Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[urbanlover568]

On 1/17/2017 at 2:45 PM, JBS said:

^^

At this point, I'm in the category of hoping this one DOESN'T get off the ground until the next boom...it will be a much better project if they wait until the next cycle.  

I actually agree with this. If you look at Crescent's page now, they are just rendering a patio essentially. I shudder to know what the actually building looks like. This land deserves something better than what is shown, as aforementioned about the observer parcel. Maybe forgo on this land for now and wait until conditions improve. Maybe LH will raise their building with the loss of tryon place and we salvage at least 1 of the 2 projects. 

[Guest]

I actually agree with this. If you look at Crescent's page now, they are just rendering a patio essentially. I shudder to know what the actually building looks like. This land deserves something better than what is shown, as aforementioned about the observer parcel. Maybe forgo on this land for now and wait until conditions improve. Maybe LH will raise their building with the loss of tryon place and we salvage at least 1 of the 2 projects. 

As someone who has a little bit of knowledge of the project, I disagree. It's the highest and best use for the land. It may not end up being very tall, but neither is 615 south College and people love it, and TP is going to be taller than 615. What

TP has that 615 doesn't is a very solid pedestrian presence, fantastic gathering spaces and its lined wall to wall with retail. I'm mean literally, it's the smallest lobby uptown circled with retail. It's not perfect but frankly, what is?

We love 300 South, with its still overscaled lobby, and what will be it's extremely "uptown charlotte" retail tenants. We love 615 with its cut outs, despite being around 300 feet tall, and having virtually no pedestrian presence.

I'd call off the dogs. I've gotten a good idea over the years of who likes what, and I think you personally and others who are decrying, will like the building. I gave Lincoln Harris a C, I give TP a high B, maybe higher if we get the hotel I think will accompany it.

Don't write off a tower because it's just under 400 feet, celebrate the fact that it's going to bring a new level of pedestrian activity to a section of uptown that used to be a tire shop, a sad 60s building and the office building of a grade A douche bag (despite it being an old feed and seed building)

I know I'm partly to blame for the negativity, I asked people to temper expectations. I think you guys will like it, if you get past a height decrease. Charlotte is seeing a pretty big shift in CRE. Suburban "live work play" communities are going to be huge in the next decade and office is going to be spreading into the peripheral neighborhoods, it might be a long while before we see huge office buildings again.

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[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

As someone who has a little bit of knowledge of the project, I disagree. It's the highest and best use for the land. It may not end up being very tall, but neither is 615 south College and people love it, and TP is going to be taller than 615. What

TP has that 615 doesn't is a very solid pedestrian presence, fantastic gathering spaces and its lined wall to wall with retail. I'm mean literally, it's the smallest lobby uptown circled with retail. It's not perfect but frankly, what is?

We love 300 South, with its still overscaled lobby, and what will be it's extremely "uptown charlotte" retail tenants. We love 615 with its cut outs, despite being around 300 feet tall, and having virtually no pedestrian presence.

I'd call off the dogs. I've gotten a good idea over the years of who likes what, and I think you personally and others who are decrying, will like the building. I gave Lincoln Harris a C, I give TP a high B, maybe higher if we get the hotel I think will accompany it.

Don't write off a tower because it's just under 400 feet, celebrate the fact that it's going to bring a new level of pedestrian activity to a section of uptown that used to be a tire shop, a sad 60s building and the office building of a grade A douche bag (despite it being an old feed and seed building)


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I'm critiquing not only the height but overall deterioration of the street presence architecture with each update. It's become much more value engineered. 615 was only a office tower from the get-go. I was anticipating this being more high-quality mixed use. Hope i'm wrong.  

[Guest]

I'm critiquing not only the height but overall deterioration of the street presence architecture with each update. It's become much more value engineered. 615 was only a office tower from the get-go. I was anticipating this being more high-quality mixed use. Hope i'm wrong.  

What about hotel, retail and office isn't high quality mixed use? As far as height goes, they are responding to what the market is giving them. If I can see a building from the airport, that's when I consider it tall enough to make an impact.


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[tozmervo]

[urbanlover568]

1 minute ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

What about hotel, retail and office isn't high quality mixed use? As far as height goes, they are responding to what the market is giving them. If I can see a building from the airport, that's when I consider it tall enough to make an impact.


