Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[RiverwoodCLT]

200,000 sq. ft. of retail on 2 levels and under ground parking.

40 story is the office tower.

Hotel, residential I see no floor count on this.

[tunedmassdamper]

I would say you can count on at least one more than the Taj McColl, knowing Trump. Maybe as many as 6-8 more - Whatever the case, gonna need a big ole TMD!

[guy4charlotte]

it looks like they're running a connector street right thru the project from S Tryon to the hotel entrance on College with an atrium/skylighty funky thing overhead--this is way beyond awesome!!

[Guest]

I love the buildings, although I am shocked it doesn't have a ten story "TRUMP" sign attached to the top. Maybe the spire is really a massive flag pole.

I don't think you have to worry about this, this is charlotte afterall. Do either of the large banks that are headquartered here have their names emblazoned on their buildings? There are only a couple buildings in downtown and those are hotels, and grant thorton.

[tunedmassdamper]

Maybe he will have a Batman light on top with a big T flashing up in the sky like commissioner Gordon.

[Spartan]

So, where did that 70 story speculation come from? 30 stories is quite a disparity.

[tiblerbrit]

There are two towers, check out the rendering. 40 is the shorter one.

[Andyc545]

So, where did that 70 story speculation come from? 30 stories is quite a disparity.

The small tower is 40 stories- that is the office tower. The 70 or 72 stories was counted on the larger tower.

[Spartan]

Ok, got it. Thanks for the clarification.

[BUILDIT]

Niketown, Niketown, Niketown... If I keep on thinking about it really hard, maybe it will happen?

Or a Saks 5th. Ohhh we could rejuvenate uptown so much, and hopefully stimulate the desire to move highend retail back uptown. So much potential, do this right and it could be great. do it wrong, and we could have another founders hall.

[guy4charlotte]

Niketown, Niketown, Niketown... If I keep on thinking about it really hard, maybe it will happen?

Or a Saks 5th. Ohhh we could rejuvenate uptown so much, and hopefully stimulate the desire to move highend retail back uptown. So much potential, do this right and it could be great. do it wrong, and we could have another founders hall.

this is light years away from founders hall--this is a project on an international scale--i'm not sure everyone really gets this yet....

Edited May 2, 2008 by guy4charlotte

[Miesian Corners]

I agree that it's cool, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about this quite yet. As for Saks and stuff like that, not likely. Retail is hurting (especially department stores) all over and sales of luxury goods have gone flat. As for residential, I have to wonder what Trump's price point is going to be on the condo tower? With all the projects that have been stalled, how is this one going to get off the ground? Trump New Orleans is now two years behind schedule (still not a construction trailer on site), Trump Tower Tampa never got its $300 million loan (it was supposed to have been completed this summer) and is still a vacant lot, and the second Trump Tower in Las Vegas is now on hold due to the slowing economy. Still, I guess we can dream...

[Norm2]

You do have to realize tho, which towers are really Trumps, and which towers he simply sold his name to. The tower in Tampa I know for a fact he just sold his name to, he isnt involved with the project. Let's try to figure out which projects are really his before we assume he can't build anything.

Edited May 2, 2008 by norm21499

[elvigy]

I agree that it's cool, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about this quite yet. As for Saks and stuff like that, not likely. Retail is hurting (especially department stores) all over and sales of luxury goods have gone flat. As for residential, I have to wonder what Trump's price point is going to be on the condo tower? With all the projects that have been stalled, how is this one going to get off the ground? Trump New Orleans is now two years behind schedule (still not a construction trailer on site), Trump Tower Tampa never got its $300 million loan (it was supposed to have been completed this summer) and is still a vacant lot, and the second Trump Tower in Las Vegas is now on hold due to the slowing economy. Still, I guess we can dream...

Well, again, this stuff wouldn't even be opening until well after the current downturn has ended, unless this lasts for several years which would be pretty bad. And of the other condo projects, only 1 has been cancelled/postponed due to lack of sales-the One Charlotte tower, which really was a bit ambitious for Charlotte and had some basic problems in location. 300 South Tryon's problem was more related to the office part as I understand it. And 210 Trade had bureaucratic problems which have supposedly been resolved. The Vue is on track. The Park seems to be suffering from financial problems unrelated to actual sales.

But to be honest, though, after my initial burst of excitement, I am adopting a wait and see attitude as well. It does seem even more ambitious than One Charlotte. I think the fact that it's a mixed use project will hopefully make the difference, though, and get it off the ground.

[tunedmassdamper]

Norm- According to someone in the know, of the US projects, Charlotte and Chicago are really the only ones that are straight Trump developments with no partners or licensing deals. FYI-

[RiverwoodCLT]

It depends on who is willing to offer a big loan for this project. The interest rate should be low at the present, but that does not mean a project will get off the ground. The only hope is that Charlotte economy stays on the positive side and does not tank like in some cities.

If our population keeps growing as it has been in the last 20 years, I think the housing market will fair ok. The condo market may do ok, if a lot of people want to live uptown. I hear most of the sales for condos are from people living in the Charlotte area. If Trump can find enough people who do not want to mow a yard, he might do ok.

The big question is does Trump have some big client for the office space?

[Norm2]

Norm- According to someone in the know, of the US projects, Charlotte and Chicago are really the only ones that are straight Trump developments with no partners or licensing deals. FYI-

Thanks for the information! it still just really surprises me that Trump would build a project here with no others developers really involved. Thats HUGE that he would do that here.

