3 Developers Propose Major Project in Bloomfield

[Recchia]

By who's standards? Not mine! I dont' think it's a mess at all. Sorry. Insults are insults. I could say really nasty things about Hartford and just say "hey, just pointing out what's wrong with it" and you and others would jump all over my comments.

I don't own an SUV. In fact, I'm willing to bet my car is smaller than yours! It's got a 1.8 liter engine and weighs just 1900lbs. I'm interested in the Smart when it arrives as well. I do have a work truck, but that's for a purpose. I also ride a motorcycle whenever I can. There goes that arguement.

I do like my yard - yes. I enjoy the countryside. Tar and feather me.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have no problem with shopping areas in Hartford. Never have. I love the city. BUT you all do nothing but HATE anything that is not built inside of Hartford. We are a region, get over it for crying out loud!

You don't have to hate or tear something else down to make your point. If anything it weakens it. If that doesnt' make sense, I don't know what to tell you.

[MadVlad]

And mikel, calling him a redneck is really not needed. You have some really good points so don't make everyone want to ignore you by saying stupid immature things like that.

[robm324]

Wow....quite a conversation, and I like the debate.

I am a conservative in many respects, and I support the individual's right to choose where they want to live, what they want to drive, etc. However, I agree with the statements that development has followed a lot of places where government has made it cheap for people to live and do business. Plus, it is simply not smart and sustainable growth when huge lots take up more and more of the countryside and eat away at more pristine forests. Smart growth is growth that starts in the city and town centers and moves steadily outward.

I grew up in South Windsor, and I am disgusted by the way that town is set up. I acknowledge that this is my opinion, and I am not looking to force this opinion on anyone else. S.W. is a perfect example of uncontrolled sprawl, because there is no "town center" to speak of and just square mile after square mile of cookie cutter properties. Its just my opinion that these types of towns have no character. But I guess that is why I am a regular contributor to a site like "Urban Planet".

[JimSawhill]

Why would anyone TRAVEL to the Buckland area, when it's all generic chain stores that are available nearly everywhere? That area is completely disgusting. I will love seeing it deserted when gas prices go up.

[JimSawhill]

The bottom line is that places like Buckland are successful because 90% of Americans are lazy. Sitting in traffic for hours is more desirable to most people than having to lug shopping bags down a street a half mile to their home (healthy people, nonetheless). I think it's a shame.

People who DO like to window shop should at least have the option of doing so, but most cities offer their residents suburban style shopping centers or boutique shopping in a downtown. Why should people who do like to walk around their downtowns be forced to get their basic goods at sprawling messes like Buckland? Just like a lot of people like to drive to each store, some like to walk to each.

[JimSawhill]

Thank you.

I grew up in a suburb. I shopped at malls, which my folks had to drive me to. I went to gigantic cinemamegamovieplexes, which my folks had to drive me to. I even went to parks ... which my folks had to drive me to. Then I went to college and I got to walk everywhere. I was a fat kid in high school--not surprising these days--and in my first year I shed 30 pounds, even drinking beer.

Now I live in Hartford, which I love, and I get to walk to the park, walk to my local pub, and walk to my CVS... but that's it. I have to drive to Westfarms and Buckland and Evergreen Walk (surprise surprise, I've been there) for everything else, and I'd like to choose not to, but I can't. And part of the reason I can't is that suburbia has been the benficiary of zoning welfare since World War II. So don't wag your finger at me and tell me its the market place because that is a very niave idea. It's the market place accomodating the geography of government policy, accomodating the will of special interests.

Incidentally, about Evergreen Walk, while it's delightful that it is outside it is (1) not nearly as charming as downtown Hartford and (2) inconvenient because, despite living in a very walkable city, I have to drive to it, including waiting in traffic to get off the bloody highway. I'd like to know what the market place would think of suburbs and roads if we paid the actual cost of gas, rather than having had governent subsidize the crap out of the oil industry and ignore the environmental impact of our consumption.

And yes, I suppose I am an elitist for thinking I know what people want better than they know themselves, except that if you study this topic (and many others) you can see how people are stripped of choice and then delivered one thing in different packaging and told they get to choose! The point I an those who agree with me are making is that there is, in fact, an absence of choice. I used to think otherwise, but as the years went by it became increasingly difficult to ignore reality. I love America, and I'd travel Europe criticizing them no-end, except that deep down inside I secretly envied their sense of fairness and their way of life. Choice? I can eat horse in Italy, but not in America. I can drink absynthe there too, but not here. I can hear uncensored lyrics on the radio in the UK, but not in the States. I can get raw milk cheese from a roadside stand in Scotland, but not in Connecticut. We're 280 million-strong, but we all eat at the same six restaurants, shop at the same 6 grocery stores and the same six department stores and listen to radio stations that play the same 20 songs. You really think that's the market place at work?

