Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[atlrvr]

Someone opening a major office that is not already local usually doesn't pick a proposed tower.  MetLife probably wants to be moving in within 6 months or so anyway so this was never an option.

 

The tenant for this tower (if there is one lined up) is most likely a local company that wants to consolidate offices, expand, or just wants to upgrade space.  A couple of thoughts are:

 

Consolidation

PNC (banking and capital markets offices are scattered around midtown and South Park)

McguireWoods (think they are still split from the Helm Mullis merger between BofA Corp Center and 5/3)

Shaw Group (split between 121 W Trade and 139 S Tryon)

 

Expansion

Ernst & Young

LPL Financial

KL Gates, Moore Van Allen or Alston Bird (maybe)

 

Upgrade

BB&T (probably consolidation as well)

Compass Group

United Technologies (Goodrich)

 

Also, I'd say energy companies such as Seimens and Westinghouse probably fit all three.

 

That said, it's probably none of those.

[nowensone]

BB&T is definitely expanding and seems to have the NC bank "mentality", would be a prestigious move for them if not a painful reminder of Wach, still, intriguing.

PNC already stated there is too much BoA and WF presence here, which may just be political reverse psychology.

Shaw, now that is a bit prophetic, some news definitely to hint at that.

 

Merrill Lynch wholesale move?  That would be comforting as it also implies a vote of confidence of BoA remaining here.

 

Insurance, yes, saw the other thread, it's one thing that seems a natural addition here, but no news I've seen at least hinting at such an event.

 

Wish it would be a university, it is generator from many standpoints, and enduring, but < 1% chance of that.

Edited February 7, 2013 by nowensone

[Urbanity]

I still love the idea of ENN coming here - only because it's Energy, it's location across from Duke is terrific, and it would further add to our growing reputation of an energy hub with international pull. 

 

Re:  Financial Services - I would also  love to see Merrill Lynch, but with BOA reducing their footprint here for over a year I doubt it.  I agree about insurance or at least a diversification of financial services companies in Charlotte that are not strictly banks.   

 

Re university - I would put that at 0% chance.  

 

UNC Charlotte uptown campus, Wake Forest, Northwestern, Johnson & Wales, Charlotte Law, Johnson C. Smith right outside the 277, and CPCC main campus right outside the main loop.  Add Queens College plan to eventually move into the Federal Courthouse on trade for an Uptown campus and UNC Charlotte's plans for a second building and you realize there is a large concentration of higher ed institutions in a small area of the the 277 (or just outside of it)

 

One thing you have to remember about Universities - they are like sports teams and need donor bases for funding.  I think Charlotte (particularly around the 277 loop) is a bit stretched at the moment.  

Edited February 7, 2013 by Urbanity

[15895]

ENN or any energy related company that would possibly anchor this proposed tower could spur more interest in energy conpanies relocating to uptown in the future which would be awesome.

This project leaves so much room for the imagination (for those of us outside the loop, ha) that another thing I haven't thought of. The fact that it will be "transformative". It's really not just this block, but when you combine it with Romare Bearden, the Museums, the Green, the convention center, catalyst, Childress Klein, Ally building, Panthers stadium, Etc. this section of uptown (the south side) is really coming together. This could be the project that jump starts retail tenants (thinking specifically of the parking deck by Ally and catalyst) in this side of town.

As far as the way the tower would look. Something funky like the The fountain place in Dallas or Torre de espacio in Madrid, or trump Charlotte would be awesome. obviously not as tall.

Edited February 7, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[Niner National]

As someone who used to work in the solar industry and still maintains a strong interest in it, I'd love to see a company like ENN locate here, but I have to wonder about their financials. Most Chinese panel manufacturers are doing very poorly, especially after the U.S. import tariff was imposed.

 

The solar manufacturing industry is likely to endure a lot more turmoil as companies go bankrupt and the industry consolidates into a handful of manufacturing powers. SunPower is the only company at the moment that I'd be comfortable placing bets on at the moment. They sell the best panels on the market and continue to do well financially.

[HopHead]

Wow. So I've been away almost all week and just now catching up on this stuff... This looks like it would a very promising project for uptown Charlotte. I've been optimistically hoping for that last year or so that something would happen here, thinking that a big announcement would be forthcoming. Like what has already been mentioned, I don't envision something on the scale of the 70 story Trump tower returning. Something more modest. Perhaps a 40 story office tower (shorter that BofA and the Duke Energy Center) but something that will be prominent in the skyline. Add in another hotel or residential tower next to it (if that's possible, if not a multi-use one would work) with the retail component that's so desperately needed. Very exciting stuff. With everything that's been going on in uptown (apartments, BB&T Ballpark, etc) you almost get that sense that Charlotte is about to go through another boom. Maybe not 2006 crazy, but much more than we have seen the last 5 years. 

