Parking problem downtown - too much of it? Not enough?

[joeDowntown]

Wow, I’m pleasantly surprised with the renderings.  I liked the mixed use, green space, etc. 

Im also hoping that eventually, this will spur development on the church parking lot along Fulton. With a ramp so close, maybe the church could be convinced to give up that prime space. 

I’m impressed. 

Joe

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Wow, I’m pleasantly surprised with the renderings.  I liked the mixed use, green space, etc. 

Im also hoping that eventually, this will spur development on the church parking lot along Fulton. With a ramp so close, maybe the church could be convinced to give up that prime space. 

I’m impressed. 

Joe

Wow, those are cool! They've apparently been working on this idea for a while. 

[GRDadof3]

On 12/9/2017 at 10:38 AM, mgreven said:

I found four proposals in a packet online.  Some include housing, ground floor retail or park space.  I'm glad they're think more mixed use but some of these are more 
"interesting" than others.  

Here's a link if you want the whole packet... http://grandrapidscitymi.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=4&ID=10951&MeetingID=3978

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I added in the additional details for each plan. This is really cool actually. 

 

[Pattmost20]

2 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

 

 

I added in the additional details for each plan. This is really cool actually. 

 

I like most of these designs. I feel this is the right way to do parking in the Downtown core, integrated with retail, residential, and office space, to the point where the parking structure is hidden from street view.

[x99]

And who is a ramp in this location supposed to serve?  It does exactly nothing to relieve stress on CBD.   The talk of the ramp next to the County building on Ionia is far more interesting.  But, then there's this: "there have been no formal discussions between the municipalities as of yet."  So that's about par for the course.  A year or two into this parking fiasco, and the city still clearly does not really care about CBD all that much.  Recall that this is the same group of clowns whose last brilliant idea was trying to restrict how much parking you could build in a new project.  

Edited December 12, 2017 by x99

[GR_Urbanist]

Talking to a friend of mine that works for the library about this, she said that the lot is used by 2nd Park Church, St. Cecilia, CC, Fountain Street Church, and frequently fills to capacity by GRPL staff and patrons if there is a popular program at the library.  Art Prize and Festival also puts a lot of cars in the lot.

 

She says this is the first she has ever heard of these plans, but welcomes a ramp because the staff alone takes up 1/2 of the lot on any given day.

[arcturus]

Curious to know at what price point does Uber/Lyft become a serious alternative to pay for your own parking, or is the mindset more than just a financial decision because of a willingness to pay a premium for having the inherent flexibility of having your own car present.

[ctpgr34]

17 hours ago, x99 said:

And who is a ramp in this location supposed to serve?  It does exactly nothing to relieve stress on CBD.   The talk of the ramp next to the County building on Ionia is far more interesting.  But, then there's this: "there have been no formal discussions between the municipalities as of yet."  So that's about par for the course.  A year or two into this parking fiasco, and the city still clearly does not really care about CBD all that much.  Recall that this is the same group of clowns whose last brilliant idea was trying to restrict how much parking you could build in a new project.  

Can people not walk anymore?  From this lot it is a 7 minute walk to the Arena, 15 minute walk to the Ford Museum.  

[thebeerqueer]

1 hour ago, arcturus said:

Curious to know at what price point does Uber/Lyft become a serious alternative to pay for your own parking, or is the mindset more than just a financial decision because of a willingness to pay a premium for having the inherent flexibility of having your own car present.

It's already my go-to alternative for events DT. I don't mind walking 15 minutes for free parking (cheap dutchman here) but for the convenience, I can uber door-to-door for like $6  each way. I understand that's not an option for everyone but for people in the first ring neighborhoods, it can be an option. 

[GRDadof3]

29 minutes ago, thebeerqueer said:

It's already my go-to alternative for events DT. I don't mind walking 15 minutes for free parking (cheap dutchman here) but for the convenience, I can uber door-to-door for like $6  each way. I understand that's not an option for everyone but for people in the first ring neighborhoods, it can be an option. 

We Uber for events too but I wouldn't Uber if I worked downtown. 

[wingbert]

2 hours ago, ctpgr34 said:

Can people not walk anymore?  From this lot it is a 7 minute walk to the Arena, 15 minute walk to the Ford Museum.  

I can't help but think people in New York or Chicago would find this conversation hilarious.

[RegalTDP]

19 hours ago, x99 said:

And who is a ramp in this location supposed to serve?  It does exactly nothing to relieve stress on CBD.   The talk of the ramp next to the County building on Ionia is far more interesting.  But, then there's this: "there have been no formal discussions between the municipalities as of yet."  So that's about par for the course.  A year or two into this parking fiasco, and the city still clearly does not really care about CBD all that much.  Recall that this is the same group of clowns whose last brilliant idea was trying to restrict how much parking you could build in a new project.  

