Ally Charlotte Center (f/k/a Tryon Place) - 26 floors - 427'

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

This seems like a very vague and unsubstantiated statement.  It is easy to say Sears "wouldn't be smart" when they are literally dying as a brand, and that H&M or Forever 21 "would be smart" when they have had more recent success than Sears; but aside from the obvious, what do you consider "economically viable" and "smart"?  I am not as sold on the idea of H&M and Forever 21 as so many other are.  Bankers aren't going to shop at these places like they might at an Apple or Microsoft store, and shopping alone is a long way from the critical mass it will need to be a destination Uptown in and of itself.  If you truly want retail to be a destination in and of itself in Uptown, then you need to start with retail that the current Uptown demographic can support.  As those business prove their viability, and as more and more residents live Uptown, then maybe you can create more destination retail.  Developers (most) are smart.  They don't use the Field of Dreams mantra of "If you build it, they will come".

Agreed on Forever21. Charlotte doesn't have the target demographics for that store readily milling about uptown. H&M could maybe be viable as their reach goes a little further. There are a ton of mills working uptown afterall. I just think they would be barely profitable, definitely not top stores in the brand like Target at Metropolitan is.

[Cadi40]

41 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

This seems like a very vague and unsubstantiated statement.  It is easy to say Sears "wouldn't be smart" when they are literally dying as a brand, and that H&M or Forever 21 "would be smart" when they have had more recent success than Sears; but aside from the obvious, what do you consider "economically viable" and "smart"?  I am not as sold on the idea of H&M and Forever 21 as so many other are.  Bankers aren't going to shop at these places like they might at an Apple or Microsoft store, and shopping alone is a long way from the critical mass it will need to be a destination Uptown in and of itself.  If you truly want retail to be a destination in and of itself in Uptown, then you need to start with retail that the current Uptown demographic can support.  As those business prove their viability, and as more and more residents live Uptown, then maybe you can create more destination retail.  Developers (most) are smart.  They don't use the Field of Dreams mantra of "If you build it, they will come".

You realize there are women workers in the city that enjoy shopping at H&M and Forever 21? As well as women and even male residents that enjoy that it, Most of the women I know like to shop at Forever 21 or H&M. I believe the current demographics can support it, Just my opinion. The reason I said it both of those shops were financially viable was due to a previous article I read about 3 months ago comparing sears to other stores and how the stores that are successful included H&M and Forever 21.  

Edited January 5, 2018 by Cadi40

[CLT>___]

I would shop at H&M, but not as much as a mini target... Point is... I want a mini target. I do not want to drive and park my truck in a deck anymore I just want to walk lol. My wife drags me to target every week for supplies and I am tired of driving over there...  

[15895]

16 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Agreed on Forever21. Charlotte doesn't have the target demographics for that store readily milling about uptown. H&M could maybe be viable as their reach goes a little further. There are a ton of mills working uptown afterall. I just think they would be barely profitable, definitely not top stores in the brand like Target at Metropolitan is.

 

Would developers maybe be willing to lease out retail space if it were only break even? Obviously they’re in it to make money, but if they just put in a giant fitness center or an oversized office lobby, etc. that’s not making them money neither.

 

edit: I wonder whatever came about from the retail “czar” CCP hired. Seems like the only thing accomplished is a kiosk in epicenter. Maybe he’s useful behind th scenes 

Edited January 5, 2018 by AirNostrumMAD

[Cadi40]

1 minute ago, JSquare said:

I would shop at H&M, but not as much as a mini target... Point is... I want a mini target. I do not want to drive and park my truck in a deck anymore I just want to walk lol. My wife drags me to target every week for supplies and I am tired of driving over there...  

I do agree on a Market style target as well that carries daily needs.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

Would developers maybe be willing to lease out retail space if it were only break even? Obviously they’re in it to make money, but if they just put in a giant fitness center or an oversized office lobby, etc. that’s not making them money neither.

 

edit: I wonder whatever came about from the retail “czar” CCP hired. Seems like the only thing accomplished is a kiosk in epicenter. Maybe he’s useful behind th scenes 

I'd say retail isn't all that important to them, but  Asana is taking over the leasing of Stonewall and Tryon Place, so thats their livelyhood so no they definitely won't be discounting any spaces. 

