Dillard Creek Commons | Creekside Village

[btoy]

On article I read mentioned that Bass Pro was the main tenant that they were trying to lure to this project.

It was probubly this article.

[g-man430]

^^^Good news. I hope this development goes through, which it will. I have been to many BPS stores before. I even have a BPS t-shirt and reward zone card.

[crescentmoon]

^^^Good news. I hope this development goes through, which it will. I have been to many BPS stores before. I even have a BPS t-shirt and reward zone card.

Why are you so sure it will happen? BSP doesn't go anywhere without substantial public sector support. At this location it's Spartanburg County. How likely are they to pony-up?

And what about the state? Will they?

[g-man430]

Why are you so sure it will happen? BSP doesn't go anywhere without substantial public sector support. At this location it's Spartanburg County. How likely are they to pony-up?

And what about the state? Will they?

Did they build a store in Myrtle Beach? Is that in this state? Maybe I know more stuff than you do about this project. I don't see the state turning down 2,000 jobs.

[Spartan]

Its still to early to make calls about tennants for a site that is still very early in the development process. Spartanburg County will certainly hold up its end of the agreement. They have yet to turn away any development, good or bad, to my knowledge. The exception being that landfill a few years back.

Just a general rant about the Upstate here: all of our governments need to learn that its ok to say "no" to development. We aren't going to scare it away. It will happen one way or the other, so it may as well take the form of something we want, rather than what the developers want.

[goodbye]

...

Just a general rant about the Upstate here: all of our governments need to learn that its ok to say "no" to development. We aren't going to scare it away. It will happen one way or the other, so it may as well take the form of something we want, rather than what the developers want.

I agree. If BPS is going to come to the Upstate, and this is the project they have chosen, I would rather they had decided to locate either next to the North Tyger River (?) or Lake Hartwell. Basically, it appears we're about to witness another phase of random Upstate sprawl. It makes me sick to think about. I'm up for the I-85 Corridor steering commitee you spoke of earlier, Spartan.

[btoy]

They said no to Cabela's in N. Chas. so I don't think they are afraid to say no.

[Spartan]

^^ I agree Skyliner. I think we are on the verge of another development explosion (as if what we are currently experiencing isn't rediculous enough). BTW, I think thats the Enoree. Don't hold me to it though.

Thats true in Charleston, btoy. They do say no. But not here in the Upstate. We accept things built to the lowest standard because we don't have regulations in place to require better development as a region. Its not due to a lack of desire for nice things, its a lack of politcal will to make it happen. Our cities generally have higher standards, but they aren't influencing the design of the new structues and projects at the county level.

[Greenville]

^^ I agree Skyliner. I think we are on the verge of another development explosion (as if what we are currently experiencing isn't rediculous enough). BTW, I think thats the Enoree. Don't hold me to it though.

Thats true in Charleston, btoy. They do say no. But not here in the Upstate. We accept things built to the lowest standard because we don't have regulations in place to require better development as a region. Its not due to a lack of desire for nice things, its a lack of politcal will to make it happen. Our cities generally have higher standards, but they aren't influencing the design of the new structues and projects at the county level.

So because North Charleston said no to Cabela's, they are somehow more progressive and selective? Last time I checked, the lowcountry has sprawl as ugly as you'll find anywhere else in the state.

[Spartan]

True, but the Charleston region has implemented urban growth boundaries and the City has very tough regulations, especially on the peninsula. I'm not trying to say Charleston is some kind of beacon of light or anything, but its a step up from the Upstate in terms of what they allow and don't allow. The Charleston region and in general and even the Lowcountry are much more progressive than we are, in my opinion.

[btoy]

^^ I agree Skyliner. I think we are on the verge of another development explosion (as if what we are currently experiencing isn't rediculous enough). BTW, I think thats the Enoree. Don't hold me to it though.

Thats true in Charleston, btoy. They do say no. But not here in the Upstate. We accept things built to the lowest standard because we don't have regulations in place to require better development as a region. Its not due to a lack of desire for nice things, its a lack of politcal will to make it happen. Our cities generally have higher standards, but they aren't influencing the design of the new structues and projects at the county level.

Let me clairify things, The Cabela's was to be in N. Chas., it was he State that said no. The state would not give tax breaks for retail jobs. All I am saying is that if BPS shops goes to the state for the same time of Tax Breaks Cabela's wanted than the State might say no. I think, no, I know, that Greer and will bend over for BPS. And Spartanburg County will do nothing and probublay can't do anything to stop it if they wanted to, I have no clue to what their stance would be about incentives though.

