Franklin Avenue Going Downhill?

[JayHass]

Is social mobility today as attainable as it was in previous generations? Is that really all it takes to be middle class?

[HartfordTycoon]

Yes.

Granted some will have to work much harder than others - but it's attainable for ALL. Period.

[Whaler0718]

So the society is to be blamed? It is interesting that many other immigrants and minorities have done well under the same system. In fact many blacks and Puerto Ricans have also done well under the current system. The American dream is alive and well. To be in the middle class, all you need is a marketable skill and a willingness to work hard.

[Whaler0718]

While I respect your liberal take on urban problems I don't agree with a lot of what you wrote. I wish I had more time today to reply in kind but I simply don't today and probably the next few days. I'm sorry.

In short, what I translate out of what you wrote is that it's, capitalism, the white middle class people and big business's fault for people throwing trash on the street and having other social problems. I can't subscribe to that. I simply can't.

[HartfordTycoon]

There is plenty of blame to go around.

Other immigrants and minorities either arrived before the current system (i.e., pre-World War II), and they're likely my grandparents and yours or they arrived after the race riots of the 1960s and are content because what they have here is better than what they had before. But I don't think it's fair to tell the black folks who reside in Hartford's Northeast neighborhood, in particular, that they should be happy because they, as black Americans, are actually "better off" than black Africans. A recent and interesting article in the Economist noted that in measuring "happiness," which some economists have set off to do, people are least happy when they are not well off as compared to their peers and are quite content when they are in the middle and upper middle of the pack. In other words, a black American may well be better off than a black African in objective terms, but he compares himself to a Greenwich hedge fund mogul, whereas a recent immigrant would still compare himself to those in the village he left behind.

Many blacks and Puerto Ricans have done well for themselves, and I'm the first one to argue that the leadership of the black community has done blacks a grave disservice by perpetuating their victimhood rather than taking advantage of the opportunities that do exist. The sad fact of the matter, however, is that we--by we I do mean society--has institutionalized an oppressive class (which ultimately means race even if we don't intend it to) based culture that divides society into winners and losers. And when you create a geography that packs all the losers together in one place (the city), well, you're not setting them up to win. Some will overcome their circumstances, and God bless them for it, but shouldn't we at least lend a hand. Isn't it in our best interests to do so?

[jcrc]

Is social mobility today as attainable as it was in previous generations? Is that really all it takes to be middle class?

[HartfordTycoon]

My electrician is black, he owns his own company, he has a marketable skill, and he works hard, and he is middle class. My air condition/refrigerator repair guy is also black. His accent is so thick, I can barely understand him. But he owns his own company - with employees to boot. They most certainly did not go to college, but they finished trade schools, and have marketable skills. They are nice, hard working individuals, and they came from the same "problematic" neighborhood. My brother who didn't even finish high school. He got into all sorts of trouble with the law when he was younger. One day he woke up and he went to hair cutting school, then he worked in some of the top Beverly Hills hair places. He started in the bottom sweeping floor and washing hair, and worked his way to the top. He now has his own shop in Florida. He makes more money than your every day doctors and lawyers. He has a million dollar home, his kids go to the best private school in Florida. If this is not social mobility, I don't know what is.

[jcrc]

There is plenty of blame to go around.

Other immigrants and minorities either arrived before the current system (i.e., pre-World War II), and they're likely my grandparents and yours or they arrived after the race riots of the 1960s and are content because what they have here is better than what they had before. But I don't think it's fair to tell the black folks who reside in Hartford's Northeast neighborhood, in particular, that they should be happy because they, as black Americans, are actually "better off" than black Africans. A recent and interesting article in the Economist noted that in measuring "happiness," which some economists have set off to do, people are least happy when they are not well off as compared to their peers and are quite content when they are in the middle and upper middle of the pack. In other words, a black American may well be better off than a black African in objective terms, but he compares himself to a Greenwich hedge fund mogul, whereas a recent immigrant would still compare himself to those in the village he left behind.

Many blacks and Puerto Ricans have done well for themselves, and I'm the first one to argue that the leadership of the black community has done blacks a grave disservice by perpetuating their victimhood rather than taking advantage of the opportunities that do exist. The sad fact of the matter, however, is that we--by we I do mean society--has institutionalized an oppressive class (which ultimately means race even if we don't intend it to) based culture that divides society into winners and losers. And when you create a geography that packs all the losers together in one place (the city), well, you're not setting them up to win. Some will overcome their circumstances, and God bless them for it, but shouldn't we at least lend a hand. Isn't it in our best interests to do so?

