Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[KJHburg]

^^Part of that is Crescent and Tryon Place leaked their design out in 2013 didnt they?  Lincoln Harris started their site work then reluctantly released the building design (due in part to this site)  They play their cards tight but wham bam we have the new 4th tallest building going up and the largest mixed used project in the history of uptown Charlotte.   

[elrodvt]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

America has no world class cities then. Save NYC? Lol. 

Denver has 73,000 folks in "downtown" (not just the CBD) Denver, 700,000 city limits. Somewhere around 10% of the city population. That doesn't seem so off from Center City Charlotte population if we take into account the size of the metro area 

Just pointing out that I think most people in all US cities prefer to be in the 'burbs by large margins. 

 

But I agree with you about the wall. It's atrocious under any circumstance to have this wall along Stonewall in addition to the Westin which sucks along Stonewall and the convention Center.... 3 large city blocks worth of blank walls on a promising street is bull.

I didn't mean no one would want to live in the burbs. Development of more offices or pretty skylines doesn't make more people want to live downtown which is a hallmark of a great city.  

Edited September 21, 2017 by elrodvt

[49er]

What if Mast General Store was planning to occupy the old brick building - would those that are in favor of demolition feel differently then? It has a nice  human scale that is missing with all of the highrises we have. Smaller buildings like this that are adaptable for a variety of uses are almost nonexistent inside the loop .  I wonder if the interior has any of the old floorboards or character left or was it completely sanitized during its 1980's renovation. 

[deleted]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

+++PS Someone needs to set up a poll of all the major high rise buildings in uptown and we vote on our favorites. I am curious what people really like for all I hear is what they dont like.

Great idea!

[caterpillar2]

1 hour ago, elrodvt said:

Blank concrete walls and raised parking podiums are not nice. The amount of retail does not impress so far either. A world class city is somewhere people want to live in the city not the burbs. From what I've read this doesn't move that bar.

Do you think people will see "black concrete walls and raised parking podiums" and leave?  I have been to most world class cities around the world and I don't see  Charlotte as being deficient in any aspect. You can't expect a city to have retail for 2 million people when only one million people living here. Additionally, people normally choose to live in the city or  the burbs.  Even world class cities have people with families with children and  want some space and a community.  I really don't think that that a growing city and suburbs  will stop a place from becoming a world class city. It certainly didn't stop Houston, Chicago, Dallas, Minneapolis, Atlanta and numerous other places.  I believe that Charlotte has very attractive buildings and although  we don't always get the look that we want, it has not slowed down the growth or influx of people.  Our skyline is far superior to many world class cities that have either none or much smaller.  We are not great, but we are greater than many and those annoying blank concrete walls, while undesirable,  won't  stop us from becoming world class. It will take much more.  I believe that I could take a prospective investor around the beautiful areas (suburbs)  of Charlotte and show the person what we have to offer, and they would anxiously stay and invest. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by caterpillar2

[elrodvt]

9 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

Do you think people will see "black concrete walls and raised parking podiums" and leave?  I have been to most world class cities around the world and I don't see  Charlotte as being deficient in any aspect. You can't expect a city to have retail for 2 million people when only one million people living here. Additionally, people normally choose to live in the city or  the burbs.  Even world class cities have people with families with children and  want some space and a community.  I really don't think that that a growing city and suburbs  will stop a place from becoming a world class city. It certainly didn't stop Houston, Chicago, Dallas, Minneapolis, Atlanta and numerous other places.  I believe that Charlotte has very attractive buildings and although  we don't always get the look that we want, it has not slowed down the growth or influx of people.  Our skyline is far superior to many world class cities that have either none or much smaller.  We are not great, but we are greater than many and those annoying blank concrete walls, while undesirable,  won't  stop us from becoming world class. It will take much more.  I believe that I could take a prospective investor around the beautiful areas (suburbs)  of Charlotte and show the person what we have to offer, and they would anxiously stay and invest. 

We're obviously on totally different bandwidths when you think Dallas, Atlanta and Houston are world class cities. To each his own I guess. 

[Dale]

Well, technically they are.

