Dillard Creek Commons | Creekside Village

[breed]

I don't like either project. I think cities are most efficient (in various ways) if commercial and entertainment activity is concentrated downtown, along with some residential components. If that can't be done, then suburban commercial development should consist of high-density, pedestrian-friendly commercial development. Worst of all is low-density, non-pedestrian-friendly suburban development. Most of Greenville's commercial areas are in that last, worst category.

Greenville's track record on high-density, pedestrian-friendly suburban development is very bad.

Regardless of geography, most new development in the US (since World War II) is automobile-centered. It's not fair to call out Greenville as being exceptional in that regard, or just cities in The South, for that matter.

[johnnyg]

Sprawl is like spam or junk email, nothing good can come from it. Now why can't they propose something like this for the intersection of Highway 153 and I-85 near where I live?

I've been lurking...but I'm back!!

To put this in perspective:

In 2000 the Futurist magazine (i believe that it what it is called) had an article by a well known economist about the I-85 Corridor.

He presented an idea, that by 2025 the I-85 corridor from Greensboro, NC to Atlanta, Ga would be solid urbanism.

Meaning that all the undeveloped & unincorporated land bordering I-85 along this corridor would fill-in, and the lines between cities would diminish (think Baltimore,MD to DC)

This can certainly be considered sprawl, but it can also be considered a mecca for growth of the new urbanism.

There will be cultural, residential, office, retail, educational, etc...down this entire corridor instead of concentrated in the large cities only.

Not to say large cities shouldn't focus on in-fill & redevelopment, but the premise is; this will all happen in addition to the redevelopment of the inner cities along the way.

In the Greenville News on Oct.12 2006 there was a story titled: Wachovia chief bullish on I-85 corridor's growth

In this article Ken Thompson (Wachovia's CEO) made the following comments;

"Earlier, Thompson met with his South Carolina management team and he said they

discussed the I-85 corridor's strategic importance to the Charlotte-based bank.

"It's one of the best markets in the world, quite frankly," the 55-year-old native of

Rocky Mount, N.C., said. "I can't think of a market in the country I would rather

dominate than that."

We have to face the fact that the same things we love about this area, is the same things everyoneelse loves about this area;

Weather, favorable labor market, Beach, Mountains, etc..

We are in the best market in the entire country (the world may be a stretch), and I don;t expect it to change until we become the "old market down south", just like the Northeast dominated in the 19th & 20th centuries, this "new"market will dominate for the next century.

Along with that comes all the rest of it.........

[goodbye]

The more I read and hear of this development, the more I dislike it. There is absolutely no talk of residential to be included in the plan - only that this area is expected to grow rapidly. That rapid growth will most likely happen in the form of more random sprawl, unless another developer buys large amounts of land and develops another "Griffin Park," "Acadia," "O'Neal Village," "Verdae," or, "Ottaray." I had hoped the Upstate was learning from past growth patterns which have caused more problems than originally expected. I am learning as a result that we cannot hope to achieve a sustainable quality of life by continuing these development practices. If this plan incorporated high-density residential and some form of transit option other than automobile, it would have a better chance of long-term success. Better yet (by far, in my opinion), this project should be developed much closer to either Spartanburg or Greenville. Being built next to the airport really isn't going to help slow the sprawl.

[Spartan]

That may indeed be the case. I think that a complete buildout by 2025 is alittle ambitious, but probably not far off. Certainly by then, much more of the land will be urbanized.

What we really need in this state is a coordinated "I-85 Corridor Plan" in all counties that I-85 passes though that can be used to enhance the existing conditions and guide the growth that WILL happen on 85 into a better form. Sprawl is inevitable, but there is no reason you can't control it and make it what you want. In this case Spartanburg County needs to have stronger regulations to guide this process. This area is probably going to endup in Greer, so I hope that they have rules that promote something other than suburban style development. I am still optimistic that this can end up as a quality development and not generic sprawl.

[btoy]

I've been lurking...but I'm back!!

