Raleigh "R-Line" Downtown Circulator

[ChiefJoJo]

I don't see the new council voting against this, but is there anything we can do to show support? Email? Petition? Something else? Should it be geared toward CAT or the counicl? I think this would be a good "advocacy" project for this board, and we can try to promote it via other blogs, groups, etc.

Maybe the amount of money involved needs council approval? I guess there is nothing that needs to be done other than posting signs at the stops and buying the buses.

It is odd that the media sometimes deems rumors about projects newsworthy while other projects get little to no coverage.

I guess it isn't a story until something is on the city council's agenda to approve buying the buses, but why is this a city council decision and not part of CAT operations? Council gets involved sometimes, like when the shopping centers decided they didn't want buses on their properties. But CAT is better suited to "micromanage" service, routes, service, etc. vs. the council.

[Cecil]

First I've seen of this in a while...

http://wral.com/news/local/story/2828615/

[Jones_]

I've been touting free expanded service for a long time now. Actually I drew up a whole plan at the "big idea" charette. Would be nice if the decision makers were drawing from the thoughts of folks who frequent life on the streets downtown...

[ncwebguy]

Does anyone know if this is still going to happen? With only a week before the convention center opens, it would be nice to hear when a circulator is going to go online.

It also ties into the parking situation as well. Pay to park streetside or park for free and walk or ride the trolley/circulator. People would be willing to park further from their restaurant/store/office if they can catch a ride on a circulator with frequent service. And it could reduce the congestion created by people circulating the blocks on/near Fayetville street looking for a "free" space.

[rfburns]

There's one line in the N&O today, in an article about the convention center opening:

In January, Raleigh plans to start a free downtown circulator bus route that will allow people to get from the convention center to other areas near Fayetteville Street, such as Glenwood South's restaurant row.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I saw an article in today's 10/17, TBJ regarding retailing/national retailers coming to downtown Raleigh. One of the most important issues is of course the number of people living in downtown. But what surprised me the most was that this person says the "dis-connect" that is felt from one end of F. St./Memorial Auditorium to the other end/State Capital-government workers and from F. St. to Glenwood South is so great that some sort of local transport is needed for "real" retail to truly get a foot hold...

Sorry for the run on....

[Jones_]

Our downtown definitely has limitations that will never be overcome fully. I have noted the canyon of dead space from Salisbury to Dawson Streets. Government buildings, churches, and industrial type operations (AT&T and N&O), occupy almost every square inch north to south in this two block wide area. In some ways, the folks 20 years ago pushing for a "new downtown" may have been aware of some these institutional obstacles, though I don't give them much credit otherwise. Trolleys are nice but our downtown and its physical layout(Glenwood disconnected, West and Harrington disconnect, Peace Street at Capital, on the current land-use noted above require more than just a little salt to improve the taste enough to lure "real retail". 10-20k more residents might bring some better stuff, but don't count an Ikea or an H&M.

[Transplant]

20k downtown residents would put DT Raleigh on par with Seattle of today, or twice as many residents as DT Portland, OR had in 2000.

Retailers would be falling all over themselves to be here. Hopefully we get some moderately priced high rise buildings to go up. Something that can put a 1 bedroom condo in the $225k range.

I would say, though, that I'm not sure that DT Raleigh has enough room for that much construction.

[ChiefJoJo]

View the proposed route here. I like it.

• 10 minute headways; quiet hybrid, low floor bus

• hours: M-W 7-11, T-Sat 7-215am, Sun 1-8

• proposed route serves: RCC, PE Ctr, Shaw, DT Core, Capitol, Govt Ctr, Peace, GlenGo, Warehouse Dist

• service is free, projected to begin in Feb

This is something that is really needed and will be crucial for the success of the convention center and hotels downtown. The only downside is that it might cut into the rickshaw biz a little, but I'm sure there will still be lots of customers who prefer that quaint mode of travel.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

View the proposed route here. I like it.