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mixed use isn't always high quality. You can put a super 8, call center, and a apartment in a strip mall and call it mixed use. It's about the architecture and materials used.  

[Guest]

mixed use isn't always high quality. You can put a super 8, call center, and a apartment in a strip mall and call it mixed use. It's about the architecture and materials used.  

So what are you basing your value engineering comment on? If you take away the people, the bright lights and the gimmicks of the original renderings you are left with the same thing. Glass and stone, concrete and pavers, a touch of wood and greenery. Crescent very unfortunately put out renderings that were made for a completely different target market... retailers, not urban planning nerds.

I know what a high quality mixed use development is, I'm keenly aware of it, and this will be high quality, if it ever gets off the damn ground.

If you want to cry foul, cry about the Home2Suites which will be a literal S.H.I.T on the earth

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[urbanlover568]

41 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

So what are you basing your value engineering comment on? If you take away the people, the bright lights and the gimmicks of the original renderings you are left with the same thing. Glass and stone, concrete and pavers, a touch of wood and greenery. Crescent very unfortunately put out renderings that were made for a completely different target market... retailers, not urban planning nerds.

I know what a high quality mixed use development is, I'm keenly aware of it, and this will be high quality, if it ever gets off the damn ground.

If you want to cry foul, cry about the Home2Suites which will be a literal S.H.I.T on the earth

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This :

Before:

 

 

Now:

 

[Dale]

53 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

So what are you basing your value engineering comment on? If you take away the people, the bright lights and the gimmicks of the original renderings you are left with the same thing. Glass and stone, concrete and pavers, a touch of wood and greenery. Crescent very unfortunately put out renderings that were made for a completely different target market... retailers, not urban planning nerds.

I know what a high quality mixed use development is, I'm keenly aware of it, and this will be high quality, if it ever gets off the damn ground.

If you want to cry foul, cry about the Home2Suites which will be a literal S.H.I.T on the earth

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Rickey, that's the first indication of doubt I've gotten from you. Are you concerned that this may not go forward ... after they've laid waste to the tract ?

[Guest]

This :
Before:
 

 
Now:
 

As I said, renderings that serve different purposes. I don't see value engineering, I see a rendering that wasn't ready for consumption that they have tightened and replaced since they were put on the internet.


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Rickey, that's the first indication of doubt I've gotten from you. Are you concerned that this may not go forward ... after they've laid waste to the tract ?

I see a Lincoln Harris project that is moving without any community involvement or outreach vs Crescent who might have put too much time, energy and money into community involvement. They listened, and put forth a product that the community wanted then showed it to prospective tenants, who wanted something completely different, so they handed it over to another party, JLL, who said, if you want tenants you gotta do this and that. I'm perturbed that this has been redesigned 3 times and maybe going into a fourth. I'm doing everything I can do to stay optimistic.


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[urbanlover568]

4 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

As I said, renderings that serve different purposes. I don't see value engineering, I see a rendering that wasn't ready for consumption that they have tightened and replaced since they were put on the internet.


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Why would crescent release full renderings on its and the buildings website if it was still in draft? tightened is code for value engineered IMO. 

[Guest]

Why would crescent release full renderings on its and the buildings website if it was still in draft? tightened is code for value engineered IMO. 

Clearly it was a draft as it was taken down. Plus "release" is a strong word. It's something we happened upon that had no press.

Tightened is term for cropped out.

There won't be a exposed parking deck, I've seen it covered.

The initial rendering is full of architectural gimmicks. There are full renderings of the new building with all the same schlock to make it look appealing.


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[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Clearly it was a draft as it was taken down. Plus "release" is a strong word. It's something we happened upon that had no press.

Tightened is term for cropped out.

There won't be a exposed parking deck, I've seen it covered.

The initial rendering is full of architectural gimmicks. There are full renderings of the new building with all the same schlock to make it look appealing.


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Press of old renderings : http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article28372231.html

Well I hope the "full" rendering has the things the old rendering had. Really enjoyed the open bar and stage of the old rendering. 

[Guest]

Press of old renderings : http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article28372231.html
Well I hope the "full" rendering has the things the old rendering had. Really enjoyed the open bar and stage of the old rendering. 

Lots of press for original. None for new, that's my point.
It's supposed to be a community catalyst, let's hope it will be.