[deleted]

29 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

We're obviously on totally different bandwidths when you think Dallas, Atlanta and Houston are world class cities. To each his own I guess. 

How would you define?  Atlanta hosted an Olympics.  Dallas is a vibrant and growing city.  I don't think Charlotte is ever going to be Paris, London, Hong Kong, Sydney or Toronto.  If you aspire for Charlotte to be world class, what do you have in mind?  San Diego is a great city...is it world class?  I think it's kind of a silly label in the first place (which is why I put it in quotes in my earlier post).  Denver is a fantastic city.  I like it more than Atlanta.  Is it world class?  Who knows?

Maybe we should consult Wikipedia (Global Power Cities):

1. London, 2. New York City, 3. Tokyo, 4. Paris, 5. Singapore, 6. Seoul, 7. Hong Kong, 8. Amsterdam, 9. Berlin, 10. Vienna

Realistically, "world class" and Charlotte probably won't ever be used in a sentence together by people not in the local Chamber of Commerce.  It's still a helluva nice place to live.   

[dylansukkert]

When can we actually see movement on the site?

[Dale]

4 minutes ago, dylansukkert said:

When can we actually see movement on the site?

Hey, hey! Let's not get ahead of ourselves here!

[CLT2014]

15 minutes ago, JBS said:

How would you define?  Atlanta hosted an Olympics.  Dallas is a vibrant and growing city.  I don't think Charlotte is ever going to be Paris, London, Hong Kong, Sydney or Toronto.  If you aspire for Charlotte to be world class, what do you have in mind?  San Diego is a great city...is it world class?  I think it's kind of a silly label in the first place (which is why I put it in quotes in my earlier post).  Denver is a fantastic city.  I like it more than Atlanta.  Is it world class?  Who knows?

Maybe we should consult Wikipedia (Global Power Cities):

1. London, 2. New York City, 3. Tokyo, 4. Paris, 5. Singapore, 6. Seoul, 7. Hong Kong, 8. Amsterdam, 9. Berlin, 10. Vienna

Realistically, "world class" and Charlotte probably won't ever be used in a sentence together by people not in the local Chamber of Commerce.  It's still a helluva nice place to live.   

I think some people are classifying cities that are "world class" based off their thoughts on how good a cities walk-ability/urban living is, whereas other rank a world class city on its economic and cultural importance to the world. 

The walk-ability person would say Denver, Portland, Seattle, etc... are more world class than Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston. The economic / cultural importance person would say Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston are more world class due to their greater degree of importance in the world. The world largely views "world class" by economic and cultural importance.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

Agree with you 100%. However how do we save it? I checked the latest set of minutes from the landmarks commission-a certificate of appropriateness to demolish the building was motioned and looks as if it has already passed provided that the developer place a plaque commemorating the building on site and create a picture book for the commission (no I am not bull$h!+ing).  

 If they're going to tear that thing down why can't they at least save the facades on College and Stonewall streets? In Washington DC they do this kind of stuff all the time, where they build a new building just behind the facades of historical buildings which still gives the street pedestrian scale, yet allows developers to build up so as to not lose value in the site.   The building is not in a derelict state, so it should in theory be very easy to make such a thing happen from a construction standpoint.

I think there is one REALLY big disconnect here for everyone. And thats who the people are that are building iconic structures. In charlotte its certainly not locally based regional real estate developers. Crescent isn't SL Green, building 1 Vandy, or Related Company, building all of hudson yards, those companies have the corporate juggernauts of the world to rely on in NYC to fill their iconic structures. Charlotte's corporate pool is great, but most of those companies have already landed somewhere for the foreseeable future. So you have to rely on corporate relocations both in city and out of city, so you can't really control who your clientele will ultimately be. Basically After Duke decided to build their own, and Wells decided to expand in the burbs, they had US Bank and Ally to work with, and the hope of a corporate relocation.

Lets look at Duke Energy Center. It was designed, financed, and built for, at the time, the 5th largest bank in the United States. They dumped $880M into the building. They also failed as a company most of the way through the process... but I digress. 