• 10 minute headways; quiet hybrid, low floor bus

• hours: M-W 7-11, T-Sat 7-215am, Sun 1-8

• proposed route serves: RCC, PE Ctr, Shaw, DT Core, Capitol, Govt Ctr, Peace, GlenGo, Warehouse Dist

• service is free, projected to begin in Feb

This is something that is really needed and will be crucial for the success of the convention center and hotels downtown. The only downside is that it might cut into the rickshaw biz a little, but I'm sure there will still be lots of customers who prefer that quaint mode of travel.

[orulz]

The buses will be 40' Gillig low-floor, electric hybrid, BRT-style vehicles. Not sure about what paint scheme they will choose. I do wonder why they went with the 40' buses, I think a 30' would be plenty (short route, so people probably wouldn't mind standing.)

Nevertheless... Converted school bus? Inmate transfer bus? Didn't realize they used such fancy equipment to shuttle prisoners around These kind of remind me of the Washington DC "Circulator" buses.

My only complaints about the route are: 1. the little jog down West Street, 2. no stop at Nash Square. A simple route with as many straight lines as possible is always best, but I guess the West Street diversion can't be avoided since left turns from WB Peace to SB Glenwood are not allowed.

[Jones_]

I personally have always cast a raised eyebrow to circulator routes. I travel (unless I am in Atlanta...no left turns!) in a point A to point B fashion. I think of circuitous routes like I do the beltline...a whole of driving when a straight shot works faster. So...given our downtown, I realize the points of interest are what are trying to be served here, and also the mostly car-less visitors. But workers and residents will find this route mostly useless unless they happen to want to drink on both Glenwood and central downtown on the same night. Maybe on further reflection, this will work ok given, like I said, our downtown, but as a local, I really never see myself needing it, for work, or going out. The free part though, is absolutely necessary. I have been making that comment in big bright red letters at all the downtown visioning sessions, going all the way back to the CC site selection.

[RaleighRob]

^As a resident, actually, I certainly don't find the route useless. The fact that it's free will certainly make it easy to overlook that the route isn't direct. For example, if I'm at the Raleigh Times with a friend for drinks, and we decide let's get dinner. Walk a block over and hop on the bus, get off at Seaboard Station for some Betski's. Dessert? Hop on the bus again and visit The Cupcake Shoppe on Glenwood. More drinks? Take the bus again and get off at The Borough. All that and not one time needing to use a car. It's great.

Now to be fair, I did submit comments to the planners suggesting two more stops:

One, at the corner of Dawson and Martin....like Orulz said, to provide a stop for Nash Square--and more access to Warehouse District.

Two, at the corner of Glenwood and Morgan, to provide more access to all the residential areas nearby (West Morgan apartments, Boylan Heights, etc).

Hopefully, they'll consider my suggestions. In the future, they'll probably also need to add an additional stop in the northeastern part for access to the Blount Street Commons development.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I need to keep telling myself that this is just the beginning of our much needed downtown transit system...The fact that this part of Raleigh's transit is free..is nothing short of excellence! IMHO!

[ncwebguy]

I would like to see the route go clockwise, instead of counterclockwise. Why? This makes for more right turns, resulting in less idling. But that won't happen because the only other long-running northbound street west of F Street is McDowell, which would not have trolley-friendly stops to wait at. And it would be on the "wrong" side of the convention center, so that was never a possibility.

With the counter clockwise route, Wilmington becomes the logical choice on the east side. Person is too far east, and Blount is one-way south, the wrong way for the route. CAT and Triangle Transit's Durham and Chapel Hill express buses stop near Wilmington Street, making it a good transfer point.

