Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[atlrvr]

My biggest problem with saving is the builing is that the sidewalks through there are very narrow, especially along Stonewall....it would be nearly impossible to widen them....

[Miguel]

I'm guessing we won't be seeing renderings for some time since there seems to be no disagreements with Norm.

[Dale]

I guess I'm still trying to ascertain why we won't be seeing renderings for some time.

[dubone]

The sidewalk argument could be made for most buildings uptown. At this point, we have such wide sidewalks in most places around uptown, it seems appropriate to keep the old buildings and their relatively smaller sidewalks. That, or we could remove a travel lane for cars to widen the sidewalks as they were when there were tens of thousands of people living and working uptown when they were built.

Many of the old buildings that people miss uptown had their facades actually in the current streets or sidewalks, and a lot were actually removed as part of street widening. If we are going to tear down the rest of old uptown buildings based on ideal sidewalk widths (as was done with arena, as is likely to happen with 3rd Ward park, Levine's land, etc.), then I'd like to see the city actually build those wide sidewalks now in places where the old buildings are already torn down.

Anyway, I'm perfectly happy to save this building for now, even if it was because of greed.

[Norm2]

I do not think we will see rendering anytime soon, because well, I guess im just not an optimist lol. I mean, if he was going to release rendering, I am sure that someone "in the know" would probably give us a heads up or something that some big news is coming. Other than that, I think its senseless to keep asking "when are the rendering coming" when no other additional info is really available.

[uptownJim]

I do not think we will see rendering anytime soon, because well, I guess im just not an optimist lol. I mean, if he was going to release rendering, I am sure that someone "in the know" would probably give us a heads up or something that some big news is coming. Other than that, I think its senseless to keep asking "when are the rendering coming" when no other additional info is really available.

bad news according to today's Observer -- Trump organization pulls out purchasing Diehl's building (contiguous land to the overall project site): Don't know if this has any effect on the overall project though (thx Tunedm).

TCO Article Link

Edited August 20, 2007 by uptownJim

[tunedmassdamper]

bad news according to today's Observer -- Trump organization pulls out of Charlotte deal:

TCO Article Link

Did you read a different article than I did? They pulled out of the Query Spivey Building deal due to the cost associated with the acquisition and the use of the land not having enough merit to justify it. This was an insignificant portion of the total project plan to begin with.

[monsoon]

^I realize that he might be trying to save face but Diehl did say in that article he didn't know why they pulled out as Trump did not give him a reason. People on this forum, including yourself, seem to be better informed, but the info that you have was not in that article.

[Raintree21]

I think it's pretty clear why they withdrew:

1. They realized they don't really need a plaza on their property. Where have I seen that before?

or

2. They said "screw you to Diehl & Co., we're not paying you more than the property's worth"

I would think this still has no bearing on the overall project. While the lack of information overall is disheartening, one would think that if the whole deal was off, they would announce that at the same time as this.

[monsoon]

Or..

3. they don't feel confident in building the project at all.

[CLT2010]

I'm still not worried; I think raintree is right in that they would announce that they are done if this ruined the project.

[voyager12]

The world will not end if Trump does not build here. I don't think it looks particularly favorable at this point but who knows. Bill Diehl has a rather hardball reputation around town and I am sure the talks between him and the Trump people were rather contentious.

[Charlotte_native]

The article didn't say Trump wasn't building on that block, just that they scrapped plans to buy and use the land that Deihl & Co. own. This has been posted on this site for a week or two now, nothing new. Though the headline makes it a little murky about what is deal is being disbanded, if you read it carefully it is only talking about the Deihl portion.

I suspect they didn't want to be fleeced by the pricing that ever-hardnose negotiating Deihl was likely looking for, especially for a piece of land that can easily by used or discarded for this project. Ahhhh...memories of the family that held out next to the stadium that still own their sliver of hedge along Mint Street.

The world will not end if Trump does not build here. I don't think it looks particularly favorable at this point but who knows. Bill Diehl has a rather hardball reputation around town and I am sure the talks between him and the Trump people were rather contentious.

And they probably enjoyed telling him to keep his building.

[monsoon]

.....I suspect they didn't want to be fleeced by the pricing that ever-hardnose negotiating Deihl was likely looking for, .....

I wouldn't think that Trump is any less "ever-hardnose negotiating"? I don't fault Deihl for sticking to his guns as nobody wants to be taken by Trump. Lets keep in mind that Trump has gone bankrupt in the past and as a result stiffing a lot of people for a lot of money. And the employees of the former Eastern Airlines suffered when he took it over as the Trump Shuttle (another if his failing business ventures) This isn't exactly an angel coming to town looking to spread good fortune on CLT.

[ES Charlotte]

I wouldn't think that Trump is any less "ever-hardnose negotiating"? I don't fault Deihl for sticking to his guns as nobody wants to be taken by Trump. Lets keep in mind that Trump has gone bankrupt in the past and as a result stiffing a lot of people for a lot of money. And the employees of the former Eastern Airlines suffered when he took it over as the Trump Shuttle (another if his failing business ventures) This isn't exactly an angel coming to town looking to spread good fortune on CLT.

when you become a billionaire Mr. Metro.m, then i'll begin to take your advice and listen to your trump slander.. As far as im concerned Trump knows whats hes doing and is a more than capable of handling his business in charlotte and any other venture whatever it may be.

[monsoon]

when you become a billionaire Mr. Metro.m, then i'll begin to take your advice and listen to your trump slander.. As far as im concerned Trump knows whats hes doing and is a more than capable of handling his business in charlotte and any other venture whatever it may be.