To put this in perspective:

In 2000 the Futurist magazine (i believe that it what it is called) had an article by a well known economist about the I-85 Corridor.

He presented an idea, that by 2025 the I-85 corridor from Greensboro, NC to Atlanta, Ga would be solid urbanism.

Meaning that all the undeveloped & unincorporated land bordering I-85 along this corridor would fill-in, and the lines between cities would diminish (think Baltimore,MD to DC)

This can certainly be considered sprawl, but it can also be considered a mecca for growth of the new urbanism.

There will be cultural, residential, office, retail, educational, etc...down this entire corridor instead of concentrated in the large cities only.

Not to say large cities shouldn't focus on in-fill & redevelopment, but the premise is; this will all happen in addition to the redevelopment of the inner cities along the way.

In the Greenville News on Oct.12 2006 there was a story titled: Wachovia chief bullish on I-85 corridor's growth

In this article Ken Thompson (Wachovia's CEO) made the following comments;

"Earlier, Thompson met with his South Carolina management team and he said they

discussed the I-85 corridor's strategic importance to the Charlotte-based bank.

"It's one of the best markets in the world, quite frankly," the 55-year-old native of

Rocky Mount, N.C., said. "I can't think of a market in the country I would rather

dominate than that."

We have to face the fact that the same things we love about this area, is the same things everyoneelse loves about this area;

Weather, favorable labor market, Beach, Mountains, etc..

We are in the best market in the entire country (the world may be a stretch), and I don;t expect it to change until we become the "old market down south", just like the Northeast dominated in the 19th & 20th centuries, this "new"market will dominate for the next century.

Along with that comes all the rest of it.........

Great Post. Retail Traffic Magazine in October ran an article called Southern Sprawl. I originally posted this article in the Exurbia Thread this what they call "Megapolitans"

"I-85 is not just another rural highway. Researchers at Virginia Tech's Metropolitan Institute recently identified this corridor as “Piedmont,” one of 10 “megapolitans” around the country

[distortedlogic]

Out of curiosity g-man, why do you respond to your own posts? I ask because I use a news feeder, rather than directly going to the site sometimes. So every a topic I'm interested in gets a brand new response, it shows up.

Just wondering why it wouldn't be more efficient for you to just edit a post rather than trail one post after another.

I think he may be trying to get his post count up. Huh, Gman?

[distortedlogic]

Would this development be located in Greenville or Spartanburg County? Be sure to look on the last page for a link to an article about how this could bring 2,000 jobs to the area.

It may be in Sptbg cty, but this would mainly be a Greenville/Greer development. This is only a mile or so from the Pelham exit, which is all Greenville. This illustrates how the Greenville growth is spilling over into other counties. This would be like a large development being proposed just over the NE anderson county line, and arguing that it is an Anderson devlopment. Clearly, that would be Greenville growth, taking advantage of the Powdersville area.

IMO

[g-man430]

Great Post. Retail Traffic Magazine in October ran an article called Southern Sprawl. I originally posted this article in the Exurbia Thread this what they call "Megapolitans"

"I-85 is not just another rural highway. Researchers at Virginia Tech's Metropolitan Institute recently identified this corridor as “Piedmont,” one of 10 “megapolitans” around the country

[Spartan]

The difference is that the connection between Greenville and Spartanburg is much stronger than that of Greenville and Anderson. You'd be foolish to think that something of this scale built in Greer is done solely because of Greenville's presence. You can call it a "Greenville" project if you want, however, the connection economically with Spartanburg is a tremendous asset for a project like this. There is a reason that Greer is the largest suburb of Greenville, and that BMW and GSP are located where they are. Don't be so quick to discount Spartanburg's presence and influence on Greer and the location of this project site. Greer's #1 selling point is its location between two significant cities, not just Greenville.

Also, this 175 acre project could not have been located closer to either city because coming up with 175 acres closer to a downtown is extremely difficult if not impossible.