Retail Czar: "Maybe he's useful behind the scenese"

You crazy dude? BofA Plaza, Independence Center, First Citizens, 400 South Tryon Parking Deck, The deck across from 300 South Tryon have all been redone during his tenure. CCCP has been monumental in this process.

[KJHburg]

Stonewall closed today for utility work and I noticed some signs in the window of 600 S College.   I am opposed to this building coming down why not save it turn it into a great loft style restaurant and bar for the hotel.  I am opposed to this building being bulldozed just because someone wants to put up a luxury hotel.  This building should be saved Crescent! We have too few of buildings like this within the uptown loop.  ( I am sure the sign was put up by the Diehl law folks)

[Windsurfer]

Crescent, as mentioned before, has zero sense of community.  I used to sort of know the CEO, and, much to my disappointment is a native Charlottean.

[CLT>___]

11 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Stonewall closed today for utility work and I noticed some signs in the window of 600 S College.   I am opposed to this building coming down why not save it turn it into a great loft style restaurant and bar for the hotel.  I am opposed to this building being bulldozed just because someone wants to put up a luxury hotel.  This building should be saved Crescent! We have too few of buildings like this within the uptown loop.  ( I am sure the sign was put up by the Diehl law folks)

I am not sure I understand. Is there some history behind this building other than it being old? It looks terrible and seems to have no architectural significant.

I am not trying to be rude just would like to know why some people are so opposed to this building coming down. 

[KJHburg]

^^ Yes it was built in 1902 which I know is not  that old by most world standards but it was representative of the South College street business district.  Those are earthquake bolts on  the facade since it was built shortly after the great quake of Charleston SC  

http://landmarkscommission.org/2016/12/19/query-spivey-mcgee-building/   I just think it provides scale to the street level and with some work could be incorporated into the hotel and give it some local character.   

Edited January 5, 2018 by KJHburg

[Windsurfer]

1 minute ago, KJHburg said:

^^ Yes it was built in 1902 which I know is that old by most world standards but it was representative of the South College street business district.  Those are earthquake bolts on  the facade since it was built shortly after the great quake of Charleston SC  

http://landmarkscommission.org/2016/12/19/query-spivey-mcgee-building/   I just think it provides scale to the street level and with some work could be incorporated into the hotel and give it some local character.   

College Street used to be home to many wholesalers. My company as well back in the 20's.  Ours was located where the Hearst Tower is now on N. College, and yes, good eye on the earthquake bolts.

[KJHburg]

^^^ Though it looks like it is goner and will be replaced with a plaque.   I just think it could have been saved and incorporated in the hotel which this is done all over the country. 

http://landmarkscommission.org/2017/08/16/hlc-agenda-september-11-2017/

[CLT>___]

I agree 1902 is not that old but everything in Europe was not that old at one point so you have to give stuff a chance to be old. I agree with saving building that are old and architecturally significant I just do not feel like this building really meets that criteria. It just seems to be nothing special this building type was probably a dime a dozen in the 1900s

Now if we were talking about a building like 312 west Trade I would be on your side resisting its demolition. 

[deleted]

5 hours ago, JSquare said:

It looks terrible and seems to have no architectural significant.

Respectfully, I think it would look great if the paint was removed/brick restored and the recent alterations/additions were removed (see the Google building adjacent to 1st Ward Park).  This is the kind of building that would make a great restaurant, IMO.

[urbanlover568]

12 hours ago, JSquare said:

Not to be argumentative but we are not talking about stores like radio shack and toysRus. I think we can all agree that stores like that are a no go. We are discussing useful retail on a smaller scale. I think the savior for a lot of retail like Target could be strategically  placing smaller stores that carry a changing inventory of goods based on the local markets needs. 

I am a big believe in technology and moving forward but I do not believe that retail is dead. I think it is moving through a transition period that will weed out the bloated companies and hopefully stores will learn to adapt to the new environment. 

Retail stores as a whole is failing . Online retail is where everything is going. I worked for a well known fortune 500 retail company that started scaling back in 2010. They are opening very few stores and focusing more on increasing online market share. Developers are just NOT going to take a risk now of having retail space unoccupied. They would probably designate it for resturant use or office. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by mpretori

[15895]

Mark me down as a neanderthal that’s going to continue to buy milk, Dawn dish soap, Mr. Clean, Cheerios and glade plug ins physically in person. 