[Miesian Corners]

Well, again, this stuff wouldn't even be opening until well after the current downturn has ended, unless this lasts for several years which would be pretty bad. And of the other condo projects, only 1 has been cancelled/postponed due to lack of sales-the One Charlotte tower, which really was a bit ambitious for Charlotte and had some basic problems in location. 300 South Tryon's problem was more related to the office part as I understand it. And 210 Trade had bureaucratic problems which have supposedly been resolved. The Vue is on track. The Park seems to be suffering from financial problems unrelated to actual sales.

One Charlotte was more ambitious than Trump Charlotte? I'm just saying sales are starting to flatten out in all housing--even in Charlotte. I would love to see this built, but lets look at reality here. Maybe he can do it with the name as a way to entice buyers, but first he's going to have to actually buy the land.

[nyxmike]

I agree that it's cool, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about this quite yet. As for Saks and stuff like that, not likely. Retail is hurting (especially department stores) all over and sales of luxury goods have gone flat. As for residential, I have to wonder what Trump's price point is going to be on the condo tower? With all the projects that have been stalled, how is this one going to get off the ground? Trump New Orleans is now two years behind schedule (still not a construction trailer on site), Trump Tower Tampa never got its $300 million loan (it was supposed to have been completed this summer) and is still a vacant lot, and the second Trump Tower in Las Vegas is now on hold due to the slowing economy. Still, I guess we can dream...

Like most of the country, the economy in a lot of those cities isn't very good right now. For the most part, Charlotte is fortunate enough to withstand the economic downturn and hopefully things will turn around next year. I think this project has a good chance of getting off the ground.

[elvigy]

One Charlotte was more ambitious than Trump Charlotte? I'm just saying sales are starting to flatten out in all housing--even in Charlotte. I would love to see this built, but lets look at reality here. Maybe he can do it with the name as a way to entice buyers, but first he's going to have to actually buy the land.

Um, you left out the part where I did say that the Trump project seems even more ambitious than One Charlotte, the difference between the two being that the Trump project is a much more mixed use development.

[Mobuchu]

I'd say a corporate relocation or a big corporate lease of the office space is a must for this to work. If the rumors were true about the corp. relo some of us heard about last year, then there will be no problem getting this project running, including the condo's with all those high paying jobs moving down here. I hope it happens, it would be huge to broaden our economy.

Whats the deal with the land? Trumps never actually bought it did they? And would this info have to be public, or could it have happened with screens in front to keep it quiet?

[nowensone]

This is a siteplan that they use on that new website very obviously is on the Goodyear site without the buildings at College and Stonewall. If you overlay it on that tax parcel without the disputed parcels next door, the full project proposed here fits in perfectly. It appears that they were able to make it work without that extra land. They do add a disclaimer, however, that includes that location might change.

Good analysis.

A few have questioned the site's proximity to Wachovia HQ, but I think a few decades more growth would make that irrelevant. And given that these are pencil-like towers then they should not distract as much.

I agree that it's cool, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about this quite yet. As for Saks and stuff like that, not likely. Retail is hurting (especially department stores) all over and sales of luxury goods have gone flat. As for residential, I have to wonder what Trump's price point is going to be on the condo tower? With all the projects that have been stalled, how is this one going to get off the ground? Trump New Orleans is now two years behind schedule (still not a construction trailer on site), Trump Tower Tampa never got its $300 million loan (it was supposed to have been completed this summer) and is still a vacant lot, and the second Trump Tower in Las Vegas is now on hold due to the slowing economy. Still, I guess we can dream...

For those that shop at Saks, I don't really think there could be a recession or depression capable of stunting their ability to continue shopping at Saks. Maybe enough to delay plans for the really expensive purchases, but not at the retail places they normally frequent.

------------

I'm still perplexed about the corporate relocation idea though - it would be a solid 4 years if not more before a company could begin moving into their new home, is it normal to line up deals for office space that far in advance if you aren't doing the building yourself?

[dubone]

Good analysis.

A few have questioned the site's proximity to Wachovia HQ, but I think a few decades more growth would make that irrelevant. And given that these are pencil-like towers then they should not distract as much.

I do like that the shorter building will be across from the Wachovia Corp Center, with the taller building back behind that. It will allow Wachovia to stick up a bit before being completely overshadowed by the taller building.

[shawnpaul]

I'd say a corporate relocation or a big corporate lease of the office space is a must for this to work. If the rumors were true about the corp. relo some of us heard about last year, then there will be no problem getting this project running, including the condo's with all those high paying jobs moving down here. I hope it happens, it would be huge to broaden our economy.

Whats the deal with the land? Trumps never actually bought it did they? And would this info have to be public, or could it have happened with screens in front to keep it quiet?

It would have been extremely difficult for it to be kept quiet if a transaction would have takent place but they never purchased the land. The site is currently owned by Crescent Resources and Trump no longer has an option on it. Crescent could possibly end up developing it themselves or it might end up in the hands of another developer. If or when Trump does do doing something in Charlotte, I doubt it will be at this site.

[tunedmassdamper]

It would have been extremely difficult for it to be kept quiet if a transaction would have takent place but they never purchased the land. The site is currently owned by Crescent Resources and Trump no longer has an option on it. Crescent could possibly end up developing it themselves or it might end up in the hands of another developer. If or when Trump does do doing something in Charlotte, I doubt it will be at this site.

Did you copy and paste this from Dougie's article? LOL - Based on the site plan and based on the information on this board over the past year, I would argue differently.