today and you did not stop in to say hey :( Give us the 411 tomorrow.

Thanks

JLH

Sorry for the delay in getting back to everyone. I've been remiss in checking in with the forum. We've been very busy since getting our approvals (one was needed we were told we didn't need). We'll be putting together a lunch and learn soon and letting everyone get a peek at what we are thinking for the units. The next few weeks will be full of additional work but I am looking forward to meeting everyone interested in seeing what we are up to. Updates and times will be forthcoming soon! :thumbsup:

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