The Sears Tower was built for the Sears-Robuck Company, a company that, at the time, employed 350,000 people from sea to shining sea. 

The Empire State Building was basically built by the United States Government, its a pretty big company... It didn't become profitable until 1950, 28 years after completion interestingly enough.

1 WTC was built basically because the USA and the NJ Port Authority had to flex its muscles and say "we will persevere" it was marred with massive amounts of financial problems and cost overruns. 

Tryon Place #1 was built to attract a certain clientele. That clientele, perhaps might have been the largest public utility in the US, didn't work out. Honestly when I look at the original building, I see outrageous costs because of the fact that each floor plan would have been different, and pretty inefficient for the most part.

This Tryon Place reflects a building built to satisfy whatever clientele ends up in it. Efficient floorplates, collaborative space ",a comprehensive corporate community." It engages the street on three corners, and hopefully the fourth. The parking deck is still a problem that needs to be solved, and if we go by the rhetoric we see in the newspaper every time their figure head speaks, they have passion for creating something great. I'll give them credit, they worked with the conditions they had and just might pull off a great project. 

Lastly, Charlotte isn't world class, and it won't ever be. Its iconic towers were a dick measuring contest between two middle aged men trying to one up eachother.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Guest

[deleted]

15 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Lastly, Charlotte isn't world class, and it won't ever be. Its iconic towers were a dick measuring contest between two middle aged men trying to one up eachother.

Yup, and we're glad they had that contest.

[Cadi40]

I'm not disappointed in this project, We need density. Charlottes building boom isn't expected to stop soon and is only expected to get better, Charlotte is predicted to be the fastest growing city in the US by 2040, That's if it's not already growing fast enough. This will be one of the last 300'-400' towers and higher towers will start to be announced as land becomes more scarce and more expensive in Downtown. Soon, The skyline will expand beyond the 277 loop.

[Scribe]

20 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Lastly, Charlotte isn't world class, and it won't ever be.

You've spent a little too much time in the big city and it is getting to your head.

If you're so smart can you tell me who is playing the world series 20 years from now, and who is going to win? How about the next 10 Superbowl's and the final scores for them as well?

Edited September 21, 2017 by Scribe

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Scribe said:

You've spent a little too much time in the big city and it is getting to your head.

If you're so smart can you tell me who is playing the world series 20 years from now, and who is going to win? How about the next 10 Superbowl's and the final scores for them as well?

okay, how about this, its never going to catch up to the world class cities of today. There is a big difference in the climate that those cities came into existence under. Most of these big cities were built using government money. They have their fabulous concert halls, world class transit stations, art museums etc. Things just don't get built like that anymore.

I walked around Glasgow Scotland last weekend, it was once the Number 2 city in the English Empire and it showed. The Kelvingrove Museum is one of the the most stunning buildings I've ever seen, but you know what it was filled with? A third rate museum that combined Natural History, Arms & Armour and French Expressionism, it was weird.

Charlotte barely has an arts endowment, so museums will never be crazy, every single person whines about their tax dollars going to build cultural venues and private companies sure aren't doing the job.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Guest

[deleted]

Just now, Scribe said:

You've spent a little too much time in the big city and it is getting to your head.

If you're so smart can you tell me who is playing the world series 20 years from now, and who is going to win? How about the next 10 Superbowl's and the final scores for them as well.

You sound like my son (who I love dearly) when I tell him he won't play in the NBA (he's 5'7").

RDF doesn't need me to defend him but he obviously loves Charlotte since he is one of the best/most consistent contributors to this board despite living in Brooklyn.  He's just being realistic.  Charlotte ain't Paris...

[Scribe]

9 minutes ago, JBS said:

You sound like my son (who I love dearly) when I tell him he won't play in the NBA (he's 5'7").

RDF doesn't need me to defend him but he obviously loves Charlotte since he is one of the best/most consistent contributors to this board despite living in Brooklyn.  He's just being realistic.  Charlotte ain't Paris...

My point was not about Charlotte not being world class right now, it is his arrogant comment on it never having a chance of being a world class city.