I know right?  It's so far away from the CBD.

No one could ever walk that far.

Literally nobody.  It's cruel to put a parking ramp so far from Downtown.

[ctpgr34]

28 minutes ago, wingbert said:

I can't help but think people in New York or Chicago would find this conversation hilarious.

Agree!!!!

[x99]

1 hour ago, RegalTDP said:

I know right?  It's so far away from the CBD.

No one could ever walk that far.

Literally nobody.  It's cruel to put a parking ramp so far from Downtown.

 

Rather disingenuous.  It is not the length of the walk, but rather the comparison of walking across a single indoor building with vast amounts of shopping inside of it to walking across an outdoor urban area.  It's also about .35 to .45 miles to the actual CBD.  The corner of Monroe Ctr. and Division is not CBD.  To make it fair, rip out all of the mall parking except for the west edge spaces by Macy's.  Now try to lease the former east edge Sears space.  Under that scenario, the east edge of the shopping mall becomes an-leasable ghost town.  This does nothing to deal with CBD's problems.  

And these comparisons to a first tier city like New York or Chicago are completely pointless.  For all practical purposes, this would be nothing more than an overpriced DASH lot.  An expansion of the current County ramp would be money well spent.  A ramp out by the library is just stupid unless it can be priced around $100 a month.  Which it can't be, because the construction cost estimates are shockingly high.

Edited December 12, 2017 by x99

[RegalTDP]

3 hours ago, x99 said:

Rather disingenuous.  It is not the length of the walk, but rather the comparison of walking across a single indoor building with vast amounts of shopping inside of it to walking across an outdoor urban area.  It's also about .35 to .45 miles to the actual CBD.  The corner of Monroe Ctr. and Division is not CBD.  To make it fair, rip out all of the mall parking except for the west edge spaces by Macy's.  Now try to lease the former east edge Sears space.  Under that scenario, the east edge of the shopping mall becomes an-leasable ghost town.  This does nothing to deal with CBD's problems.  

And these comparisons to a first tier city like New York or Chicago are completely pointless.  For all practical purposes, this would be nothing more than an overpriced DASH lot.  An expansion of the current County ramp would be money well spent.  A ramp out by the library is just stupid unless it can be priced around $100 a month.  Which it can't be, because the construction cost estimates are shockingly high.

All of your mental gymnastics obscure basic common sense and the personal experience of anyone who visits the library. I've walked to that spot from just about every other point within downtown and have never thought of it to be out of the way. I'm not sure what needlepoint half-acre you consider GR's CBD, but I'm certain I've walked to the library from that corner in my lifetime. It's the library, for Pete's sake - Downtown is so small and everything is so close to everything, this whole discussion just doesn't compute for me.

And you missed the point of that post mentioning NY for Chicago. It wasn't meant as a comparison, it was an observation that anyone in those cities would be amused that we're arguing over points within such a small area.

No one claimed this ramp is supposed to fix everything - it's just a piece of low-hanging fruit that could be plucked in service of the parking problem. If even some people who work closer to Division park there, that could clear up spaces in other ramps for people who work closer to Monroe, which isn't nothing. And you're absolutely right that the county ramp on Ionia is an even lower hanging fruit - that's why it's in the resolution. It's the commissioner's acknowledgement the city isn't taking action on it yet and should be. But even still, your reaction to everything has to be "Oh those idiots at City Hall are at it again." Whatevs.

[GRDadof3]

18 hours ago, wingbert said:

I can't help but think people in New York or Chicago would find this conversation hilarious.

Do people really care what they think?   In all seriousness, the issues you have to deal with in living in a big city pale in comparison to living here. They can keep it.

[GRDadof3]

13 hours ago, RegalTDP said:

All of your mental gymnastics obscure basic common sense and the personal experience of anyone who visits the library. I've walked to that spot from just about every other point within downtown and have never thought of it to be out of the way. I'm not sure what needlepoint half-acre you consider GR's CBD, but I'm certain I've walked to the library from that corner in my lifetime. It's the library, for Pete's sake - Downtown is so small and everything is so close to everything, this whole discussion just doesn't compute for me.

And you missed the point of that post mentioning NY for Chicago. It wasn't meant as a comparison, it was an observation that anyone in those cities would be amused that we're arguing over points within such a small area.

