Franklin Avenue Going Downhill?

[drc72]

Not that I want this to turn into a debate on Affirmative Action, however the idea of Affirmative Action is not to give less qualified minority persons a job in employment decisions over more qualified white candidates, it's more like with all things being equal for two candidates deciding to go with someone who will increase diversity in your workplace.

[Whaler0718]

People move to the suburb because they want to, and they have the means to do so, with or without government subsidies. I am not sure by taking away funding for highway, disallowing local zoning prerogatives and changing the drug laws to name a few of the road blocks you mentioned, inner city poor minorities will be able rid themselves of poverty.

[Bill Mocarsky]

Whaler0718,

I always enjoy your posts. Great insight.

What would the books on 20th century American history look like 50 or so years from now?

[Whaler0718]

Whaler0718,

I always enjoy your posts. Great insight.

What would the books on 20th century American history look like 50 or so years from now?

[jcrc]

History doesn't support your contention. People moved out of cities b/c the government made it the only rational financial decision for them. FHA loans were available only for single-family homes with certain plot sizes that could only be found in suburbs. Meanwhile, the oil and automobile industry conspired (they actually were found guilty of this in court) to rip up all forms of intra and intercity mass transportation at the same time that the government built the interestate system. Local governments think they make their own zoning regulations, but have you ever noticed that they're practically identical? That's because they were devloped by engineers (not planners) and adopted by the home-building and financing industries. Thus, a city with zoning out of step with these paramaters would discourage development because developers have been told by their financial backers that they can do it only one way.

Now, my favorite part is that the engineers got it wrong in a number of ways. For example, they thought that to make roads safer you should make them wider and make intersections larger and less complex. Actually, the stats show that more complicated intersections are often safer b/c drivers pay attention. Note that in Sweden accidents dropped by 17% when the country switched (over night) from left to right-hand driving.

Unfortunately, we're now trapped b/c people do not--understandably--want the value of their crappy raised ranches to go down in value, so we we're paralyzed and unable to rethink the way we've done everything. Nobody on P&Z will vote for a more viable method of development b/c of the risk of success. They know that they're invested in the status quo and approving a threat to that type of existence could hurt them.

I once towed the free market line like it was my job. But people only make rational choices at the micro level. I'm hungry, therefore I will eat. Maybe even, I'm hungry today, but I know I'll be hungry tomorrow, too, so I'll save some for then. But not, I'm hungry today, and I know I'll be hungry ten years from now so I better plan accordingly. Nope. Especially not in politics, when there's an election coming up. Smart decisions would require short-term pain. That's just not acceptable. It's a shame, worsened by those who run around pretending that they have choice! Yes, you may choose between door number 1 and door number 2, but if you choose door number 2 you'll get an electric shock. Ok, I choose door number 1. Yes, that's the free market alright.

[Whaler0718]

Very interesting. Pretty good insight, but I think with or without these factors we will still have poor in the same condition as we have today. Let's look across the ocean at Europe; there is no oil and auto conspiracy, they have well developed intra and intercity mass transportation, and they have better social welfare system from the poor and or working class's perspective. Do the poor and the rich live as neighbors? Nope. Is the poverty line separated by race? Sometimes. Do the poor neighborhoods have the same rotten environment? You bet. Do they have more opportunity than the poor in the US? Heck no.

Free market is about choice. With choice comes planning and responsibility. It doesn't matter if it is micro or macro, long term or short term, choose wisely you will be rewarded, choose poorly, you will suffer. Life is not a boolean, if you don't like door number 1 or door number 2, then take another door. Or you can let someone else do the choosing for you, if you ask me that is what lowest common denominator is all about.

[JimSawhill]

Dude I never had to get over because I was never part of it, nor were other members here on this board. I'm not disputing the fact that slavery was horrible, because it certainly it was. But it should not be used as an excuse to avoid personal responseability. Plus my ancestors were not even part of the slave trade, so why should I have to pay? The people in the burbs are no exception either......

[HartfordTycoon]

But in Europe, fewer people fall through the cracks. Check the murder rate.

[JimSawhill]

Very well put. Oviously they are doing something better.

ALL of my American ancestors were slaves. I don't have to look to find certain instances of injustice. It was omnipresent and brutal. Pretty much all of my ancestors in America were either slaves or their sexually abusive white masters.

[HartfordTycoon]

Tycoon:

I know what you are saying, but some whites didn't willingly come either. Whites were slaves, too. (Matter of fact, Slavics is the root of the word slave. The Greeks used the Slavics as slaves.)

Tycoon, slavery was one of the worst issue that the USA was involved in. I wish slavery would not be with us today, but still slavery is still in use.

JimS

[jcrc]

Rich and poor do often live as neighbors in Europe. Racial issues are prominent in Europe, granted, especially in France. But you might note that France has, more than any other European country, US-like suburbs. The difference is that the poor have been relegated to them, not to the urban core, but the result is the same. Witness the race riots of a couple years ago. I'm not sure poor in America have more opportunity. It's all about odds, just like the lotto. Would you prefer to play a game with odds of 1 in 10 that pays $100k or one with odds of 1 in 1000 that pays $1 million? The potential upside in America is obviously greater. (E.g., LeBron James) But in Europe, fewer people fall through the cracks. Check the murder rate.

[drc72]

drc:

One of my ancestors was in indentered servant. Another came here whem Mussolini had a price on his head. (He spoke out against Mussolini in the 1920s, also he needed to get out of his town since he got the mayor's wife pregant. Mayor was HIS BROTHER! ).

JimS