Mag Lev to Atlanta

[dubbled]

Your arguments are simplistic and devoid of merit. Who do you think builds the road systems? They are subsidized just as heavily as any other form of transportation that graces this world of ours. If you want real "individual freedom", remove all subsidies of any kind on transport and give private rail operators a fighting chance of competing with private road builders. One will make money through the sale of tickets to pedestrians, and the other will make money by taking tolls from motorists. That's a description of the capitalism you claim to support. Trains are unprofitable because they are competing against the Federal Government, not because they are competing with Ford or GM. I say-uh, I say-uh that's a Nice Boy, but he doesn't listen to a word you say.

You rant about freedom and personal liberties--but you are really just a motorized socialist who wants the government to pave your paths through tax and spend politics, dispersing our Republic's dollars into the countryside for the benefit of only those Americans who want and/or are able to own and operate a car.

You need to back up and take a look at the big picture before you start trying to describe it--much less argue for change within it.

There you have it! Thanks, Nashvillwill! Automobile ownership should be a luxury, not a necessity...not a prerequisite for participation in civic life...period.

[Black and White]

Thank you, Metro.M!

[NewTowner]

Nashville has a premiere mass transit system which includes busses, paratransit, commuter train and express buses. While the majority of the service concentrates on the urban Nashville area, there is also service to/from Murfreesboro, Hendersonville, Lebanon, Mount Juliet, etc. Maybe it is not the facy there is no service but you are not aware of the great services available to you. There may not be a subway but sometimes it's better stay above ground and enjoy the view! Give NMTA a call and see what they have to offer.

[Black and White]

This discussion hasn't been about favorites, though...except for Black 'n' White. It's been about freedom.

[Jeeper12]

The strength of your argument is only derived by the protection granted to you by the forum administrators.

If you would like to secure the assurance of the administrators that I will not be banned for expressing my opinion, I would be glad to continue this discussion here or in the Coffee House.

[Black and White]

I vote for the coffee house.

[elguapo731]

I vote for the coffee house.

Black & White, on occassion you've offered some interesting perspectives worthy of some amount of discussion. However, too often you are completely unwilling to recognize and address weaknesses in your logic to the point that IMO you come across as overzealous (and often annoying) in your unbridled pursuit of an ideology. Strong opinions and deeply held beliefs are wonderful but when advanced ad infinitum to the exclusion of all evidence to the contrary, such positions can become tiresome to the rest of us.

Don't mistake this as an appeal for you not to post at UP. As I said, I think you often add a unique, if not controversial color to the debate. But I'll bet you'd enjoy your time posting here more if you substituted your censorship worries with a more healthy sense of give and take with other forumers.

[Jeeper12]

Me too but obviosly Mr. Towner isn't capable of defending his positions on his own.

I accept weak logic only where that logic exists. I don't go along to get along. That sort of thinking is what led societies to believe blacks were less than human, unborn children were tissue masses, Jews were rats and cars caused global warming.

[Black and White]

Like I said, Coffee House.............

[nashvillwill]

Sooooooooo. Back on subject.

Here are some pictures from the test track in Powder Springs, Georgia.

from AmericanMagLev.com

The track site

The Stock

Construction

it will be 2000 ft. long, and the first functional MagLev in the U.S.

[nashvol85]

Pardon me, but could you be so kind as to show some evidence on how high speed rail lines cause sprawl-like growth? Your argument involving "streetcar suburbs" or subways can't possibly apply to this type of thing. There is a huge difference: streetcars, buses, and subways/light rails are for local commuter traffic and they have many stops within a community. A MagLev or high speed rail is for regional transportation and would only have a few stops along the whole line. A handful of stations between Nashville and Atlanta won't cause sprawl growth. If there were stations every 5-10 miles, wouldn't it kind of defeat the purpose of having a high speed connection to Atlanta?

On the subject of the rail connection: Although I think it would be really nice to have a high speed rail line to Chattanooga and Atlanta, I don't see this as being feasible at all. It will cost far too much (especially to build over Monteagle Mountain) and I don't know if it would really catch on with travelers that well. I think that it would be a very positive thing for business, but the amount it would cost to build and maintain would most likely eclipse the economic impact.

[Black and White]

Pardon me, but could you be so kind as to show some evidence on how high speed rail lines cause sprawl-like growth?

[Black and White]

A while before this system was even plotted on a map, the LIE(Long Island Expressway) was constructed.