No one claimed this ramp is supposed to fix everything - it's just a piece of low-hanging fruit that could be plucked in service of the parking problem. If even some people who work closer to Division park there, that could clear up spaces in other ramps for people who work closer to Monroe, which isn't nothing. And you're absolutely right that the county ramp on Ionia is an even lower hanging fruit - that's why it's in the resolution. It's the commissioner's acknowledgement the city isn't taking action on it yet and should be. But even still, your reaction to everything has to be "Oh those idiots at City Hall are at it again." Whatevs.

I think x99 does raise some good points. This ramp would be "out of sight, out of mind" for a lot of people. You probably wouldn't get a lot of visitors to downtown to use it. But again, which a lot of people seem to be missing in this conversation both here and on Facebook, this is to add to the inventory of MONTHLY PERMIT PARKING where the severe shortage is and where employers are complaining about. This isn't really for people who work at downtown restaurants (they can't afford $200/month for a parking permit) or those going to ice skate at Rose Parks Circle. There is plenty of parking for those people still.

So in that vein, I think it wouldn't be that bad for someone working downtown at a law firm or financial services firm to park at this ramp and walk the few blocks to work every day. They would be prepared for the 6 month winters (boots, hats, warm clothes, etc..) 

[thebeerqueer]

Well, City Commissioners are split on this decision: http://woodtv.com/2017/12/12/resolution-for-downtown-grand-rapids-parking-fails/

[wingbert]

13 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Do people really care what they think?   In all seriousness, the issues you have to deal with in living in a big city pale in comparison to living here. They can keep it.

 

16 hours ago, RegalTDP said:

And you missed the point of that post mentioning NY or Chicago. It wasn't meant as a comparison, it was an observation that anyone in those cities would be amused that we're arguing over points within such a small area.

^^^ This.  Because I agree, it's not about caring what they think.  

[GRDadof3]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:55 AM, wingbert said:

 

^^^ This.  Because I agree, it's not about caring what they think.  

They might but then again, why does it matter. I can't believe the shit that people I know in big cities put up with. Break ins every week, car damage, insane neighbors, late trains and buses all the time, broken bottles on their front porches and lawns, constant police presence. They might die to think that life can be so good that walking 2 blocks is a big deal. 

[wingbert]

41 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

They might die to think that life can be so good that walking 2 blocks is a big deal. 

Exactly.  In other words, they might find this conversation hilarious.

[mpchicago]

This conversation is hilarious.    Thousands of people who work and live in downtown Chicago, walk from their train, on one side of the Loop to the other.  From their apartment or condo in the West Loop or River North, into the Loop, every day.  In many cases, we are talking at least a mile.... one way.   Don't get me wrong, there are many who also Uber/Lift/Cab too, but it's very common to walk long distances to get to the train or lunch, etc.   Even in the winter, unless it's unbearably cold, but even then people still walk.   

A Library ramp is close enough to the CBD to work for most CBD employees or visitors.  This isn't your Grandma's Grand Rapids anymore.  Think outside the box a little.

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, mpchicago said:

This conversation is hilarious.    Thousands of people who work and live in downtown Chicago, walk from their train, on one side of the Loop to the other.  From their apartment or condo in the West Loop or River North, into the Loop, every day.  In many cases, we are talking at least a mile.... one way.   Don't get me wrong, there are many who also Uber/Lift/Cab too, but it's very common to walk long distances to get to the train or lunch, etc.   Even in the winter, unless it's unbearably cold, but even then people still walk.   

A Library ramp is close enough to the CBD to work for most CBD employees or visitors.  This isn't your Grandma's Grand Rapids anymore.  Think outside the box a little.

Here's an idea, let's pretend this isn't Chicago. I think pretending to be something it isnt is what got the city in this mess in the first place.

[ctpgr34]

17 hours ago, mpchicago said:

This conversation is hilarious.    Thousands of people who work and live in downtown Chicago, walk from their train, on one side of the Loop to the other.  From their apartment or condo in the West Loop or River North, into the Loop, every day.  In many cases, we are talking at least a mile.... one way.   Don't get me wrong, there are many who also Uber/Lift/Cab too, but it's very common to walk long distances to get to the train or lunch, etc.   Even in the winter, unless it's unbearably cold, but even then people still walk.   

A Library ramp is close enough to the CBD to work for most CBD employees or visitors.  This isn't your Grandma's Grand Rapids anymore.  Think outside the box a little.

Yes, stop posting your thoughts

[joeDowntown]

13 hours ago, ctpgr34 said:

Yes, stop posting your thoughts

I hope that was a joke? 

Joe