Parking problem downtown - too much of it? Not enough?

[GRDadof3]

5 hours ago, demhem said:

Spectrum won't leave because they don't have enough parking; not with the agglomeration economy they've created on Michigan Avenue with the VanAndel Institute, MSU Medical School, GVSU Health Science, and the Ferris Pharmacy program. An agglomeration economy is a strong force. This is what attracts firms to a downtown and what keeps them there. They will find other solutions as they have with paying for their employee's access to the Silver Line. 

Again, a shortage of monthly passes does not equal a shortage of available spaces. You have someone creating an artificial limit. That ratio can be adjusted if open spaces during the day are underutilized. This is a viable option. 

Until I see data on vacancy rates that provides a different story than the Colliers update, everything I'm reading is hearsay. 

Nobody is referencing the Colliers report except for you. There was a study released by the city, it was linked in the articles I posted. There is a "shortage" of monthly parking passes and many ramps have waiting lists. DASH West is now full. I believe the only lots with openings are the Government Center/calder ramp and devos place now. 

You can't just take hourly spots away and allocate them to monthly because that digs into retail users, museum users, and business client meetings and visitors. 

Access to the Silver Line? That assumes your white collar employees actually live anywhere near the Silver Line (unlikely since it runs through the poorest areas of the city/county).

22 minutes ago, wingbert said:

Forget the monthly parkers and all that hoo ha for a moment and think about the hourly parkers who are the customers and clients of downtown businesses.  

Hey there Mr. or Mrs. Client, come to my office (for an hour or maybe two) for a meeting.  I know you don't work downtown and know all the parking options so here's all you have to do...

• "hope the ramp by my office has a spot available"
• "be sure to drop what you are doing and leave extra early so you have time to drive around until you find something"
• "park across the river and take the Dash bus over”
• “come to the closest bus stop to my office on the Silver Line or some other bus route”
• “ride your bike to my office”
• “park over at the Calder Plaza lot and walk to Heartside or wharever (real fun during next week’s temps)”
• “bring change and park at a meter (but don’t be 30 seconds late or the city will be there to ding you with a ticket)”
• “go and download an app to help you park downtown when you leave your office in your car to drive to my office”
• "your time isn't important so work around these things in order to do business with me"

This. ^^^ 

[x99]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

Nobody is referencing the Colliers report except for you. There was a study released by the city, it was linked in the articles I posted. There is a "shortage" of monthly parking passes and many ramps have waiting lists. DASH West is now full. I believe the only lots with openings are the Government Center/calder ramp and devos place now. 

DASH West lots actually are NOT full, and they are the only thing with openings, about 130.  Every other parking area is completely full on monthly.  http://grcity.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Monthly-Cards-Available.aspx.  If it doesn't loosen up, I don't know how it's going to be possible to stay downtown for a lot of businesses.  The only thing I can think of is that maaaybe CWD has been buying up buildings with owned parking and doling it out on the down low to prevent an exodus from their buildings?  All of their listings are already pulled from CARWM, which is a fairly recent development.  But if that 616 movie theater thing happens, and the Warner "Tower" happens, it's going to be a clusterf---.  The Arena lots would shove cars to who-knows-where and probably load up DASH West, running everything down to zero.  Warner Tower is going to suck up a ton of courthouse and business hourly, which will go to... where?  I suppose the no-man's-land on Division? McKay Tower, Waters, Trust, Ledyard, and Fed Square building tenants are going to have a rough time.  

Edited June 9, 2017 by x99

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, x99 said:

DASH West lots actually are NOT full, and they are the only thing with openings, about 130.  Every other parking area is completely full on monthly.  http://grcity.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Monthly-Cards-Available.aspx.  If it doesn't loosen up, I don't know how it's going to be possible to stay downtown for a lot of businesses.  The only thing I can think of is that maaaybe CWD has been buying up buildings with owned parking and doling it out on the down low to prevent an exodus from their buildings?  All of their listings are already pulled from CARWM, which is a fairly recent development.  But if that 616 movie theater thing happens, and the Warner "Tower" happens, it's going to be a clusterf---.  The Arena lots would shove cars to who-knows-where and probably load up DASH West, running everything down to zero.  Warner Tower is going to suck up a ton of courthouse and business hourly, which will go to... where?  I suppose the no-man's-land on Division? McKay Tower, Waters, Trust, Ledyard, and Fed Square building tenants are going to have a rough time.  

Oh yes, you're right. DASH West is the ONLY place to get monthly cards now. 

http://grcity.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Monthly-Cards-Available.aspx

[joeDowntown]

Parking shortage is fake news.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

10 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Parking shortage is fake news.

Joe

 Many chamber members are automotive suppliers. Fewer parking spots means fewer cars can be sold, meaning fewer cupholders and armrests. I see the connection...