[jcrc]

Great reply. I think there is still plenty of promise and opportunity in America. I came into the world upper middle class and would like to work my way up to super rich if possible. America is great because that's completely within the realm of what I can realistically strive for. Still, everywhere in America and across the world there are people who don't feel like these are realistic aspirations. Mostly due to what the society tells them is possible or the most likely scenario for them seems bleak. Everyone you mention is an entreprenuer. None of them decided or were afforded opportunities to work their way up in corporate America or blue collar work as an employee, most likely due to what educational options/environment were available and the scarcity of blue collar work in America today. I also believe the only way to make it is on your own, but this is not what is taught or instilled into people from youth. We are taught and trained to be employees and consumers, not owners and capitalists. If we could change this, we could change America for the better, but who would do all of the heavy lifting?

[Whaler0718]

Being upper middle class, let alone super rich, isn't a realistic aspiration for many Americans of any color, not because they don't work hard but because they didn't hit the genetic lottery. Trying out for American Idol does not, in my mind, constitute a stab at the American Dream anymore than buying a lotto ticket. The chances of one "working his way up the latter" so-to-speak are slim to none today. I find it interesting, for instance, when I hear people defend Wal-Mart because it empowers poor people buy selling them inexpensive products. Nobody ever stops to think that those folks need cheap things more than ever since they lost their job at the Main Street store Wal-Mart put out of business or at the local garment factory that was outsourced. Our view of the American economy is solely at the macro level, so we think things are great when hedge fund managers make all sorts of money b/c they build houses and buy cars--but the reality is that the highest paying jobs require fewer and fewer people to perform them. We can't all be CEOs ... but what's left besides that? We worked awfully hard to cut out the middle man, but nobody stopped to think about the fact that he might, in fact, be the middle man. So kudos to the independent electric contractor and plumber, but gone are the days of TV repairmen and the corner office supply store, the local grocer, the independent bookstore, and the independent pharmacist. Yes, the chain store is cheaper and has more selection, but wouldn't you prefer it if your neighbor had a job?

[HartfordTycoon]

Being upper middle class, let alone super rich, isn't a realistic aspiration for many Americans of any color, not because they don't work hard but because they didn't hit the genetic lottery. Trying out for American Idol does not, in my mind, constitute a stab at the American Dream anymore than buying a lotto ticket. The chances of one "working his way up the latter" so-to-speak are slim to none today. I find it interesting, for instance, when I hear people defend Wal-Mart because it empowers poor people buy selling them inexpensive products. Nobody ever stops to think that those folks need cheap things more than ever since they lost their job at the Main Street store Wal-Mart put out of business or at the local garment factory that was outsourced. Our view of the American economy is solely at the macro level, so we think things are great when hedge fund managers make all sorts of money b/c they build houses and buy cars--but the reality is that the highest paying jobs require fewer and fewer people to perform them. We can't all be CEOs ... but what's left besides that? We worked awfully hard to cut out the middle man, but nobody stopped to think about the fact that he might, in fact, be the middle man. So kudos to the independent electric contractor and plumber, but gone are the days of TV repairmen and the corner office supply store, the local grocer, the independent bookstore, and the independent pharmacist. Yes, the chain store is cheaper and has more selection, but wouldn't you prefer it if your neighbor had a job?

[blackstone]

That is really not correct. There are other groups that came after the 60s, Southeast Asian refugees for example. They cannot be in anyway better off the the worst of our society, yet in one generation they have done remarkably well. There are also those from Central America that came over during their civil wars. I think the Nicaraguans and El Salvadorians have also done reasonable well.

[HartfordTycoon]

the mexicans came to the northeast after the 60's. many (hundreds) have come to my town in the last 20 years. they are now known as some of the best construction men (and i don't mean unskilled) in the area. one guy i know came here 15 years ago, by himself, worked in kitchens fo 7 years while sleeping in unheated storage areas of various restaurants for a few years. he now owns 2 apartment buildings in town. others have opened a mexican restaurant, travel agency, groceries, hair and nails, diner, etc.. all opened in the last 5 years. like the asians, no one can convince them that they are supposed to fail. they work their asses off. and, there are neighborhoods that are heavily mexican. no gangs, no muggings, no racial tensions. its possible in this country.

[blink55184]

not on franklin ave, but I had my car broken into while at the webster theatre a little over a year ago

just sayin

[Whaler0718]

That is really not correct. There are other groups that came after the 60s, Southeast Asian refugees for example. They cannot be in anyway better off the the worst of our society, yet in one generation they have done remarkably well. There are also those from Central America that came over during their civil wars. I think the Nicaraguans and El Salvadorians have also done reasonable well.

