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Is Haywood the next McAlister?


vicupstate

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You must be refering to the top 20 largest mac-user metro areas without an Apple store? We are #3 on the list. :shades:Click Here

Edit: Okay, you obviously meant the reference right above the one I saw. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I thought Columbia already had an Apple store though.

Evidently not, if you go to the official Apple web site and look for a store location, S.C. is not listed.

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Evidently not, if you go to the official Apple web site and look for a store location, S.C. is not listed.

A few significant things to remember that bode well for a Greenville Apple store are;

Two existing significant retail presenses; The Apple Shop at CompUSA (don't laugh, their sales are the best in their region) and a dedicated independant retail store - iPlace on Bateville Road in front of Publix

Also the area has several active user groups;

The Greenville Mac User's Group (of which I am an active member and organizer)

The Greer Mac User's Group

A Spartanburg User's group and I think their is good one in the Oconee area that meets in one of the Cliff's communities in the area.

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Any ideas about the longevity of malls like Greenridge? I know it seems to be a national trend, but I don't see the logic.

I fight traffic all the way to the mall and then fight traffic in the mall. I find a parking space, get out of my car, go into a store and then go back to my car to find another parking space. Instead of building stores on top of each other, we spread them out over acres and acres of extra land.

I consider malls, at their best, a necessary evil. My ideal way to shop, when I have to go, is to walk on a sidewalk next to interesting things, stop for a snack, hear some music, maybe some exercise. I prefer something like downtown because it's outdoors, but the Haywood Mall works similarly.

Is the trend here to stay? Do people actually enjoy it more?

Wasn't the idea ot build a community hub for shopping? It's not that way. It's just a Woodruff Road that doesn't go straight, and there are no connector roads for escape.

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Greenridge is not a mall. Its a shopping center with good intensions, and some good aspects. You may drive from one lot to another, but you stay within that site. You don't go out to Woodruff Rd and then come back. Its a small step in the right direction, if nothing else.

The news about the Apple Store is very exciting.

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Any ideas about the longevity of malls like Greenridge? I know it seems to be a national trend, but I don't see the logic.

The national trend of lifestyle centers is here to stay. However, Shops at Greenridge is probably not the best example of one.

The best lifestyle centers are those that are much more pedestrian-oriented. The Shops at Greenridge fails in that regard. The best example I can think of is The Grove in LA.

http://www.thegrovela.com/

It has a very similar feel to a mall, except it is largely outdoors, resulting in better street exposure and lower costs for owners/tenants.

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  • 4 years later...

Any recent thoughts on this topic?

I don't see Haywood dying anytime soon, but with the retail area around it on death watch, that cannot bode well for the mall over the long run. Critical mass is key in retail competition, and if Woodruff Road would get a few department stores, it could create serious competition. Charlotte just got a JC Penney in a strip/big box center in southeast Charlotte, and so some chains consider "off-mall" locations. (Surely Haywood's run-down exterior is a turnoff to some potential tenants- maybe Anthropologie is going downtown instead of to Haywood for ambiance?)

Conversely, I read that an Apple Store often generates the same or higher total sales that a department store anchor generates, so Haywood in a way got a 6th anchor.

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If we can see progress on the Haywood Rd Master Plan, I think some solid variables can be set up for supporting the area that is sort of on "death watch" as you call it-- more residential, and walkability improvements are two that come to mind. I think it could also translate into securing a stronger tenant to replace Sears one day. Haywood isn't going anywhere anytime soon, even with Babies R Us and Toys R Us leaving the hood to follow Rooms To Go.

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Haywood Mall is a regionial destination place. I don't think the closing of stores around have that much effect on it. Like I said it is a destination place that stands on it's own. The traffic is pretty bad on Haywood especially on the weekend and the Mall parking lot is full.

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Enclosed malls are past their peak generally, although Haywood has held up well. If the master plan is not implemented, the store drain will continue, and it WILL eventually affect the mall itself. Do not kid yourself. That is the typical pattern.