[goodbye]

The difference is that the connection between Greenville and Spartanburg is much stronger than that of Greenville and Anderson. You'd be foolish to think that something of this scale built in Greer is done solely because of Greenville's presence. You can call it a "Greenville" project if you want, however, the connection with Spartanburg is a tremendous asset for a project like this. There is a reason that Greer is the largest suburb of Greenville, and that BMW and GSP are located where they are. Don't be so quick to discount Spartanburg's presence and influence on Greer and the location of this project site. Greer's #1 selling point is its location between two significant cities, not just Greenville.

Also, this 175 acre project could not have been located closer to either city because coming up with 175 acres closer to a downtown is extremely difficult if not impossible.

Wow. Very defensive, yet I fail to see a reason. The points were definitely true, since as of right now, Greer is clearly growing more rapidly as Greenville has bumped up to its borders. Actually, you could find that amount of land closer to either easily, if you're willing to pay the price. I just hope that, if I-85 does indeed develop into everything these researchers predicted, we will have a stable transit system either built, or underway. Otherwise, we can all kiss our high quality of life goodbye.

[g-man430]

^^^I agree with you Skyliner, except for the fact that we can't have a stable transit system without this thing called money, which we don't have. I think cities in third world countries have a better transit system than we do.

Also, I had never seen a Bass Pro Shops commercial on tv here before until a month ago. Since then, i've seen at least seven. Could this be a sign of things to come?

[Spartan]

Wow. Very defensive, yet I fail to see a reason. The points were definitely true, since as of right now, Greer is clearly growing more rapidly as Greenville has bumped up to its borders. Actually, you could find that amount of land closer to either easily, if you're willing to pay the price. I just hope that, if I-85 does indeed develop into everything these researchers predicted, we will have a stable transit system either built, or underway. Otherwise, we can all kiss our high quality of life goodbye.

Not defensive at all. I simply resent the fact that people think Spartanburg has no influence on the area between Greenville and Spartanburg when it clearly does. Its unquestionably my hometown pride showing, but my points are still valid, as you said.

[g-man430]

Not defensive at all. I simply resent the fact that people think Spartanburg has no influence on the area between Greenville and Spartanburg when it clearly does. Its unquestionably my hometown pride showing, but my points are still valid, as you said.

I'm not saying Spartanburg doesn't have influence on this area, but obviously the Greenville area has more due to the difference in population numbers between each county.

[distortedlogic]

Not defensive at all. I simply resent the fact that people think Spartanburg has no influence on the area between Greenville and Spartanburg when it clearly does. Its unquestionably my hometown pride showing, but my points are still valid, as you said.

And Spartan, I was commenting on the location/county question. We often argue that political boundaries often mean very little when we are talking about numbers and development. I wholeheartedly agree that the combination of Gville and Sptbg make the upstate much more attractive (and Anderson makes it even more so), and that Greer owes much of it's success to both. However, this particular project (which no doubt is made more doable by Sptbg's presence) is in response much more so to Greenville's (and even Greer's) population base and development than Sptbgs. Even though Sptbg's county line happens to encompass this area, it is much closer to Gville's core and pop base than Sptbgs, and will effectively draw from the Greenville development near and around Pelham, Blue Ridge, Woodruff Rd, etc. If this developemnt had been proposed on the other side of Greer ( say near 85/26 interchange), then I would likewise indicate that Sptbg had much more "claim" to the devlopment than Gville.

[G'ville-gal]

This is the development I mentioned several months ago in a post here. Living within a few miles of here, most in my area are not happy about this project. Most are not happy about the Westmoreland Bypass either.

The residents in this area are the last to know about anything and most of us feel that Spartanburg Regional is "taking over ".

This new development will be the same.

[johnnyg]

I'm not saying Spartanburg doesn't have influence on this area, but obviously the Greenville area has more due to the difference in population numbers between each county.

I for one picked Spartanburg county to locate our new upstate division due to it's proximity to Greenville, Asheville & Columbia, through the I-85 & I-26 corridors.

I think that while Greenville may have a head start, as more & more business leaders look to locate here, they will end up at one or the other or in-between, depending on where their customer base is.