[Luca Brasi]

I'm tired of excuses being made for individuals who lack basic personal responsibility. Its not the fault of society because you can't responsibly discard trash, not use foul language, resist the urge to rob someone because you need $20 and don't feel like getting a job, etc... There is a "I don't give a f***" culture that has grown out of the inner city that many young people view as cool and this is the problem. It is a cultural thing that is sold every day through television and music. It is a shame because the vast majority of people who live in the inner city ARE responsible hard working people who are looking for a better way of life. Its a few bad apples who ruin things for everyone, and they ruin it in a big way. I live in the Asylum Hill neighborhood and spend much of my time in the South End and I see it every day. Franklin Avenue was NOT the way it is now 15-20 years ago.

I know someone who owns an apartment building in the South Green neighborhood and they have a rat problem because tenants just throw trash out their windows instead of walking it to the dumpster.

[JayHass]

Being upper middle class, let alone super rich, isn't a realistic aspiration for many Americans of any color, not because they don't work hard but because they didn't hit the genetic lottery. Trying out for American Idol does not, in my mind, constitute a stab at the American Dream anymore than buying a lotto ticket. The chances of one "working his way up the latter" so-to-speak are slim to none today.

[JimSawhill]

Fair enough, but how did we get where we are? Where did those morals and family upbringing go? If we took one misbhaving 17 year-old kid in Hartford and traced his geneology, where would we find the breakdown and why? Statistically, chances are he's black or Puerto Rican. If the former, his ancestors probably migrated north to work in factories after cotton picking was mechanized. If Puerto Rican, they probably came to work on the tobacco farms. When either migration took place, did those families have morals? Did they pick up after themselves? I bet they did. What went wrong?

Well, for one, the industrial boom of the north went away as quickly as it appeared, and there weren't as many jobs as promised. Honest, hard-working black people were trying to put themselves in a better position and overcome generations of oppression; so a firestorm errupted in the 60s when there were no jobs but only plenty of racism, and riots killed whatever was left of our cities. Those who could afford to move out did--white people (utterly shocked at what was happening)--and those who couldn't stayed--black people. Zoning laws kept out minorites either expressly (don't sell to blacks) or implicitly (lot size must be 1 acre so the house price will be too high for anybody else).

Puerto Ricans came for the tobacco farms. We know what happened to them, and so an unskilled labor force populated the city. Did we give them opportunities, reeducate them, etc.? No, we wondered why they were here. I've heard some people suggest that there are too many illegal Puerto Rican immigrants. Interesting, considering they're American citizens. Again, middle and upper classes abandoned them.

And they did so not simply thanks to the "free market," whatever that is. But thanks to a conspiracy of government, oil, and auto manufacturers and house builders. You do realize that GM and Standard Oil formed subsidiaries to buy nearly all of the trolley companies in America, only to run them into the ground, pave over their tracks, and promote the automobile. Having completely isolated impoverished and uneducated classes, we well-to-do whites now stare in bewilderment at the inner city: why do they have no pride in their homes? Why do they kill each other? Wasn't affirmative action supposed to cure this? Good thing I moved out when I could.

But try living in that kids shoes for a day. Absent integration--among minorities and classes--there's no role model. The stresses of joblessness and despair spiraled into violence and drug addiction years ago, well before this kid was ever born. He's lucky if he knows his father. He's seen his friends get killed. He got arrested for using pot once, so he can't get a job.

So little wonder it's so hard to get it through his thick skull that tossing trash on the street will discourage young professionals from settling downtown, which will mean the city will continue its downward spiral, which will mean fewer job prospects and more crime. If only he'd put his trash in the bin, everything would be ok.

There is no more American dream. The American dream--rugged indiviualism--works when their are abundant resources. But when those resources are enjoyed by a cadre of have-mosts, the have-nots do not see work as their ticket out. That's probably because you and I know that it's not. You might think they should accept their station in life and simply work and live at peace because that's the morally acceptable thing to do, but we have no national morality. Government and executives simply run a different racket, a legal one, but a no-more moral one. So why not run drugs while you can.

As they say, you get rich or die trying.

I am not saying we should forgive a lack of personal responsibility, but rather that we already have waived goodbye to it at a national level. Those with means don't commit (as many) crimes or throw their trash out the window. When they act w/out a moral compass they do things like make billions off of rap lyrics that debase women and promote violence (selling "street culture" to pent-up white kids so they can get their angst out). They make sup-prime loans to poor people, who have no chance of paying them back, convert the loan into a marketable security, and take their profits while they can. They build a big-box store with a useful life of two decades, sell it and move on. When they become adicts or act violently they ask for forgiveness and get treatment.

When my hypothetical kid "acts up" the consequences are dire, and they inform our view of "Hartford's problems."

As though that kid is any more culpable than you or me. No, neither you or I, individually, created this problem, but neither did he. So why is this his problem and not ours? If a rational market actually existed, we would realize that creating a real, lasting solution to our cities' problems would be more efficient and make economic sense in the long run.