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[urbanlover568]

1 minute ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Lots of press for original. None for new, that's my point.
It's supposed to be a community catalyst, let's hope it will be.


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Crescent seems trigger happy with renderings lol That Lawyer and HB2 threw a wrench into the original plans im assuming. Hope it works out for them and all the hard work pays off! 

[Guest]

Crescent seems trigger happy with renderings lol That Lawyer and HB2 threw a wrench into the original plans im assuming. Hope it works out for them and all the hard work pays off! 

I think they might have found a solution for the lawyer recently.


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[KJHburg]

I think a 20 story building with good street presence would be fine here and I am NOT saying that is what it is. One big thing changed since Tryon Place was announced and that is the Lincoln Harris tower. If it is the reputed 1 million sq ft and half or so is preleased that still leaves a lot of space to absorb. However in saying that I think Crescent could have a tenant like a US Bank which now has over 600 employees in 2 buildings and as I said before there is no better way to recruit even more people than have a building with your name on it. I know real estate developers and they have to operate within the real market conditions, this is not China where you can build a 100 story building with little tenant interest. I am sure whatever Crescent does here would be good maybe not up to many of your high expectations but market driven nonetheless. We have 3 new office towers under construction uptown including the Lincoln Harris please tell me a peer city that has kind of development. (Austin could be one with a couple, Houston has 1 new tower underway, Dallas has a some of the outskirts of downtown in their uptown area but they also have a million square foot vacant tower and  I think Nashville has 2 new office towers going up downtown one preleased to Bridgestone Tire)  Atlanta has NONE underway downtown or midtown at present and just 1 in Buckhead. Lets just wait until they announced their new look and go from there.  

[edmundblackadder1999]

Good point.

Dallas and Houston really aren't even peer cities.  They're much bigger than Charlotte and have bigger business communities.

 

[deleted]

It is true that many of my negative comments came as a result of your (RDF's) expectation managing ("woof").  However, the placement of the garage remains a concern (unless they have a deal with Diehl).  I am on record saying the reduced height could actually be a positive.  I'm almost certain it will be better than the LH project.  

It is interesting to see the dramatically different opinions on projects.  I hate LH, Embassy Suites, what is being built in PM and Ascent but like Furman's latest, UNCC, Crescent Stonewall and the HOF.  There are strong voices on the opposite side of all of those projects and all have merit.

[Guest]

It is true that many of my negative comments came as a result of your (RDF's) expectation managing ("woof").  However, the placement of the garage remains a concern (unless they have a deal with Diehl).  I am on record saying the reduced height could actually be a positive.  I'm almost certain it will be better than the LH project.  
It is interesting to see the dramatically different opinions on projects.  I hate LH, Embassy Suites, what is being built in PM and Ascent but like Furman's latest, UNCC, Crescent Stonewall and the HOF.  There are strong voices on the opposite side of all of those projects and all have merit.

I admit it's true. I woofed initially until I took it in and thought about it.


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[hinsp0]

I understand that there is a purchaser for the Diehl property.  The purchaser is not Crescent.

[Guest]

I understand that there is a purchaser for the Diehl property.  The purchaser is not Crescent.

Speaking that they sold their hotel property for stonewall to a hotel developer would make sense for them to sell it to a hotel developer in the case of Tryon Place.


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[hinsp0]

21 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Speaking that they sold their hotel property for stonewall to a hotel developer would make sense for them to sell it to a hotel developer in the case of Tryon Place.


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Agreed that selling to a hotel developer would make sense.  I only know that there's a deal in place that hasn't closed yet.  I don't know precisely what the purchaser is planning.

[Guest]

Agreed that selling to a hotel developer would make sense.  I only know that there's a deal in place that hasn't closed yet.  I don't know precisely what the purchaser is planning.

My hope is they sandblast it and take it back to its original form and build on top of it. I've heard a company with ties to Starwood would be the developer, so hopefully that's remotely correct.


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[hinsp0]

7 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

My hope is they sandblast it and take it back to its original form and build on top of it. I've heard a company with ties to Starwood would be the developer, so hopefully that's remotely correct.


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That would be awesome.  Again, I don't know the precise plans.  I was told, however, that the original structure would not be demolished.  I was told that there would be renovation work done to the interior.  I don't know if that means renovation to maintain the building as office space or renovation to complete structural work for potential placement of a hotel above or both.