[g-man430]

This is the development I mentioned several months ago in a post here. Living within a few miles of here, most in my area are not happy about this project. Most are not happy about the Westmoreland Bypass either.

The residents in this area are the last to know about anything and most of us feel that Spartanburg Regional is "taking over ".

This new development will be the same.

Why aren't you happy? It might make your property values go up. You'll also have shopping and retail nearby. No matter how much you want this area to stay rural, it is not going to continue to do be. This is one of the fastest growing areas of the state, so get with it or move. I for one am excited about this project and i'm not sure why you and Skyliner aren't.

[Spartan]

The residents in this area are the last to know about anything and most of us feel that Spartanburg Regional is "taking over ".

This new development will be the same.

I find that statement surprising. It seem like people would want a medical facility close to where they live.

[G'ville-gal]

The post I am referring to is the Greer to develop a Cherrydale like shopping center. It was moved from the Spartanburg forum to Greenville. The area is in Spartanburg and will draw alot of people from the Duncan-Lyman area as it will be closer to them than Spartanburg.

It is in Spartanburg County. I have not read all the posts yet and do not know if this has been mentioned but I think this is the proposed big development that the Mayer Danner feared losing if the Reidville Sewer annexation had not come through.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=29776

[G'ville-gal]

The above link does not work.

Some people who ended up selling their land to these developers did not want to. They eventually did, but it left a very sour taste in their mouth due to the "sales tactics" used.

The bad sales tactics have started with this new development. I mentioned in another old post about an Abner Creek resident that did not want to sell his land but was told he would have to look out his window at a parking lot if he did not sell to them.

I ,and other neighbors have called Spartanburg Regional Hosp. asking nicely what the plans are with The Village at Pelham and get vague responses. Yet the next day we learn through the media what is to happen. This, too, has been a thorn in the side of residents that travel Westmoreland everyday.

I do not mind having a medical facility nearby but the Westmoreland bypass is a wreck waiting to happen. The layout is not conducive to good traffic flow. At the new intersection of Westmoreland and 14, there will be almost a "hairpin" turn to get onto 14. Also, the people who live in Spring Hill Subdivision are about to have the new road in their backyards. I talked with a resident whose house will back up to it and she had no clue.

Spartanburg Regional has not been a "good Neighbor" with this development. There is a lack of comminication with Spartanburg Regional and its neighbors. They do not care that we could be future patients.

I have to live with this everyday. The consensus of the neighbors is that the developers are showing through their actions is to H--l with you, we are going to do as we please.

As far as moving, I am not against development done correctly with a well thought out plan. The Village at Pelham has changed its mind so many times, I do not think they even know what they are doing.

I am thrilled with the Bloom market and would love to have a Walgreens on 14 and have e-mailed the corp about it. It is the politics I have a problem with.

[gs3]

And Spartan, I was commenting on the location/county question. We often argue that political boundaries often mean very little when we are talking about numbers and development. I wholeheartedly agree that the combination of Gville and Sptbg make the upstate much more attractive (and Anderson makes it even more so), and that Greer owes much of it's success to both. However, this particular project (which no doubt is made more doable by Sptbg's presence) is in response much more so to Greenville's (and even Greer's) population base and development than Sptbgs. Even though Sptbg's county line happens to encompass this area, it is much closer to Gville's core and pop base than Sptbgs, and will effectively draw from the Greenville development near and around Pelham, Blue Ridge, Woodruff Rd, etc. If this developemnt had been proposed on the other side of Greer ( say near 85/26 interchange), then I would likewise indicate that Sptbg had much more "claim" to the devlopment than Gville.

100% agree.

[g-man430]

Saw another Bass Pro Shops commercial on television a little while ago. It was on the Weather Channel.

[Cap'n Prowler]

Saw another Bass Pro Shops commercial on television a little while ago. It was on the Weather Channel.

I believe their commercials get national air time. Doesn't mean a thing.

[Spartan]

I believe their commercials get national air time. Doesn't mean a thing.

Id say they're working....

[hub-city]

On article I read mentioned that Bass Pro was the main tenant that they were trying to lure to this project.