Parking problem downtown - too much of it? Not enough?

[GR_Urbanist]

I think that the only way that a light rail line will really take off is if we go big in the beginning and take it to the lakeshore communities.

Add eventually the GVSU/M45 corridor, northern GR and southern GR Metro area, as well as  a link to  the airport.

[Morris]

I have always found free parking right downtown!

http://grcity.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/FREE-Scooter-Parking.aspx

Europe has solved it's very tight parking problems with scooters, bicycles, mass transit, car parking outside city centers.....You can get at least 6 scooters in one car parking place! Also, not many people know, Grand Rapids traffic patterns with mainly 25 mph speed limits, is very conducive to scooters. Of course, with most city leaders think mass transit and bicycles are the way to go, because of their spending millions on buses, and bike lanes. Not too many people want to ride on a bus, wait for buses, slow bus rides that tend to stop at every corner, and the sharing of rides with others with nasty habits and smells! Of course, unless you are going or coming on a bus route, transfers are a pain, and riding the bus, sometimes takes hours, if it goes to where you want to go.  Bicycles are really not too traffic friendly, being too slow, takes very good health to peddle, (especially  uphill), city planning with extended street curbs, car parkers, not looking when opening car doors, and other hazards. 

Yes, we can learn from other US cities, but we have to look at the rest of the world, also, with their solutions

Edited February 18, 2017 by Morris

[EastownLeo]

Grand rapids Scooter parking really only helps those in the core. In at least, one of the lots its not covered and used illegally by motorcycles.

I would love to see more spots for free scooter parking that was covered. 

[GRDadof3]

On 2/18/2017 at 3:42 AM, Morris said:

I have always found free parking right downtown!

http://grcity.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/FREE-Scooter-Parking.aspx

Europe has solved it's very tight parking problems with scooters, bicycles, mass transit, car parking outside city centers.....You can get at least 6 scooters in one car parking place! Also, not many people know, Grand Rapids traffic patterns with mainly 25 mph speed limits, is very conducive to scooters. Of course, with most city leaders think mass transit and bicycles are the way to go, because of their spending millions on buses, and bike lanes. Not too many people want to ride on a bus, wait for buses, slow bus rides that tend to stop at every corner, and the sharing of rides with others with nasty habits and smells! Of course, unless you are going or coming on a bus route, transfers are a pain, and riding the bus, sometimes takes hours, if it goes to where you want to go.  Bicycles are really not too traffic friendly, being too slow, takes very good health to peddle, (especially  uphill), city planning with extended street curbs, car parkers, not looking when opening car doors, and other hazards. 

Yes, we can learn from other US cities, but we have to look at the rest of the world, also, with their solutions

When I read "Europe has" my eyes glazed over. I remember a time when I thought America could be more like Europe. The naivete' of youth!

[x99]

23 minutes ago, temporary.name said:

OK....now convince nurse Annie who works twelve hour night shifts to ride her scooter for half an hour each way through a foot of snow and single digit temperatures. Let me know how it goes.

Yup.  And we're right back to light rail and scooters.   Scooters obviously don't work (rain, snow, distance from home, etc.), and the cost for light rail compared to building parking ramps is completely untenable.  The big gripe the city has is that people in the suburbs don't do what "they" want them to do.  The idea that we cannot "build our way out" of this is absurd.  The roads flat out are NOT often congested except where lanes have been intentionally reduced or eliminated.  The response of the city is basically, "if you don't like how it is, you get two options.  Behind door one is "take the bus" for some or all of your commute into our office park.  Behind door 2 is "go somewhere else."  To wit:

The city says it is at 95 percent capacity for monthly parking, and as a solution, they require new developments to construct parking ramps. "We're not not building parking," said Grand Rapids Mobile Manager Josh Naramore. "The way in which we're trying to provide it to the market is different than the way it had been in the past." Naramore says one example includes building surface lots on the outskirts of downtown and having people take a shuttle. "I think there is some frustration in the business community, but I think you're always going to hear people saying that there's never enough parking and we can't build fast enough," Naramore said. "And I think to that end, we're really trying to have a balanced approach.  We don't want to build too much too quickly, and we also don't want to not put it in the right space."