[MJLO]

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/06/new_paved_lot_near_grand_rapid.html#incart_2box_news_grand-rapids

300 new spaces by September.  It's not the 30,000 new spaces everyone wants but it's a start

[x99]

50 minutes ago, MJLO said:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/06/new_paved_lot_near_grand_rapid.html#incart_2box_news_grand-rapids

300 new spaces by September.  It's not the 30,000 new spaces everyone wants but it's a start

Except they aren't even close to downtown.  They're south of Wealthy.  And why/how does it cost $7000 per space for a temporary surface lot?  Just spend the extra and build permanent structured parking if it's going to be that ridiculous.  The cost for this should be a quarter of what is being quoted.  I'd just hit that sucker with a bulldozer to sort of flatten it, and lay down some pervious asphalt.  I mean, it's temporary anyway, right?  

[ctpgr34]

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/06/grand_rapids_to_put_permit_par.html#incart_river_home

[demhem]

On 6/9/2017 at 10:19 AM, joeDowntown said:

So when I park in a ramp daily that has a handful of spots open, that's hearsay? [confused]

One stat I would love to see. Number of "open" spots in downtown parking ramps that are unavailable because people don't know how to park and park over the lines. I can guarantee there is a big loss there. Knowing our leaders, they'll probably offer parking lessons, or a parking lesson app (because, you know, apps are cool) instead of addressing the bigger problem. haha

As for @x99, I agree that Spectrum added to the shortage, but shouldn't city leaders be prepared for this (or have a plan)? People complain about the major corporations staying in the burbs. What if one decided to move downtown? Would that be a BAD thing (you always reference Spectrum as being bad. I think 500 employees is good)?

It seems like there should be short, medium and long-term plans. GR seems to have a long-term plan that involves bicycles and autonomous vehicles.

Joe

"So when I park in a ramp daily that has a handful of spots open, that's hearsay? [confused]"

My statement was in regard to office vacancy, not parking.

[GRDadof3]

On 6/13/2017 at 2:55 PM, x99 said:

Except they aren't even close to downtown.  They're south of Wealthy.  And why/how does it cost $7000 per space for a temporary surface lot?  Just spend the extra and build permanent structured parking if it's going to be that ridiculous.  The cost for this should be a quarter of what is being quoted.  I'd just hit that sucker with a bulldozer to sort of flatten it, and lay down some pervious asphalt.  I mean, it's temporary anyway, right?  

I think the cost of that particular lot is exorbitant because it needs a huge retaining wall, due to the slope of that property. With that kind of investment I don't know how "temporary" it will be. What I thought might be cool is leave space along Ionia at the base of that retaining wall for food trucks to park. Or vendors to set up for festivals or something. The food truck fest on Ionia seemed to get a pretty good turnout. 

[scottythe1nonly]

Does anybody know what the long term plan is for parking at the new MSU building at Michigan and Monroe.  Are they putting in a ramp?  Or are they going to use that property for a surface lot?

[GRDadof3]

17 hours ago, scottythe1nonly said:

Does anybody know what the long term plan is for parking at the new MSU building at Michigan and Monroe.  Are they putting in a ramp?  Or are they going to use that property for a surface lot?

I believe they got approval for a ramp down the road. If you haven't been by there recently, it's all landscaping and surface lot now. 

[x99]

18 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I think the cost of that particular lot is exorbitant because it needs a huge retaining wall, due to the slope of that property. With that kind of investment I don't know how "temporary" it will be.

I assume that the grade is part of the cost.  Seems like it would make more sense to sacrifice a few extra spaces in order to do the grade change at the angle out of earthen materials, and then landscape it.  No retaining wall, no storm water management, no curbing--temporary.  Pointless discussion, since the project has already been approved, but it highlights just how foolishly the city often spends money.  Assuming a ramp would have cost, say $28,000 per space, they could have used the same money to put in an extra 70 or so permanent ramp spaces downtown, where they are more critically needed.  

[wingbert]

Well, I think just about everyone will find something in this article that supports their point of view.

What's Driving the Future of Parking Garage Design

[EastownLeo]

Not exactly downtown but Eastown.

Sat through a neighborhood meeting discussing our neighborhood residential parking permit process.

A few take aways. 

1. Only residents of the home can purchase permits. (24 hour guest passes are $2 per day)

2. If implemented, those who can not get permits will essentially be pushed to the streets surrounding the permit area and become that streets problem.

3. If a street wants to be added to the residential permit zone, the whole voting process needs to be done again. (you can't just add a street)

4. If you vote the permit down or in, you can not have another vote for 3 years. (if you vote no, you have to deal with 3 years of it even if parking becomes more of an issue)

5. for residents that have many guests, you are limited to 30 guest passes per 6 months, any over that, your guest will get ticketed if parked on the street. (if you have a baby sitter at you house twice a week, you run out of guest passes in 15 weeks and can't get more, risking tickets.)