[JimSawhill]

I'm starting to consider suburbs parasites sucking off the host. Every time I read about developments in places like Bloomfield and Manchester, I hear a giant sucking sound, and it's coming from Downtown Hartford.....

[JimSawhill]

I appreciate your interest in the smart.

We'd all be heroes if we quit using petroleum, though.

[JimSawhill]

Actually I drive a 1.8 liter engine plastic Saturn that gets 36mpg and I pretty much only use it to get to work and back and walk everywhere else. I think I've been making my points without tearing anything down actually.

You say you enjoy the countryside, then why do you also support sprawling developments that threaten to tear that countryside down? And nobody is hating anything built outside of Hartford. We are DISLIKING developments that are inefficient and threaten your beloved countryside, promote more automobile usage and are inaccessible to those without cars.

And mikel, calling him a redneck is really not needed. You have some really good points so don't make everyone want to ignore you by saying stupid immature things like that.

[MadVlad]

MadVlad:

Now, while I do agree with you in principal, I have to say that Hartford didn't help itself. DT Hartford was the mecca of Connecticut's shoppers, but then when taxes were raised, citizens started to move away from Hartford (and other cities -- not just Hartford), then DT stores needed to go to where the people are -- suburbs.

Hartford -- or ANY core city -- is not blameless in this story. Hartford is now trying to get people to move in, so soon you might see new stores in Hartford. Hartford needs to encourage entrepenuers to open businesses of all kinds with reductions in taxes.

JimS

[Whaler0718]

Whaler:

Why not take a bus to Buckland? I mean you can take the bus out there. Then you don't have to feel lousy about DRIVING to Buckland.

JimS

[JayHass]

Can I really take a bus from one strip mall to the next? And if I could, am I--or anybody else who can afford a car--going to wait ten minutes in front of each store?! If Buckland were a walkable center, well, then it would be Hartford.

[Whaler0718]

Dare I say sometimes Hartford is less walkable with all the crazy's flying around downtown 50mph at night with booming stereos blowing lights and driving like crackheads...

[JayHass]

That never happens in Manchester, I'm sure.

[dapapabear2]

Not really - we don't have a very large ghetto culture around here.

[JayHass]

Now there's an ign'ant statement.

[malikr65]

What exactly is a "ghetto" culture?

[Lowerdeck]

The stereotype record executives like to shovel on black youth, and then moreso impresses the whites.

Listen to Hot 93.7 for more. For the women, Power 104.1.

[Recchia]

And BTW, again - Buckland HAS walkable areas if you want to do that. Some of you should actually go to Evergreen Walk before making a comment.

[HartfordTycoon]

I finally was able to look up Evergreen Walk and see what it's like. This is considered walkable nowadays?

Okay, it's decent cause you can walk from store to store (I'll take that atleast), but can anyone actually walk TO the development from their neighborhood?

[GHartford]

I finally was able to look up Evergreen Walk and see what it's like. This is considered walkable nowadays?

Okay, it's decent cause you can walk from store to store (I'll take that atleast), but can anyone actually walk TO the development from their neighborhood?

[JayHass]

I finally was able to look up Evergreen Walk and see what it's like. This is considered walkable nowadays?

Okay, it's decent cause you can walk from store to store (I'll take that atleast), but can anyone actually walk TO the development from their neighborhood?

[Recchia]

Can you walk there from your neighborhood? Sure, if you want too. There are sidewalks on the roads. I wouldn't want to walk there...too far for me. I can walk to DT Manchester if I wanted to as well - but I don't feel like walking 3 miles just to get a pair of socks. I'll drive. Sorry.

[Whaler0718]

Nor should they have to walk 3 miles for socks. My understanding is that the magic number for planners is 1/4 mile. Evergreen Walk, as built, is nothing more than an outdoor mall. Granted, it's a lot better than big boxes, but it's no more "walkable" than the inside of West Farms or Buckland Hills. That, as Tycoon pointed out, isn't the point; the point is its proximity to residential. Too much density?! Density is the point! This is the property tax structure haunting us. It's not about traffic b/c there would actually be LESS of that if people could walk there. It isn't about infrastructure, since it's more efficien to connect residential when you've already got a commerical compenent. I'm not really sure it's about too many kids in the schools, either, since my guess is most of the folks in the condos would be single, but that's the only logical explanation for knocking this proposal down. That, or this incredible fear of suburbanites than anybody who doesn't live on an acre lot is from another planet. Regardless, however pretty you make a mall, a mall is still a mall, and a mall is not a town. Try, for instance, to protest something--sprawl, for instance--at Evergreen Walk, and watch how quickly you're escorted off the premises. Some lifestyle.

[HartfordTycoon]

Not allowing the residential portion is asinine on the part of South Windsor to say the least. These would undoubtedly be apartments/condos built for the type of people they would love to have move into town. Now those people will all be living at Blue Back Square when South Windsor could've had a head start in attracting them. Real smart move. I guess that's what happens when you try to build new urbanism in a cow town though......