[15895]

I'm guessing the economic incentive discussion they had was either for MetLife or the Panthers and had nothing to do with this project?

 

 

 

On other speculating news, I think it was interesting that Crescent wants Little to work with;

 

Crescent said it and Little have begun a "strategic collaboration" with the
city's business, governmental and civic leadership to identify "the most
advantageous" use for the property. A city spokeswoman didn't immediately
respond to an email seeking comment.

 

 Kerry Singe, The Charlotte Observer

 

 

 

The Panthers Stadium renovations will now, we know, be used with a tax increase of prepared food and beverage. That leaves the Surplus convention center hotel funds untouched. I think this site would really be a no brainer for the city to consider partnering with the the developers to help build a convention center hotel. We already know Loews would be open for discussions.

 

Also, I think there would be an economic development case to be made with a hotel being part of  this block as opposed to just being a stand alone project. It may not be in the works, but I'd think it would be worth looking into.

[ssh214]

I am all for building more hotels but wouldn't a hotel on this site be too close to the Westin?

[urban980]

I am all for building more hotels but wouldn't a hotel on this site be too close to the Westin?

Hotels tend to cluster together; just look at the area around the Square. Just off the top of my head, there are 4 or 5 different hotels within 2 blocks of Trade and Tryon. A major hotel near the Westin actually makes sense (especially with all of the development we've seen around the Duke Energy Center area over the last 5 years).

[Missmylab4]

Well it seems the city is asking for more money than the Panthers need. It makes me wonder if the surplus would be used towards a new convention hotel. Thinking even more outlandish, I wonder if the convention center hotel would be a part of the Crescent site? That would be a good time for both Crescent and the City to work together. It would benefit both sides and maybe Crescent could get some tax credits. The city gets more hotel rooms near the convention center and the stadium. My personal opinion is this is a good opportunity for a public/private partnership.

[ah59396]

I will say it again, if that is the case and they are using "panthers money" for a hotel, it is ethically wrong and I am absolutely not in support of it.  Frankly, even if it were transparent, I would not be in support of it, as I've previously stated.

 

The only way I would be marginally in support of that hotel project, was if city assistance on the hotel portion was to make or break the entire mixed use development.  And that in itself is a complete stretch.  I can see the project as is, without city funding, still building a perfectly suitable 200-300 room hotel (or larger).

 

Independently using taxpayer money to fund a 1,000 room hotel based on the speculation of "at some point" hosting a "major event" (when we already have a 750 room hotel within a quarter mile) is completely insane.  I'd rather it go to transit, or parks or anything else.  

[nonillogical]

I completely agree, there is enough hotel demand that we don't need to provide any help to see one built IMO. However in this case we're still operating on the assumption that this is an office/hotel/retail mixed use project, but I'm still holding my breath to see if the word "transformative" that was getting tossed around means its something other than that. Maybe it will be something totally different for which public money makes sense. 

[15895]

I completely agree, there is enough hotel demand that we don't need to provide any help to see one built IMO. However in this case we're still operating on the assumption that this is an office/hotel/retail mixed use project, but I'm still holding my breath to see if the word "transformative" that was getting tossed around means its something other than that. Maybe it will be something totally different for which public money makes sense.

If the market is flooded with cheap hotel rooms, I could only assume we'd get more convention business.

I support tax money for this. And streetcar and stadium renovations and the CIP. I say investing in our city is a safe bet.

[Urbanity]

If the market is flooded with cheap hotel rooms, I could only assume we'd get more convention business.

I support tax money for this. And streetcar and stadium renovations and the CIP. I say investing in our city is a safe bet.

 

Build it and they will come?   

 

One thing that gets missed in the hotel talks is what are the hotels suppose to do when there is no major convention?  Our hotel rate last year was about 75% but that was because of the DNC - I believe normally we are in the 60-70% occupancy range,   

 

And let's say we build another major hotel (and frankly it will happen eventually) do we think that's all that's holding us back from more conventions?  If you look at the 2020 plan for Center City they show a major Convention Center expansion on the other side of the NASCAR HOF which isn't surprising as our Convention Center is in the middle range size of centers throughout the country.  