 

Overall the permit process does not seem to be a good fit especially for the eastown area, where it is commercial business guests that use much of the street parking. A permit process like this will probably only create more problems for businesses, and push parking issues to the surrounding streets that do not have the permit system.  There first step should probably be more creative community solutions, rather than regulations and fees.

Only one neighborhood other than Eastown has pursued the permit system and voted, Belknap Lookout has it, but they don't have any commercial parking needs.  

http://www.grand-rapids.mi.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Residential-Parking-Permits-Obtain.aspx

Edited November 17, 2017 by EastownLeo

[Kinkema]

26 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

Not exactly downtown but Eastown.

Sat through a neighborhood meeting discussing our neighborhood residential parking permit process.

A few take aways. 

1. Only residents of the home can purchase permits. (24 hour guest passes are $2 per day)

2. If implemented, those who can not get permits will essentially be pushed to the streets surrounding the permit area and become that streets problem.

3. If a street wants to be added to the residential permit zone, the whole voting process needs to be done again. (you can't just add a street)

4. If you vote the permit down or in, you can not have another vote for 3 years. (if you vote no, you have to deal with 3 years of it even if parking becomes more of an issue)

5. for residents that have many guests, you are limited to 30 guest passes per 6 months, any over that, your guest will get ticketed if parked on the street. (if you have a baby sitter at you house twice a week, you run out of guest passes in 15 weeks and can't get more, risking tickets.)

 

Overall the permit process does not seem to be a good fit especially for the eastown area, where it is commercial business guests that use much of the street parking. A permit process like this will probably only create more problems for businesses, and push parking issues to the surrounding streets that do not have the permit system.  There first step should probably be more creative community solutions, rather than regulations and fees.

Only one neighborhood other than Eastown has pursued the permit system and voted, Belknap Lookout has it, but they don't have any commercial parking needs.  

http://www.grand-rapids.mi.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Residential-Parking-Permits-Obtain.aspx

Do people in Eastown really think they have parking issues?  GR as a whole has abundant parking(minus downtown monthly parking). I've never had to park more than a block away from my destination in Eastown on the main streets, let alone in the neighborhoods.  

Also I have an issue with privatizing a public good, especially when we're not charging the residents of the neighborhood to do so. If they want private parking, they should incur the full cost of said parking whether that's through the permit fees or property taxes.

Edited November 17, 2017 by iK1NkY

[EastownLeo]

1 minute ago, iK1NkY said:

Do people in Eastown really think they have parking issues?  GR as a whole has abundant parking(minus downtown monthly parking). I've never had to park more than a block away from my destination in Eastown on the main streets, let alone in the neighborhoods.  

Also I have an issue with privatizing a public good, especially when we're not charging the residents of the neighborhood to do so. If they want private parking, they should incur the full cost of said parking whether that's through the permit fees or property taxes.

The neighborhood as a whole does not seem to have a parking "problem". There are some individuals that do voice they issues and the city and the ECA worked to provide an option to those residents that have the issue.  Eastown, and especially a few blocks north of the Lake and Wealthy intersection do have a larger issue than the surrounding areas.

1. The Eastown Post Office does not have any onsite parking for their employees. They have a large amount of employees at that location. Drivers, sorters, walking postal workers all park in the surrounding streets. Usually from 8AM until 5pm or later depending on shift time.

2. There are many businesses along lake drive, the workers of these businesses do not park at business parking spots. They park into the neighbor hood if they do not live in the area.

3. The Kingsley building is nearing completion and the 30+ units will overflow the provided parking and leach out into the neighborhood.

These are some of the reasons why this issue is slightly more relevant to this area.  Many of us in the area agree that some of GR does not have as much of a parking problem as we have a perception problem.  We are somewhat unique in expecting we should be able to park directly in front of our homes or the businesses we frequent.  That perspective needs to change.

[Pattmost20]

2 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

Not exactly downtown but Eastown.

Sat through a neighborhood meeting discussing our neighborhood residential parking permit process.

A few take aways. 

1. Only residents of the home can purchase permits. (24 hour guest passes are $2 per day)

2. If implemented, those who can not get permits will essentially be pushed to the streets surrounding the permit area and become that streets problem.

3. If a street wants to be added to the residential permit zone, the whole voting process needs to be done again. (you can't just add a street)

4. If you vote the permit down or in, you can not have another vote for 3 years. (if you vote no, you have to deal with 3 years of it even if parking becomes more of an issue)

5. for residents that have many guests, you are limited to 30 guest passes per 6 months, any over that, your guest will get ticketed if parked on the street. (if you have a baby sitter at you house twice a week, you run out of guest passes in 15 weeks and can't get more, risking tickets.)

