How can downtown GR tap into exploding GVSU enrollment

[bneidlinger]

Going back to when I went to Western, when you got to your 4th year+ at WMU, living in the Knollwood area was for dorks, living on campus was for married couples, living in the ghetto was for grunges, and living out at Drake and beyond was "cool". In fact, it seemed like the further you were from campus, the cooler it was. I even knew a couple of people who lived way out in apartments in Portage in a really upscale apartment complex.

[GRDadof3]

I'm not sure how old you are but things haven't changed at all so you must not be too far removed from college... By the way, I live on Gull road on the East side so what the heck does that make me? Finally, sorry about bringing up Kzoo stuff on the GR forum but it seems the Kazoo forum is on life support right now.

[TheCityGuy]

see, i dont think 4th year students live in allendale, id look at standale, wyoming, jenison, grandville, and walker for them

[AlexPKeaton]

Why would 4th and 5th year students move downtown if their classes are in Allendale? If you want to live in a convenient spot for class for a relatively cheap price, downtown simply isn't it. Maybe with a light rail it would help, but even then Standale would be a better choice as you'd still have rail access and be closer. To really draw students downtown there needs to be even more classes and maybe another program or two located there. I could see it happening in the next few years as GVSU owns plenty of land downtown. They could probably double the size of the campus with the land they own that is currently used for surface parking.

Build a rail and charge more for parking passes. Maybe then they could eliminate a parking lot or two on the Allendale campus.

[Allison Slater]

I'd say another factor is that there are no apartment BUILDINGS with affordable prices which allow college students. The only way to find rental options downtown that allow college students is homeowners renting out rooms, or maybe buildings with a couple or so units above. It's much easier to just open the phonebook and make a call to <random suburban apartment complex> which has cheap rooms and no rules against full-time college students.

In fact, this is the very reason why I don't even live downtown right now.

[gvsusean]

I'd say another factor is that there are no apartment BUILDINGS with affordable prices which allow college students. The only way to find rental options downtown that allow college students is homeowners renting out rooms, or maybe buildings with a couple or so units above. It's much easier to just open the phonebook and make a call to <random suburban apartment complex> which has cheap rooms and no rules against full-time college students.

In fact, this is the very reason why I don't even live downtown right now.

[The one & only]

I know it is a long shot, but a football field downtown would do very well. Not only for GVSU but for the new sports commission. you could play soccer, laccross, on it also. Build it so you can hold out-door concerts there in the summer time also. Get ride of houseman field and put one downtown. Like i said it is a long shot but i think it could work.

[bneidlinger]

I know it is a long shot, but a football field downtown would do very well. Not only for GVSU but for the new sports commission. you could play soccer, laccross, on it also. Build it so you can hold out-door concerts there in the summer time also. Get ride of houseman field and put one downtown. Like i said it is a long shot but i think it could work.

[Allison Slater]

That would bring students downtown, but not to live, only to watch the games. I can't think of anybody who moves to a specific area because of a sports field.

[GRDadof3]

I think if a Mixed Use style layout was created on the DASH West lots or South of GVSU downtown, with coffee shops, a pub, bookstore, etc. and had apartments catering to GVSU students, many upperclassmen would choose to live there vs. out in Standale, Jenison or Ramblewood Apartments. (Civitas "contemporary apartments" idea from earlier on a much larger scale) And even moreso if there were a fast, reliable connection to Allendale that could get you there quicker than driving your car.

The only reason I brought it up is that the housing market in the area is very soft right now, whereas the market demand for student housing is very strong, especially if there is demand for 1900 units in Allendale. We'd all like to see more residential downtown to bring more demand for retail and other amenities. Where do we draw that demand for housing from? And would GVSU students fit the bill, and what would be the reasons they would not choose downtown. Being so far from Allendale might be one of those issues.