[JimSawhill]

I'm not really that liberal. I'm a registered Republican, and I believe in capitalism and market-based solutions. I'm also a proud member of the white middle class. But when you look at history, you realize that (1) the free market has been manipulated out of existence, so to talk about it like it's real and can solve our problems is to stick our head in the sand and ignore reality; (2) big business is fine; corruption is not; don't forget that trusts are a natural result of a capitalist economy, but we don't allow them because they're "anti-competitive" and destroy the very "free market" that created them; (3) the white middle class isn't culpable insofar as it didn't actually wish for this to happen and it's a victim of corruption to the extent it has bought into the false premise that one may "choose" anything, from music to suburbia; its victimization is different, however, because it has resulted in over-consumption and over-stimulation as opposed to deprivation; it also has had to foot the bill for maintaining status quo, which is a lot more expensive over the long run than fixing the problem.

[drc72]

So the society is to be blamed? It is interesting that many other immigrants and minorities have done well under the same system. In fact many blacks and Puerto Ricans have also done well under the current system. The American dream is alive and well. To be in the middle class, all you need is a marketable skill and a willingness to work hard.

[JimSawhill]

Being upper middle class, let alone super rich, isn't a realistic aspiration for many Americans of any color, not because they don't work hard but because they didn't hit the genetic lottery. Trying out for American Idol does not, in my mind, constitute a stab at the American Dream anymore than buying a lotto ticket. The chances of one "working his way up the latter" so-to-speak are slim to none today. I find it interesting, for instance, when I hear people defend Wal-Mart because it empowers poor people buy selling them inexpensive products. Nobody ever stops to think that those folks need cheap things more than ever since they lost their job at the Main Street store Wal-Mart put out of business or at the local garment factory that was outsourced. Our view of the American economy is solely at the macro level, so we think things are great when hedge fund managers make all sorts of money b/c they build houses and buy cars--but the reality is that the highest paying jobs require fewer and fewer people to perform them. We can't all be CEOs ... but what's left besides that? We worked awfully hard to cut out the middle man, but nobody stopped to think about the fact that he might, in fact, be the middle man. So kudos to the independent electric contractor and plumber, but gone are the days of TV repairmen and the corner office supply store, the local grocer, the independent bookstore, and the independent pharmacist. Yes, the chain store is cheaper and has more selection, but wouldn't you prefer it if your neighbor had a job?

[drc72]

Once again, I am pretty much in agreement. However, I would say that it is a bit of a mischaractorization that most black leaders advocate a sense of victimhood within the black community. It's more of a remembering where we came from and the wrong that has been done. Blacks have no obligation or reason to let the US Government and Society off the hook for the roles they played in our slavery and oppression. There are concrete examples of those who became rich and powerful under a racist system who have transferred that wealth and power to their descendants. Just look at the story of Thurmonds and Sharptons. Strom Thurmond was born rich and stayed that way. Al Sharpton, descended from his family's slaves started poor and became rich. The American dream that his ancestors were not allowed. These problems of poverty and lack of education were not entirely self imposed and it's not wrong for us to remind this country of that from time to time.

[ctman]

how about spend less than what you make? that is the real way to get ahead. it takes so much pressure off of your day to day life. it amazes me when i hear people at work - making very comfortable salaries - struggling to pay their bills. there is no need to go out and buy a new car because you have and extra $600/mo for payments, nor is there the need to go out and spend $500 on a handbag because you have $500 left on your credit card limit. i go out and see people flashing all sorts of cash and living large on friday nights, only to be broke again on saturday mornings, freaking amazing. most immigrants that make something of themselves follow the mantra of spending less than you make and to invest wisely, not in $2400 rims on a 1987 accord and a $350 jacket with new sneakers every weak. thats how you end up siphoning off my tax dollars.

[Recchia]

how about spend less than what you make? that is the real way to get ahead. it takes so much pressure off of your day to day life. it amazes me when i hear people at work - making very comfortable salaries - struggling to pay their bills. there is no need to go out and buy a new car because you have and extra $600/mo for payments, nor is there the need to go out and spend $500 on a handbag because you have $500 left on your credit card limit. i go out and see people flashing all sorts of cash and living large on friday nights, only to be broke again on saturday mornings, freaking amazing. most immigrants that make something of themselves follow the mantra of spending less than you make and to invest wisely, not in $2400 rims on a 1987 accord and a $350 jacket with new sneakers every weak. thats how you end up siphoning off my tax dollars.

[HartfordTycoon]

Dude slavery is old news and shouldn't be used as an excuse for more government handouts. GET IT OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!