[Spartan]

I see what you mean now. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of incentives for retailers though. Industry has a much higher multiplier effect than retail, so that I understand.

Spartanburg County would approve it. But even if it was rejected it wouldn't matter because the site will have to be annexed into Greer anyway to get utilities. I've not heard of Greer rejecting anything lately either.

[g-man430]

You guys are confusing me. You want a Bass Pro Shops, but are against this development that will include one. Why doesn't that make any sense? I for one am for this development and hope it happens.

[goodbye]

You guys are confusing me. You want a Bass Pro Shops, but are against this development that will include one. Why doesn't that make any sense? I for one am for this development and hope it happens.

What information do you have and from whom? You usually post an excerpt from an email. Something tells me this is just G-man trying to look like he has the "inside" scoop on this project.

[g-man430]

What information do you have and from whom? You usually post an excerpt from an email. Something tells me this is just G-man trying to look like he has the "inside" scoop on this project.

G-man has his reliable sources too.

[crescentmoon]

I see what you mean now. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of incentives for retailers though. Industry has a much higher multiplier effect than retail, so that I understand.

Spartanburg County would approve it. But even if it was rejected it wouldn't matter because the site will have to be annexed into Greer anyway to get utilities. I've not heard of Greer rejecting anything lately either.

The site is already in the city of Greer ... there may be some small parcels that need to be annexed, but it is largely already in the city limits. While you may not have "heard of Greer rejecting anything" that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It does ... it just doesn't make it into the press, which I assume is your primary source of information.

It will apparently surprise some of you to know that Greer has some of the strictest development regulations in the upstate. They passed these new regs about 5 years ago with very little fanfare from the press.

I am bewildered that this development is referred to by some as "sprawl." It is inside a municipality, at the junction of two major and recently improved highways. It is close to existing major industrial and residential development.

Just because some posters have referred to this a Cherrydale like development, don't assume that is what this is

[GvilleSC]

The site is already in the city of Greer ... there may be some small parcels that need to be annexed, but it is largely already in the city limits. While you may not have "heard of Greer rejecting anything" that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It does ... it just doesn't make it into the press, which I assume is your primary source of information.

It will apparently surprise some of you to know that Greer has some of the strictest development regulations in the upstate. They passed these new regs about 5 years ago with very little fanfare from the press.

I am bewildered that this development is referred to by some as "sprawl." It is inside a municipality, at the junction of two major and recently improved highways. It is close to existing major industrial and residential development.

Just because some posters have referred to this a Cherrydale like development, don't assume that is what this is

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then I call it a duck. Sprawl can and does exist in city limits. When looking at the various definitions of sprawl, you'll find one thing common among them all: dependent on cars, as well as being uncontrolled and unplanned growth. This development will more than likely add to our dependancy on cars. It's out in the suburbs and will more than likely spur more uncontrolled and unplanned growth.

[crescentmoon]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then I call it a duck. Sprawl can and does exist in city limits. When looking at the various definitions of sprawl, you'll find one thing common among them all: dependent on cars, as well as being uncontrolled and unplanned growth. This development will more than likely add to our dependancy on cars. It's out in the suburbs and will more than likely spur more uncontrolled and unplanned growth.

Ok, so the concern is "dependancy on cars." Then it seems to me that shopping should be close to where the people live so you don't have to spend so much time in those cars. This development is close to where a great many do live. Why should they have to go to Greenville or Spartanburg to shop in the stores they want to shop in? The dual highway access also serves people traveling to and from work. This development is very much on the beaten path for a great many people.

This is not "uncontrolled and unplanned growth." This intersection has long been planned for commercial and/or industrial growth. It is, afterall, the one intersection between GSP and Pelham Road. Afterall, it is the intersection of an Interstate and a six lane highway!

[g-man430]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then I call it a duck. Sprawl can and does exist in city limits. When looking at the various definitions of sprawl, you'll find one thing common among them all: dependent on cars, as well as being uncontrolled and unplanned growth. This development will more than likely add to our dependancy on cars. It's out in the suburbs and will more than likely spur more uncontrolled and unplanned growth.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it must be Aflac. I can't believe people on this forum are against a development that will create 2,000 jobs and have a Bass Pro Shops. Sad indeed.

[GvilleSC]

Ok, so the concern is "dependancy on cars." Then it seems to me that shopping should be close to where the people live so you don't have to spend so much time in those cars. This development is close to where a great many do live. Why should they have to go to Greenville or Spartanburg to shop in the stores they want to shop in? The dual highway access also serves people traveling to and from work. This development is very much on the beaten path for a great many people.