"They can choose to carpool and keep that money for themselves," said Downtown Grand Rapids Inc. President Kris Larson. "They can ride a bus, they can walk, they can live in close to work, they can bicycle, they can take an Uber to work.  There's lots of different ways to access it, but what we're really trying to do is making sure we're not building a parking-only downtown."  (http://fox17online.com/2017/02/08/downtown-parking-concerns-as-gr-prepares-for-theater-development/)

This is not going to get better until voters throw the Commission out and install people with the good sense to either tell these clowns to 1) build some parking, 2) show themselves the door, or 3) yank all of Spectrum's passes  (how dumb was that--seriously, HOW DUMB?!).  The current crop of losers does not care one iota about anything except getting rid of cars, which is seen as some sort of moral triumph, even if its economically insane. 

 

[GRDadof3]

1 minute ago, x99 said:

Yup.  And we're right back to light rail and scooters.   Scooters obviously don't work (rain, snow, distance from home, etc.), and the cost for light rail compared to building parking ramps is completely untenable.  The big gripe the city has is that people in the suburbs don't do what "they" want them to do.  The idea that we cannot "build our way out" of this is absurd.  The roads flat out are NOT often congested except where lanes have been intentionally reduced or eliminated.  The response of the city is basically, "if you don't like how it is, you get two options.  Behind door one is "take the bus" for some or all of your commute into our office park.  Behind door 2 is "go somewhere else."  To wit:

The city says it is at 95 percent capacity for monthly parking, and as a solution, they require new developments to construct parking ramps. "We're not not building parking," said Grand Rapids Mobile Manager Josh Naramore. "The way in which we're trying to provide it to the market is different than the way it had been in the past." Naramore says one example includes building surface lots on the outskirts of downtown and having people take a shuttle. "I think there is some frustration in the business community, but I think you're always going to hear people saying that there's never enough parking and we can't build fast enough," Naramore said. "And I think to that end, we're really trying to have a balanced approach.  We don't want to build too much too quickly, and we also don't want to not put it in the right space."

"They can choose to carpool and keep that money for themselves," said Downtown Grand Rapids Inc. President Kris Larson. "They can ride a bus, they can walk, they can live in close to work, they can bicycle, they can take an Uber to work.  There's lots of different ways to access it, but what we're really trying to do is making sure we're not building a parking-only downtown."  (http://fox17online.com/2017/02/08/downtown-parking-concerns-as-gr-prepares-for-theater-development/)

This is not going to get better until voters throw the Commission out and install people with the good sense to either tell these clowns to 1) build some parking, 2) show themselves the door, or 3) yank all of Spectrum's passes  (how dumb was that--seriously, HOW DUMB?!).  The current crop of losers does not care one iota about anything except getting rid of cars, which is seen as some sort of moral triumph, even if its economically insane. 

 

Technically Josh Naramore and Kristopher Larson are not commissioners nor are they elected. They're paid staff, with (I assume) at-will employment contracts. 

 

[thebeerqueer]

22 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Technically Josh Naramore and Kristopher Larson are not commissioners nor are they elected. They're paid staff, with (I assume) at-will employment contracts. 

 

I might catch some flax for this but I think Josh Naramore is doing the best he can with the situation at hand. I feel like the previous parking services leader (Pam ... idk) faced similar situations and criticisms. I think there's no one single answer but a multi-faceted approached to alleviating parking concerns. Additionally, as many level headed UPers have pointed out here, these things take time to evolve and resolve. The city's recent announcement of two new surface lots will provide a temporary relief and will hopefully keep employers attention to the fact that the city isn't neglecting the issue. 

From a personal standpoint, as someone who commutes out of GR for work and is really only DT at nights and on the weekend, its so rare that I struggle to find parking more than a couple of blocks away from my destination. 