This will also make it easy to ferry guests at the Sheraton and Marriott to to Glenwood South, and get Glenwood South residents (West, 222, 510, Quorum, Glenwood Towers) to the rest of downtown without having to get in their personal transportation. And it could make state government workers less car dependent, making it possible to not have to leave a personal vehicle sit empty for 8 hours a day somewhere north of Capitol Square.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

I wonder how this is going to roll out? An ad in the N&O, WRAL and then the buses roll? Will there be signs at the proposed stops? Saying "FREE, downtown circular"? Has anyone seen or heard anything more about this going from proposed to real? Three weeks away from February!

[ChiefJoJo]

Looks like the service in DTR will begin next month. A similar service will begin in Durham as well.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Looks like the count down has begone...five days left...

[miamiblue]

The R-Line route map is up on the Downtown Raleigh Alliance website: http://www.godowntownraleigh.com/get-aroun...ne/r-line-stops

Hours of operation can be found here: http://www.godowntownraleigh.com/get-around/r-line

Considering that one of the stops is literally steps from my apartment, I haven't really noticed any signs indicating the stop. However, I wasn't looking for it since I only just learned of its location.

I was thinking of taking the R-Line this evening from Glenwood South to Seaboard for dinner, but the counter-clockwise route is probably going to deter us this particular evening, since we will be pressed for time. However, I will most definitely be making use of the circulator in the future (even though I don't mind the walk). We are big First Friday fans, and being able to make it from the Carter Building over to the warehouse district and on to Artspace without having to walk all that way will be a huge plus.

Not to mention, the circle that I run with has been known to drink at Glenwood South, the warehouse district, Fayetteville St, and Moore Square all in one night!

[ncwebguy]

I don't know when service starts, but probably in the next week! There was plastic on the signs I saw yesterday while walking the dog during lunch -- Marbles/Moore Square, Moore Square Deck on Wilmington. I didn't notice the "Fins/PE II" sign, though it was busy in that intersection.

I took a cameraphone pic of the Marbles stop, since the plastic was barely hanging on. I have not uploaded it to a computer yet, but it uses the fonts and colors in the link posted by miamiblue.

On Marbles' sign, there was not an indication that it is an evening-only stop, which I hope does not confuse potential riders waiting for a circulator that doesn't pass by there during the day.

[sax184]

Someone should tell the Downtown Raleigh Alliance that there are capiTAL letters and capiTOL buildings.

Beyond that, I like the maps and graphics, and am glad to see the Amtrak station is on the loop.

[RaleighRob]

On Marbles' sign, there was not an indication that it is an evening-only stop, which I hope does not confuse potential riders waiting for a circulator that doesn't pass by there during the day.

[ncwebguy]

As posted by Jones below (I didn't want to create yet another post), the circulator started service today!

The Amtrack station isn't quite on the loop. The Amtrack stop is on the east side of Dawson, the major north to south one way road through downtown. The ciruculator's "Amtrack stop" is a block/block and a half from the station itself to the west. Not ideal, but better than current bus "service" to the Amtrack station, since CAT is outbound on Dawson and South Streets. This will be only a few minutes to transfer to the Moore Square transit stop.

I just noticed that the circulator really never *connects* to the CAT transfer station. I don't know if this is by design or not. During the day, it stops on Wilmington at the Triangle Transit stop, with a short walk to the transfer station. But after 6:30, the circulator doesn't stop until it is past the buses at City Market while heading east, and again after it passes the buses going west, close to Sitti. It isn't too far of a walk, but acts as if CAT (and even Triangle Transit) don't exist. Though it seems this is more set up for "park (in a deck or hotel room) and ride", not "bus in and ride".

I hope it doesn't turn into a free "babysitter", like CAT's Theater Trolley used to be at times.

I also hope the "after 6:30 route" is the route all day on Saturdays and Sundays, and the signage improves to clarify when the stops are active.

(edit - cleaned up the Amtrack station/circulator stop paragraph, and add N&O link)

[Jones_]

I don't know when service starts, but probably in the next week!

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

I snapped this shot of the Circulator bus today on my way home from work.