Mr ES Charlotte, I would hope that you would have the good sense not to take any financial advice from a web forum such as this. However this forum does not revolve around you and my comments were not meant to give you a "warm feeling" about things. If you actually want to discuss what I posted then please do so, which I note you have not done. Otherwise take your whining elsewhere.

The commentary was meant to point out that Diehl has every right to stick to his guns regardless of who might want to purchase his property and he isn't a lesser person than Trump for doing so. Somehow you completely missed this point.

(aside from that, you don't know how much money I have, geez)

[guy4charlotte]

The original plans for this site did not include the QSM building, and the winning architect's proposal was completed with the assumption that it would NOT be included. This was always seen as an add-on. As has previously been mentioned, a project of this scale should ideally encompass the entire block for aesthetic reasons. However, there is no need for Trump

to pay more than the property's appraised value, especially when its not crucial to the project. I suspect this property's highest value EVER is what has already been offered to the current owners by Trump, since any prospective future owners are going to have to ask themselves what they plan to do with a "historic" 1980's retrofitted small building literally in the shadow of a 1000 foot tower....not to disappoint those who love history, but at the price that is apparently being asked, I doubt any future purchaser would be able to rehab it and make the numbers work, so it's really just a matter of time before this building goes, although Diehl and company may have a hard time selling it to anyone in the future.

[Charlotte_native]

I wouldn't think that Trump is any less "ever-hardnose negotiating"?

I never would have implied so. But often when developers or others begin to put together deals or assemble land, there are always those out there that want more than what they have is actually worth. Often they are in a position to negotiate with a hardball position if their piece of land is a *must* for whatever is in the works. Other times their piece isn't and they end up like the family who owns a piece of land at the corner of Mint and Graham at the stadium. It was worth a pretty decent amount when the parcels were being assembled, but now, with set backs and other requirements that are imposed on any and everyone, their land is practically useless and has minimal to no value.

Other side of the coin, when the land for Latta Pavilion on East Blvd was assembled Dennis Richtor liked to say he bought the country's most expensive Pizza Hut in history. Their parcel was in the direct center of his, at the time, proposed project and the project would not have worked without it.

I'm sure Trumps negotiators aren't any more fun to deal with than Deihl's, but his position isn't as strong as his hopes for piles of gold made him think it was. Who knows, this all still might be part of the negotiations and posturing.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Charlotte_native

[monsoon]

I really was only trying to point out that Diehl has not done anything wrong by being tough with Trump's terms whatever those might be. Publically, at least in the paper, he implied the negotiations where still on going as far as he was aware and it was Trump that walked away without giving any reason.

IMO, it isn't Diehl's fault if this tower isn't built in Charlotte as he isn't proposing it though it's clear the implication is that he has done something wrong in this, which he hasn't.

[kickazzz2000]

The article pretty much summarized what we've found out here from our resident "in the know's" in the past week. I take issue with the title of the article, which was somewhat sensationalized. It implied that the deal was dead, which it doesn't appear to be at this stage.

[Charlotte_native]

IMO, it isn't Diehl's fault if this tower isn't built in Charlotte as he isn't proposing it though it's clear the implication is that he has done something wrong in this, which he hasn't.

I never implied anything like that. I was just addressing the article which was mis-labelled, sensationalist, and not really to the point. Deihl is welcome to do whatever he wants -- my other point was simple, quite often people negotiate themselves out of good deals by looking for more than something is worth. You have every right in the world to do so but everyone isn't willing to pay your price and we have many examples in town where people missed their window and shrewdly negotiated themselves out of getting the best and most for what they had.

I take issue with the title of the article, which was somewhat sensationalized. It implied that the deal was dead, which it doesn't appear to be at this stage.

Better, and less interesting headline, should have been *Trump Decides Not to Add Additional Parcel to Project*

Edited August 20, 2007 by Charlotte_native

[Charlotte_native]

Often by not joining in a larger project, a property can actually diminish in value. Examples: the aforementioned sliver along Mint at the stadium. More current, Park Avenue Plaza - the white single family house on the corner which sits on a non-conforming very small triangular lot. They wanted $2mil to sell for the developer to add that piece to the Park Avenue project. The land value based on everything else around them that was purchased for this was around $32/foot. They were asking $400/foot. Obviously they are welcome to ask whatever they want. The developer passed and moved on without them.

The value of that parcel was worth more as part of a greater whole because the larger project could have used the corner and done more with the land based on set-backs and other factors. Now that this home will stand alone with projects being built around it, with parking requirements and set-backs and its very small lot size, it will actually be worth less down the road than it could have been because any buyer will be very restricted as to what they can do with it.

Diehls parcel has more potential than that, and plenty can be done with it if it isn't part of Trump's project, but it just might turn out that its best use, and best value opportunity, is now. I'm sure the negotiators for the buyers are well aware of this.

Edited August 20, 2007 by Charlotte_native

[Raintree21]

I don't think his value will go down any. 3.8 acres downtown is quite a bit of land. Ghazi paid quite a bit for the 1 acre of land he got at Tryon and Morehead and that's outside of the loop.

[Charlotte_native]

I don't think his value will go down any. 3.8 acres downtown is quite a bit of land. Ghazi paid quite a bit for the 1 acre of land he got at Tryon and Morehead and that's outside of the loop.

I don't really think so either, but larger parcels for larger projects can add value.

[guy4charlotte]

Anyone who might buy this property in the future will have to either rehab it to make the numbers work (doubtful) or sit on it for 12 months before they can begin demo since it is listed as "historic" property