 

Overall the permit process does not seem to be a good fit especially for the eastown area, where it is commercial business guests that use much of the street parking. A permit process like this will probably only create more problems for businesses, and push parking issues to the surrounding streets that do not have the permit system.  There first step should probably be more creative community solutions, rather than regulations and fees.

Only one neighborhood other than Eastown has pursued the permit system and voted, Belknap Lookout has it, but they don't have any commercial parking needs.  

http://www.grand-rapids.mi.us/enterprise-services/Parking-Services/Pages/Residential-Parking-Permits-Obtain.aspx

I'm generally not a fan of Permit Parking, but a few friends have lived in neighborhoods in Chicago that implement North/South streets are free and East/West streets are permit. If you are going to do permits, I think that is the best way. You can still usually park within a couple blocks of your destination. 

[GR_Urbanist]

Parking permits just make me uncomfortable.

It's akin to how Wyoming blocked off many of their streets and purposely turned them into dead ends to keep all the traffic on a handful of overcrowded feeder roads.  These roads are supposedly paid for by everyone, but they are unnecessarily modified, not for safety like a speed bump, but just for the sensibilities of some of the residents. And if you have the nerve to park there for whatever reason in Eastown's case, you have to pay an "I'm just visiting" tax, but those people in that neighborhood are free to park in other neighborhoods without a special sticker?

I think anyplace that votes for this, needs to have their own fees applied to them, per car the owner posses, for making the street pseudo-private, and they must have a sticker on their cars, so that other parts of the city know that this driver likes a nice street spot where you live, but you have to pay for the privilege where they do.

I'm likely missing something with this, but it just makes my eye roll. Living in E. Hills, I know parking can get tight on the street, but I see it as people wanting to live here, visit, and put money in the hands of the business district, which is a vote of confidence IMO.

[AG3]

I was part of the committee who helped draft the ordinance with the city.  It grew from neighborhood frustration with Spectrum and GVSU using the neighborhood as a parking lot.  I think our condition were much different than these other neighborhoods.

We pleaded for years with Spectrum to help and we were ignored. Gvsu was proactive when we approached them with the issue, and they were surprised to discover how many students were using our neighborhood for parking once they did an independent study.   The issue on the blocks the ordinance was adopted for has much improved. Prior,  we had virtually no on street parking for neighbors. However,  the problem moved over to just the outside edge of the ordinance.  And now those neighbors who never had an issue have a big problem with no on street parking.  I agree that people figure it out.  I also believe we actually have additional spaces  if we change the traffic flow on certain blocks and allow parking on both sides of the road where we can.  That should have been the first conversation. In our neighborhood alone, we have the capacity to add over 500 spaces on street by making some of these changes. This would cost the city very little financially and would actually be a free traffic calming measure.  As numerous studies have proven.   We did a brief scan of other neighborhoods and they would have similar results.   In Chicago you would never see cars only parked on one side.  They also handle what we call odd even parking restrictions much wiser than we do.

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by AG3

[GVSUChris]

https://mibiz.com/item/25352-resolution-calls-on-gr-city-commissioners-to-consider-new-downtown-parking-structure

[GRDadof3]

14 hours ago, GVSUChris said:

https://mibiz.com/item/25352-resolution-calls-on-gr-city-commissioners-to-consider-new-downtown-parking-structure

That's a great spot for a ramp. There are actually people on FB coming out against building a ramp though, any ramp. 

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

That's a great spot for a ramp. There are actually people on FB coming out against building a ramp though, any ramp. 

Of course they are. People on Salon (FB) complain about everything.

I think this is a pretty good spot for a ramp (never thought of that location before). It would add parking options for the north division and and Fulton/Jefferson areas.  

The downside would be no chance of future growth for the Library, but I would imagine technology is allowing libraries to do more with less space. 

Joe

[mgreven]

I found four proposals in a packet online.  Some include housing, ground floor retail or park space.  I'm glad they're think more mixed use but some of these are more 
"interesting" than others.  

Here's a link if you want the whole packet... http://grandrapidscitymi.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=4&ID=10951&MeetingID=3978

[GR_Urbanist]

I absolutely love that location for a ramp. Between CC, Civic, St. Celia, and the library, this will absolutely relive a major parking crunch. One level underground, 2-3 on top of that.

And this can give a boost to expanding the library (it seems a bit cramped, and it has been almost 20 years since the renovation) by building around the ramp or on top of it. It is a little embarrassing when GVSU's library looks more modern and spacious than the main library for the 2nd largest city in the state.

 

As for the renderings above? The big plaza out front scheme isnt going to fly. You cant fit a ramp and those buildings on the site when you ate up half of it for grass or concrete. So none of these could ever be what they present.

Edited December 9, 2017 by GR_Urbanist