[gvsusean]

I think if a Mixed Use style layout was created on the DASH West lots or South of GVSU downtown, with coffee shops, a pub, bookstore, etc. and had apartments catering to GVSU students, many upperclassmen would choose to live there vs. out in Standale, Jenison or Ramblewood Apartments. (Civitas "contemporary apartments" idea from earlier on a much larger scale) And even moreso if there were a fast, reliable connection to Allendale that could get you there quicker than driving your car.

The only reason I brought it up is that the housing market in the area is very soft right now, whereas the market demand for student housing is very strong, especially if there is demand for 1900 units in Allendale. We'd all like to see more residential downtown to bring more demand for retail and other amenities. Where do we draw that demand for housing from? And would GVSU students fit the bill, and what would be the reasons they would not choose downtown. Being so far from Allendale might be one of those issues.

[bneidlinger]

its all about price... show them an apartment for 400 person with utlities and it will be full in a month,..... show em some building far from school for 1150 a month and noone gives a dam. i will move into student apartments NOW if they were DT for 400 a month with utilities

[PBJ]

I've been watching this thread and I'll just throw out there that there is probably more "college students" living d/t or near d/t than I think we're giving credit to. I have many friends who lived on the west side (still east of the zoo), heritage/cherry hill, American Seating. Working d/t in the night life bizz, I work with a LOT of people who are still in college (ages 19-25), many of them live within 1-5 miles of Fulton and Division. They're not concentrated downtown right in the core because as has already been stated it's expensive.

I don't think we'll ever see a cluster of students ever living right in the core say on Monroe Center, it's just not financially feasible to provide housing to people who make less than $1,000/mo. Just my $.02

[svs650k3]

exactly!! where are the students supposed to live DT... at the new "college" apartments where rent is 1150 a person for a 2 bedroom.... give some options and students may live DT. there is nowhere to live so there are no students

[GR8scott]

yeah as far as I know american seating is almost all students, I know people that live in houses over by the business college offf Division and also over off Michigan and I rarely even hang out with people from GV, there does not seem to be a concontrated neighborhood but there seems to be students mixed in every direction DT

[TheCityGuy]

What about heritage hill, american seating etc.? I lived downtown for 3 years while I was at GVSU. I couldn't wait to get out of Allendale so I did as soon as I could. If they want to spend some time looking anyone can find affordable housing downtown. One year I lived in a almost brand new house on the west side a couple blocks from school that I split with a friend for $675. Maybe the landlords aren't doing enough marketing to students in Allendale to bring them downtown.

[Jocundry]

see, i dont think 4th year students live in allendale, id look at standale, wyoming, jenison, grandville, and walker for them

[mifunboy]

I actually ponder that it may be a bad idea to have significant undergraduate housing downtown. Undergrads do not have the same sense of property responsibility and care as others. I was the same way when I was younger and know others were less mature. Also they would actually be a reason for younger families and other wealthy segments not to live downtown.

Development the downtown for

1)Business

2)Non Profts

3) Research

4) Younger Families

5) Older couples w $

6) Entermaintment for those segments

7) Grad Studets

Trust me on this one

[bneidlinger]

I actually ponder that it may be a bad idea to have significant undergraduate housing downtown. Undergrads do not have the same sense of property responsibility and care as others. I was the same way when I was younger and know others were less mature. Also they would actually be a reason for younger families and other wealthy segments not to live downtown.

Development the downtown for

1)Business

2)Non Profts

3) Research

4) Younger Families

5) Older couples w $

6) Entermaintment for those segments

7) Grad Studets

Trust me on this one

[civitas]

I'm working on a couple of projects that might serve DT students. Although I agree that there is room downtown for everyone, I would prefer developing housing for upper-class students who care about their education, appreciate downtown and are less inclined to stack empty Bud cans in the windows.

Since I graduated from college 36 years ago, I'd appreciate some input on what today's college renter wants in a floor plan. I think I can safely assume that reasonable rent is a given. To keep the rent reasonable the layout must be very efficient (no unnecessary square feet). 2-bedroom units are more efficient than 1-bedroom. Are roommates still the norm? 4-bedroom units are even more efficient. Can you have too many roommates?

It seems that a 2-bedroom unit would ideally have 2 bathrooms.