 

My point is that I don't know what is going in the Crescent site and if a hotel is a component of that - fine and great, but any argument that we need to use tax money on funding a hotel at one of the most valuable pieces of real estate in the city because we hope to get more convention business in a city that is not a tourist or convention destination boggles my mind.  

 

If we are going to use taxpayer money for attracting business to the city than use it for tax breaks for start-up companies. Use it for tax breaks for building developers to refurbish street front facing areas of their buildings into retail shops.  Use it for building a true high speed digital infrastructure throughout the 277 loop (at least the business district) but not for a hotel.

 

BTW - i agree with the latter point of funding the CIP.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Urbanity

[ah59396]

^great post. The CIP is a good investment in the city and im in favor of it. I'm just frustrated that we don't even know the details of the Crecent project yet and some are already jumping at the chance to put city money into it. If private investors think the site is worth it, let them build without city assistance!

[Niner National]

If we are going to use taxpayer money for attracting business to the city than use it for tax breaks for start-up companies. Use it for tax breaks for building developers to refurbish street front facing areas of their buildings into retail shops.  Use it for building a true high speed digital infrastructure throughout the 277 loop (at least the business district) but not for a hotel.

 

This this this.

[Spartan]

Build it and they will come?   

 

One thing that gets missed in the hotel talks is what are the hotels suppose to do when there is no major convention?  Our hotel rate last year was about 75% but that was because of the DNC - I believe normally we are in the 60-70% occupancy range,  

 

Is that rate for the city/metro or for uptown? I keep hearing that in uptown it's much higher but I have no data to back that up.

[Urbanity]

^Charlotte market.   Unfortunately the CVRVA doesn't offer easy to find statistics.   I did find a news release by the CRVA that is less than 18 months old that had the occupancy rates at 60.9% which was the highest level in three years (which should be noted is during a recession).

 

http://www.charlottesgotalot.com/charlottes-travel-industry-rebounds-ahead-national-rate

 

Edit:  According to the Charlotte Center City Partners, the "Uptown" Hotel Occupancy Rate is 58.2% according to their latest data.  When that is though is unknown since it talks about 2009 and 2010 in certain areas of the page

 

http://www.charlottecentercity.org/business/data/

 

I would suggest that without counting the DNC the occupancy rates are within a few percentage points of that.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Urbanity

[ah59396]

It's settled then.  We should build a 5,000 room hotel on the Crescent site with city money.  That's as trans formative an idea as possible. 

[New Name]

^No elevators. Just waterslides. 

[Guest]

^No elevators. Just waterslides. 

From a 1929 building, a 1953 building, and a Good Year Tire Center to an arbor of Orangegroves as far as the eye can see.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Guest

[Urbanity]

EUREKA!!!!!  Now it all makes sense!

 

[15895]

It's settled then. We should build a 5,000 room hotel on the Crescent site with city money. That's as trans formative an idea as possible.

I'm sure if the city provides assistance, it's going to be a rational, well thought out master plan based on facts.

The city wants to pursue a 1,000 room hotel. Were CLT to help fund a hotel, I think this parcel would be the ideal candidate. Also, Crescent wants to work with city leaders on this project. I'm willing to listen to the details before the whole Anti investment speeches. And I think it's possible Crescent is alluding to a 1,000 room hotel. Thus I mentioned it because it is the only thing I could think the city would want to collaborate on.

I'm only speculating on the few facts I know. I'm not the one in the loop....

Edited February 13, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[Urbanity]

Actually there is nothing rational about a 1,000 room hotel on this site.  The space is neither the right size nor does it make any sense logistically at that corner versus a commercial building with retail attraction.

 

If the city wanted a 1,000 room hotel and wanted to invest taxpayer money I could appreciate the idea of expanding the Westin with a second tower over their parking deck thereby providing the 1k room benchmark while being adjacent to the convention center.

 

The Crescent spot as anything less than a signature corp building would in my opinion be a waste.   It need not be the largest tower nor the prettiest  but a building of urban merit and not a friggin hotel which outside the Westin has no architectural record of merit in Charlotte as a building type.  

 

And that's all I got to say on that... (until I have another glass of wine!)

Edited February 13, 2013 by Urbanity

[nowensone]

A 3/4 scale replica of the Chrysler building.  Clad in green glass.  That's what vodka gets you.  Do like the idea of the Westin expanding in the direction you mentioned.

Edited February 13, 2013 by nowensone