[Kheldane]

Roads should be subsidized because that is the form of transportation the citizenry prefers. Start your own train system if you want it so badly. Make your train compete in the market and see how quickly you file for Chapter 11 protection.

[larry2372]

Sooooooooo. Back on subject.

Here are some pictures from the test track in Powder Springs, Georgia.

from AmericanMagLev.com

The track site

The Stock

Construction

it will be 2000 ft. long, and the first functional MagLev in the U.S.

[larry2372]

Sorry for all those American Maglev fans out there, but AMT has a pretty shabby track record in the USA. There are more solid U.S. maglev systems under development in California (General Atomics), Massachusetts (MagneMotion, MagPlane) and New York (Maglev 2000). The "Innovative Transportation Technologies" Website tracks them all.

[Kheldane]

Kheldane: as far as your question about Libertarianism goes...I don't buy into all of it... That said, I do believe that we should either 1) fund alternative forms of transport at a level comparable to the amount we subsidize automobile infrastructure for the sake of our quality-of-life and cultural survival, or 2) stop funding all forms of transportation infrastructure and let the entrepeneuers battle it out. Libertarians would prefer Number 2, probably over anything else. I would prefer Number 1. Either would be better than continuing to run our current system at its current numbers.

[Black and White]

If you accept government funded roads as just, then you are a socialist.

[atlrvr]

Trains are not profitable because nobody wants to ride them if they have a choice between trains and cars. Why is so hard to look at history and see that for yourself?

[atlrvr]

First of all the highway system is not "subsidize" through tax revenue. It is "funded" through tax revenue.

---

If Mr. Towner wanted to start his own commuter train he could fund it the way highways are funded and make an agreement with the government to add a tax to the train ticket to pay for the rail system.

[frankliner]

Pardon me, but could you be so kind as to show some evidence on how high speed rail lines cause sprawl-like growth? Your argument involving "streetcar suburbs" or subways can't possibly apply to this type of thing. There is a huge difference: streetcars, buses, and subways/light rails are for local commuter traffic and they have many stops within a community. A MagLev or high speed rail is for regional transportation and would only have a few stops along the whole line. A handful of stations between Nashville and Atlanta won't cause sprawl growth. If there were stations every 5-10 miles, wouldn't it kind of defeat the purpose of having a high speed connection to Atlanta?

[G-townTN]

Europe is a good example of how the train system is a success. It works because there is an extensive map of railroad tracks that goeverywhere. It is very easy to move from city to city using the different grades/levels of tracks. The U.S. doesn't have such an extensive rail network. Amtrak runs a line between new orleans, memphis, st. louis, and Chicago. It takes a little less than 6 hours to drive from memphis to new orleans and 8 hours to take the train. For this reason more people are prone to use the interstate system because it is more efficient for them to just drive.

As a side note, the funding from the gas tax flowing into the tennessee department of transportation is increasing maybe at a rate of 3 to 4%. The amount of construction costs are growing at a much higher rate. Due to the gap in funding and construction cost TDOT is looking into for-profit roads. I am very interested in seeing how this pans out. If this comes to pass, it could very much pave the way for an extensive rail system.

[Black and White]

No it's not. Your one anecdotal experience and self imposed myopic "logic" does not trump years of empirical evidence and statistical fact.

Good for you and the proximity of your job to the train station. Does the entire city of Boston work and live where you do? What happens if your company folds and you no longer work there. Are you going to choose your next job based on its proximity to a rail stop? Are you going to move your residence so as to be closer to a rail that stop that is close to another office? If I was your boss I'd cut your salary if I knew you were limited in your employment opportunities by the fact that you have to work close to a commuter rail line.

Please don't misrepresent my logic. If a train goes from Lebanon to Nashville and more people drive than ride the train then I say that the driving is the more popular option and very few (in comparison to drivers) want to ride the train.

Oh, and don't just take my word as evidence. If you really want to read some contemporary planning thought read read this http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId...FTOKEN=27675222 nad just about anything else you care to read on that site.

[nashvol85]

Isn't that a little like assuming that the interstate highway system wouldn't cause sprawl like growth?

Here is a map of a train sytem that fostered sprawl. I doubt the majority of people who take the LIRR walk to the station.

[monsoon]

No it's not. Your one anecdotal experience and self imposed myopic "logic" does not trump years of empirical evidence and statistical fact.