 

[urbanlover568]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Mark me down as a neanderthal that’s going to continue to buy milk, Dawn dish soap, Mr. Clean, Cheerios and glade plug ins physically in person. 

 

have fun wasting gas and time driving. Amazon 2 hour delivery here  

[Cadi40]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Mark me down as a neanderthal that’s going to continue to buy milk, Dawn dish soap, Mr. Clean, Cheerios and glade plug ins physically in person. 

 

Same here, Nothing is going to beat grocery shopping.

[urbanlover568]

3 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

Same here, Nothing is going to beat grocery shopping.

Since when did this turn into a grocery store discussion? 

[Cadi40]

19 hours ago, mpretori said:

Retail stores as a whole is failing . Online retail is where everything is going. I worked for a well known fortune 500 retail company that started scaling back in 2010. They are opening very few stores and focusing more on increasing online market share. Developers are just NOT going to take a risk now of having retail space unoccupied. They would probably designate it for resturant use or office. 

When you said this... When I said nothing can beat grocery shopping I didn’t necessarily mean grocery store. Now let’s get back to topic! I actually like Tryon place and its one of the best projects going in currently in my opinion.

[urbanlover568]

15 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

When you said this... When I said nothing can beat grocery shopping I didn’t necessarily mean grocery store. Now let’s get back to topic! I actually like Tryon place and its one of the best projects going in currently in my opinion.

Wow.  Grocery stores are clearly not what I was referencing. But carry on... 

[15895]

Just now, mpretori said:

Wow.  Grocery stores are clearly not what I was referencing. But carry on... 

What I mean was some items, grocery being one of them, soft goods.... isn’t going to go the way of radio shack, Books-a-Million, etc 

Retail is changing, not falling off the face of the planet. And there is room for Apple Store, soft good  retailers, pet stores, and some clothing.

 

[urbanlover568]

1 minute ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

What I mean was some items, grocery being one of them, soft goods.... isn’t going to go the way of radio shack, Books-a-Million, etc 

Retail is changing, not falling off the face of the planet. And there is room for Apple Store, soft good  retailers, pet stores, and some clothing.

 

Yes it's changing and moving to a online market. Grocery stores are still figuring out how they will adapt to online market. I rarely go to pet stores, clothing retailers, and cellphone stores now. These stores are the ones that are  closing. The job report in december didn't meet expectations because retail store closings. It's just reality that this will continue to happen unless habbits change away from online sales, but thats's unlikely. 

[KJHburg]

^^^ FYI Books a Million is still open at Concord Mills and seems to be doing well.

In terms of Tryon Place and Legacy there is retail that can work and not everything is bought online nor will it ever be.  Look at Apple that is one of the most successful stores on planet earth in terms of sales per square foot and they are still opening stores.  I think there are apparel retailers that can do fine uptown with so large working population. And I will mention it since no one else will, the TJ Maxx corporation and its stores the namesake, Marshalls, Homegoods are THRIVING with little to no online presence.  One uptown somewhere esp. the first 2 would do incredible.  So would one of our Charlotte area based shoe chains like Shoe Show or Rack Room.   Not to mention a Sephora, other cosmetics store even a Victoria Secret would do good uptown. 

I personally like bricks and clicks which if an online order goes awry it is easy to return to a physical store.   

Edited January 6, 2018 by KJHburg

[CLT>___]

21 hours ago, mpretori said:

Developers are just NOT going to take a risk now of having retail space unoccupied. They would probably designate it for resturant use or office. 

This is not correct. Developers do not view retail as a risk, but as an asset. That is why every new project has some sort of retail component. Business locations that have retail/resturants in them or near by can fetch a higher rent than office spaces with no retail amenities. Developers are also not the ones taking the risks anymore. It is becoming the new norm to sell off the retail space to a company like Asana who are specialists in managing and renting out the retail space.

Saying that retail is dead and online shopping is the only future is a defeatist mind set. I believe we will always have retail locations for people to physically look at items. Retail just needs to adapt and become more streamlined.

As KJHburg said above stores like TJ Maxx have it figured out... Keep the inventory changing so people come back searching for bargains.