[TheSutterKing]

I've been living in Miami and San Diego, and to think GR has a parking problem is crazy. I may not commute regularly within GR like most of the commenters on here, but I do get the chance to occasionally go back and visit GR and when I've been back I've never had any issues of finding free parking within a few blocks away from where I want to be. That being said, for most of the people that do have daily commutes downtown, I have noticed quite a bunch of projects that will have tons of parking (Meijer, Celebration, etc..) not to mention if you look on Google maps, GR is littered with parking lots. But, to go along with the topic of future expansion of the city, I feel it's in the best interest for the city to turn those parking lots into parking garages and start building apartments along division (Where the Silver Line exists) and Lake Michigan Dr. (Where the Laker Line will be). That way the city will make use of something that it already has.

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, TheSutterKing said:

I've been living in Miami and San Diego, and to think GR has a parking problem is crazy. I may not commute regularly within GR like most of the commenters on here, but I do get the chance to occasionally go back and visit GR and when I've been back I've never had any issues of finding free parking within a few blocks away from where I want to be. That being said, for most of the people that do have daily commutes downtown, I have noticed quite a bunch of projects that will have tons of parking (Meijer, Celebration, etc..) not to mention if you look on Google maps, GR is littered with parking lots. But, to go along with the topic of future expansion of the city, I feel it's in the best interest for the city to turn those parking lots into parking garages and start building apartments along division (Where the Silver Line exists) and Lake Michigan Dr. (Where the Laker Line will be). That way the city will make use of something that it already has.

The city doesn't build apartments...

I think that if developers/investors thought building apartments along South Division was a good move, they would have done so already. But nothing has been built. Wonder why?

I can maybe see that as a possibility on the West Side along the Laker Line, but land is pretty scarce, unless Lincoln Country Club sells. Apparently the property behind Meijer and LMD is proposed to have a mixed-use TOD concept with apartments. Apartments out at GVSU's campus are way overbuilt IMO. It's going to take some time to absorb all the new projects. 

 

[Ted]

42 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

The city doesn't build apartments...

I think that if developers/investors thought building apartments along South Division was a good move, they would have done so already. But nothing has been built. Wonder why?

I can maybe see that as a possibility on the West Side along the Laker Line, but land is pretty scarce, unless Lincoln Country Club sells. Apparently the property behind Meijer and LMD is proposed to have a mixed-use TOD concept with apartments. Apartments out at GVSU's campus are way overbuilt IMO. It's going to take some time to absorb all the new projects. 

 

One reason apartments haven't been built along Division is that our zoning ordinance hasn't been modified to align with our transit investments. Any project of any size and will be a site by site battle for density increases. Costly and time consuming.

It's a problem.

[x99]

5 hours ago, thebeerqueer said:

I might catch some flax for this but I think Josh Naramore is doing the best he can with the situation at hand. I feel like the previous parking services leader (Pam ... idk) faced similar situations and criticisms. I think there's no one single answer but a multi-faceted approached to alleviating parking concerns.

I would have agreed until I looked up Naramore's resume.  It's basically multi-modal mode shifting this and that.  It' snot exactly reassuring to anyone who has a vested interest in seeing adequate parking.

9 minutes ago, Ted said:

One reason apartments haven't been built along Division is that our zoning ordinance hasn't been modified to align with our transit investments. Any project of any size and will be a site by site battle for density increases. Costly and time consuming.

The zoning code is a joke which seems to have been designed more for Forest Hills than for a city, once you get out of the TN-CC classification.  I tend to think you have a problem when the bulk of your existing built environment in most of the "traditional" zoning classes are grandfathered non-conforming.  The built city environment that exists today could never be built under the current zoning code, which is just bizarre. 

[GRDadof3]

20 minutes ago, Ted said:

One reason apartments haven't been built along Division is that our zoning ordinance hasn't been modified to align with our transit investments. Any project of any size and will be a site by site battle for density increases. Costly and time consuming.