Each bedroom/study room should have big operable windows and room for a computer desk.

I wonder if the traditional "dining" area could be replaced by an island/bar.

I assume a stackable washer/dryer in the unit is required.

I'd like to see 9 or 10 foot ceilings in the living room and bedrooms with tall windows. Big glass in the bedrooms seems important (although I'm noticing more loft projects with windowless bedrooms).

I assume that big closets are also desired.

Here's a conceptual SketchUp floor plan:

High ceilings and big windows in living room. Are balconies desired?

Dining island between kitchen and living room (could be replaced with a table and chairs).

Bedrooms big enough for computer desk and big windows:

[ericnmu]

civitas, that floor plan looks great.

As a student fitting your description, here is what I look for in an apartment.

- Sound is a big issue, I don't want to hear the neighbors.

- Bedrooms big enough for a desk and a bed, without forcing the bed into a corner.

- Counter space is a big one. I think your idea of a center island in place of the dining room table is a good concept. I've never sat down in my apartment for a formal family dinner, and the island doubles over as a workspace for the kitchen.

- Keep the entertainment/living room as doorless as possible. One of my previous apartments have 7 doors in the living room, which pretty much killed any areas for a couch or entertainment center.

[GRDadof3]

I think the balconies would have to be looked at unit-by-unit, depending on where the building is, what it faces, etc.. Depending on how the building is designed, sometimes balconies on every unit give the exterior a bland look. The other downside of a balcony is that you have to provide a traffic area to get to the balcony, usually losing that wall for any kind of furniture. The only time people use balconies in college is to smoke outside at parties, or grill (from what I remember). They were usually too small to do much else. However, they are a good selling point for many people.

I don't know that you have to have the tubs in the bathrooms like you have shown. You may be able to just do the 36x36 standup shower units, if that saves you any space. I never took a "bath" in college (heck, I haven't taken a bath in 25 years). It saves from having to buy a shower curtain or clean it all the time, and the fiberglass also makes it easier to clean than ceramic tiles or something similar on the walls.

I think having a mix of demographics downtown is the way to go. I wouldn't want to see downtown be a majority of any particular group: empty nesters, college students, young professionals. A mixture also provides demand for a mixture of service and retail amenities downtown. I don't see families being drawn to downtown en masse anytime soon.

[GR_Urbanist]

I have zero problem with bringing more undergrads into the DT area. If we can have the homeless and rich old people, what could be wrong with undergrads?

I mean, if there old enough to pay taxes and serve in the army, why shouldn't they be able to enjoy living in the city?

One plus is that they like to stay up late and go out which means fewer times during the night where DT is deserted. Who knows, more eyes on the street may have prevented that assault by the old public museum a few days ago.

[suydam]

I have zero problem with bringing more undergrads into the DT area. If we can have the homeless and rich old people, what could be wrong with undergrads?

I mean, if there old enough to pay taxes and serve in the army, why shouldn't they be able to enjoy living in the city?

One plus is that they like to stay up late and go out which means fewer times during the night where DT is deserted. Who knows, more eyes on the street may have prevented that assault by the old public museum a few days ago.

[MJLO]

You know, a couple years ago I was told by a GVSU official, that GVSU was going to sit still on its city expansion after they finished the current projects, because they don't want to step on the toes of GRCC. They said that they had a good partnership with CC and didn't want to get overly competitive. I wonder if that's the case or what's really going on. I would be overjoyed if GVSU had a 10k student body fulltime downtown. I think it would be even better if they had the whole 22k student body there. It would really change the flavor big time. Grand Rapids still benefits from the Allendale campus, those students still flood downtown at night, they just have a longer commute. I have to think though, I know that Allendale has been fighting some of its more college type ammenities. But that school is getting bigger and bigger, and the more students that live there, I have to imagine that the market for that college life will grow. Is there anything to suggest, that even on a smaller scale, Allendale will start getting more trendy, as it gets more noticed? I know it's a sleepy Ottawa county conservative town, but having a major university has got to have some kind of impact at some point right?