This is not "uncontrolled and unplanned growth." This intersection has long been planned for commercial and/or industrial growth. It is, afterall, the one intersection between GSP and Pelham Road. Afterall, it is the intersection of an Interstate and a six lane highway!

It's not within walking distance of these homes is it? These homes are probably in dead end neighborhoods, which also can be considered sprawl-- they're all contributing to the dependancy on the car. Controlling growth is more than just zoning. Controlling growth needs to be more along the lines of regulating density, parking, addressing the streets, entry points, flow efficiency, and pedestrian friendliness.

[GvilleSC]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it must be Aflac. I can't believe people on this forum are against a development that will create 2,000 jobs and have a Bass Pro Shops. Sad indeed.

I'm not saying that I'm not infavor of it. I love the creation of jobs and I hope that we get a BPS. Go back and read my post again, if you're referring to me. I'm responding to someone's attempt to claim this as not being sprawl. Of course, we'll have to wait until it comes out in site plan form to know, but right now it's looking to be another shops at Greenridge/Cherrydale.

[g-man430]

I'm not saying that I'm not infavor of it. I love the creation of jobs and I hope that we get a BPS. Go back and read my post again, if you're referring to me. I'm responding to someone's attempt to claim this as not being sprawl. Of course, we'll have to wait until it comes out in site plan form to know, but right now it's looking to be another shops at Greenridge/Cherrydale.

Oh. My bad. Yes it is sprawl, but it would include a BPS, so i'm for it in that regard. If it wasn't going to include a BPS then I might have different thoughts about this project.

[Spartan]

The site is already in the city of Greer ... there may be some small parcels that need to be annexed, but it is largely already in the city limits. While you may not have "heard of Greer rejecting anything" that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. It does ... it just doesn't make it into the press, which I assume is your primary source of information.

It will apparently surprise some of you to know that Greer has some of the strictest development regulations in the upstate. They passed these new regs about 5 years ago with very little fanfare from the press.

I am bewildered that this development is referred to by some as "sprawl." It is inside a municipality, at the junction of two major and recently improved highways. It is close to existing major industrial and residential development.

Just because some posters have referred to this a Cherrydale like development, don't assume that is what this is

I have never heard of any city or county in this area rejecting any significant development once it has been put on the table like this. I have heard of some negotiating behind the scenes that I can't talk about, but even those are over other technicalities and not whether the site meets certain expectations. If this development doesn't happen, it won't be because Greer or Spartanburg County or whoever said so, it will be because the devloper let it flop.

Just because its inside the city limits doesn't mean its magically not sprawl. Infact a lot of the land within Greer, Greenville, Spartanburg, Anderson, etc. is sprawl. But its still to early to say if this development will be true sprawl or not. Maybe this will be a huge new urbanist community like Birkdale Village in Charlotte, or some other kind of well designed, well planned development. Like I said before, I'll hold my final opinion until I see some site design plans.

Also, to address the jobs issue gman- unless this will create office space for workers, research, or some other sort of higher paying job, I will not be excited about 2,000 retail jobs paying $7-8 an hour.

This is not "uncontrolled and unplanned growth." This intersection has long been planned for commercial and/or industrial growth. It is, afterall, the one intersection between GSP and Pelham Road. Afterall, it is the intersection of an Interstate and a six lane highway!

There is a difference between expected growth and planned growth. What plan have you seen, crescentmoon? I'd like to get a copy of it.

[goodbye]

I would hope that if it is a new urbanist village, it will include a high density residential component. Otherwise, what can we expect will happen to the surrounding area? One six-letter word is the answer.

[GvilleSC]

I would hope that if it is a new urbanist village, it will include a high density residential component. Otherwise, what can we expect will happen to the surrounding area? One six-letter word is the answer.

That would be nice and it would provide a potential light rail stop on the way to GSP...

Question dealing with sprawl and development: I'm sure it's possible, but do you ever think it would happen that a county would set up a masterplan? Some aspects would be feasible, but at the same time, there's a lot of land and it would be very overwhelming as well as possibly unnecessary at the moment...? Lay out where streets would go, what type of developments would be acceptable in certain areas, and pretty much just regulate the future growth. Developers would be allowed to alter plans through approval from a review board, but would have to keep the connectivity of streets basically the same. Really, I'd just want to see a large, usable grid system that would promote mass transit and help save some natural areas... Just throwing this out there for discussion