It's a problem.

The city of Grand Rapids is only about 1/2 the Silver Line route along South Division. Does Wyoming have restrictive zoning that is blocking development? 

[Ted]

11 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

The city of Grand Rapids is only about 1/2 the Silver Line route along South Division. Does Wyoming have restrictive zoning that is blocking development? 

Wyoming and Kentwood are trying to change but I don't think they've succeeded yet.

[joeDowntown]

Kris Larson forgot to mention skateboards. Can I ride my skateboard to work? In a Michigan winter, with six inches of snow, uphill, both ways?

If you work downtown, you know there's a problem. It may not be as apparent at night. And it has become much more of a problem in the last 3 years. I used to laugh at people who said there wasn't any parking. Until there wasn't any parking. 

But let's all take an Uber or carpool. It's very affordable to take an uber both ways, 5 days a week (not). And everyone lives next to someone who wants to carpool, right?!  Eyeroll. 

[elcelc]

Come June 1, the Monroe North parking lot will be closing as part of the Restore the River project.  There are a handful of residential spots there but it's mostly for the offices in the area and is typically 75% full.  The recent loss of free, on-street parking sent a lot of people to this and other lots rather than fight for the good street spots. 

[GRDadof3]

$100,000 is being sought for a bike-share study:

http://woodtv.com/2017/02/17/grand-rapids-commission-to-discuss-bike-share-study/

Didn't GR have a bike share program that's now gone? 

 

 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, temporary.name said:

Skateboards have been illegal downtown for decades. Guess GR really doesn't like alternative transportation.

Skateboarding is not a crime.

[GRDadof3]

21 hours ago, thebeerqueer said:

I might catch some flax for this but I think Josh Naramore is doing the best he can with the situation at hand. I feel like the previous parking services leader (Pam ... idk) faced similar situations and criticisms. I think there's no one single answer but a multi-faceted approached to alleviating parking concerns. Additionally, as many level headed UPers have pointed out here, these things take time to evolve and resolve. The city's recent announcement of two new surface lots will provide a temporary relief and will hopefully keep employers attention to the fact that the city isn't neglecting the issue. 

From a personal standpoint, as someone who commutes out of GR for work and is really only DT at nights and on the weekend, its so rare that I struggle to find parking more than a couple of blocks away from my destination. 

Yes, we should probably reset this conversation as less of a "witch hunt" on city staff and more ideas for solving the issues. We all apparently love Grand Rapids or we wouldn't keep coming back to UP.

The city needs to show they're trying, that they understand that businesses downtown are paramount to Grand Rapids total success, and that businesses need to be open to new ideas. You only need to get in your car and drive less than an hour to find failing cities in Michigan, where the business community has turned its back(s) on the city, and vice versa.

Or get on your bike and ride to those cities in 3 hours!  

[Ted]

11 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Skateboarding is not a crime.

Skateboarding is not a crime.

[wingbert]

15 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Skateboarding is not a crime.

 

3 hours ago, Ted said:

Skateboarding is not a crime.

Skateboarding is not a crime. 

[GRDadof3]

13 hours ago, Ted said:

Skateboarding is not a crime.

 

9 hours ago, wingbert said:

 

Skateboarding is not a crime. 

I heard skateboarding is not a crime. 

[Ted]

10 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

 

I heard skateboarding is not a crime. 

It's true.

[joeDowntown]

I'm a monthly parker in the JW ramp and got a notice yesterday that they are out of space so they're raising rates by 10%. That's has to be one of the (if not the biggest) ramps downtown. 

Joe

[GRDadof3]

12 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I'm a monthly parker in the JW ramp and got a notice yesterday that they are out of space so they're raising rates by 10%. That's has to be one of the (if not the biggest) ramps downtown. 

Joe

There's no parking problem Joe. No.problem. Nothing to see here. 

[WMrapids]

4 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

There's no parking problem Joe. No.problem. Nothing to see here.