And what does his contribution to the forum have to do with his arrogant comment above? How does his privileged access to information make him love the city more? Especially more then the people who live and breathe Charlotte and how to make it a world class city?

Edited September 21, 2017 by Scribe

[KJHburg]

Lets build the best Charlotte we can.  I don't care if we dont look like Paris, NY, Hong Kong, Vienna, London, San Fran.  I wouldn't live in any of those cities even though several on that list I absolutely love.  Lets look at what Charlotte is. It has a skyline that punches way above its weight. How do I know that read Nashville UP about how they can't get tall buildings. Our new BOAT at Legacy tower would be the tallest in Nashville yet only  #4 here. Our CLT airport is way bigger and has more service than any city our size.  Our location is fantastic between the tallest mountains in eastern North America and the most beautiful beaches on the east coast with every kind of beach vacation you could want.  Our cost of living is moderate compared to most every other larger city.  Most visitors and clients I work with are absolutely stunned at Charlotte in a good way when they come here. Clean, green, much larger than they thought etc.   

As for this Tryon Place building and retail I think it is great.  Dittos for Legacy ( I just not fond of the name) Legacy is the biggest mixed use project ongoing in the southeast now (that Brickell City Center is open LOL)  Charlotte where change is a constant and that is good thing it is like living in a different place every few years with new areas and things to explore. 

[Guest]

Just now, Scribe said:

My point was not about Charlotte not being world class right now, it is his arrogant comment on it never having a chance of being a world class city.

And what does his contribution to forum have to do with his arrogant comment above? How does his privileged access to information make him love the city more? Especially more then the people who live and breathe Charlotte and how to make it a world class city?

My statement about Charlotte never being a world class city is based on the fact that we as a culture are unable to create another New York City, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Paris. We are too busy on our iPhones. Charlotte will become great, its own class of city, I'm not disparaging Charlotte, I quite obviously love Charlotte. 

[deleted]

2 minutes ago, Scribe said:

And what does his contribution to forum have to do with his arrogant comment above? How does his privileged access to information make him love the city more? Especially more then the people who live and breathe Charlotte and how to make it a world class city?

We're getting off topic so this will be my last post on this subject.  First, I admire your zeal and obvious affection for Charlotte.  However, I didn't view his comments as remotely arrogant.  That's not his style, in my opinion.  I don't know what he gets out of sharing his "privileged" information here but I'm sure that we get more out of him than he gets out of us.

[Scribe]

22 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

okay, how about this, its never going to catch up to the world class cities of today. There is a big difference in the climate that those cities came into existence under. Most of these big cities were built using government money. They have their fabulous concert halls, world class transit stations, art museums etc. Things just don't get built like that anymore.

I walked around Glasgow Scotland last weekend, it was once the Number 2 city in the English Empire and it showed.

Catching up sounds a lot like "copying" there is no greatness in being a copycat...

Glasgow also started somewhere...

Quote

The present site of Glasgow... being the furthest downstream fording point of the River Clyde, at its confluence with the Molendinar Burn.

Made it to #2 in the English Empire, would you call it world class today? It certainly has reminders that point to the greatness it once had.

Charlotte, started from a house near an intersection of 2 Native American trade paths... the future is wide open and Charlotte can become anything she wants to be.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Scribe said:

Catching up sounds a lot like "copying" there is no greatness in being a copycat...

Glasgow also started somewhere...

Made it to #2 in the English Empire, would you call it world class today? It certainly has reminders that point to the greatness it once had.

Charlotte, started from a house near an intersection of 2 Native American trade paths... the future is wide open and Charlotte can become anything she wants to be.

I couldn't agree more. I think what I'm trying to say is "World Class" might be a subjective label that shouldn't be strived for.

[Cadi40]

I'm excited about projects yet to come and the City that Charlotte will turn out to be. I could care less if Wikepedia describes us as World Class. Charlotte has a lot going on and theres tons of projects that haven't even been announced. We will continue to grow and develop (I still think the biggest projects are yet to come). Charlotte is unique and World Class in its own way. 

[Dale]

World class is paying $15 for a plate of ramen noodles.