The wind seems to be out of the sails on the master plan, and that needs to change. The Stax folks seemed to be the chief proponent of doing the plan and they sold some of there restaurants in the area. There needs to be another person to fill that void.

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I just don't see it. McAlister died because of competition from Haywood, and for a short time, Greenville Mall. There's no real competition to Haywood when it comes to good-old-fashioned-American malls. Sure, there are open air places like Greenridge, but we don't have San Diego weather that would make strolling about from store to store realistic.

And really, a mall is a mall is a mall. Who really cares if the outside looks like Buckingham Palace? You're going to the mall to get something specific (guys) or to window-shop and wander aimlessly for hours (not guys) or to gather in groups and do dumb stuff (teens).

Haywood will go kaput only when/if another mall with different tennants springs up. And though the "ONE" project downtown supposedly will have comparable shopping (according to His Honor The Mayor), I can't see that being a Haywood killer unless it's a major multi-level Galleria-type (Houston) extravaganza with everything under the sun AND a skating rink.

(This diatribe offered by a guy who only goes to Haywood for Sports-Fan-Attic. Odd.) :thumbsup:

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I just don't see it. McAlister died because of competition from Haywood, and for a short time, Greenville Mall. There's no real competition to Haywood when it comes to good-old-fashioned-American malls. Sure, there are open air places like Greenridge, but we don't have San Diego weather that would make strolling about from store to store realistic. And really, a mall is a mall is a mall. Who really cares if the outside looks like Buckingham Palace? You're going to the mall to get something specific (guys) or to window-shop and wander aimlessly for hours (not guys) or to gather in groups and do dumb stuff (teens). Haywood will go kaput only when/if another mall with different tennants springs up. And though the "ONE" project downtown supposedly will have comparable shopping (according to His Honor The Mayor), I can't see that being a Haywood killer unless it's a major multi-level Galleria-type (Houston) extravaganza with everything under the sun AND a skating rink. (This diatribe offered by a guy who only goes to Haywood for Sports-Fan-Attic. Odd.) :thumbsup:

Enclosed malls arose when the general population had more free time and shopping was considered a leisure activity by just about everyone. Today, the leisure aspect has worn off pretty dramatically, and saving time is more important. At a lifestyle center, you can park close to the one or two places you want and go and be on your way. 'Old-fashioned' is a appropriate term for enclosed malls. Time is passing them by, and online shopping will only add to their burden to survive.

The downward trend of Columbia Mall accelerated after the Village at Sandhills opened. And very indicative, is the fact that the areas AROUND that mall preceded the decline of the mall itself.

Ask yourself, which store likely has a better sales trend-line, the Barnes & Noble at Haywood or the one at Greenridge?

If Simon (HM owner) and the city are SMART, they will proactively work NOW to prevent Haywood Road from becoming another Pleasantburg Drive, circa 2001. It will cost a lot more money to bring Haywood Road BACK a decade from now, than it will to simply reverse a downward trend.

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If Simon (HM owner) and the city are SMART, they will proactively work NOW to prevent Haywood Road from becoming another Pleasantburg Drive, circa 2001. It will cost a lot more money to bring Haywood Road BACK a decade from now, than it will to simply reverse a downward trend.

Exactly. Simon ought to be sprucing up the mall's exterior and parking lot and adding a lifestyle center addition; it did all of those things with SouthPark, as well as luring retailers to Haywood Road.

The demise of Pleasantburg also preceded the demise of McAlister Square. There was very little left on that road that was A-grade destination retail by the 1990s. Same for Bell Tower Mall, which died in the 1980s; there was nothing around it at the time. Why would anyone go to either mall, when they could go to Haywood which at the time had lots around it and could combine multiple trips that way? At some point people will be saying the same about Haywood.

I care about Haywood's aesthetics. I shop there only when I have to, in large part due to the unappealing visual aspects of the place. A good atmosphere and visual appeal can bring business--look at downtown.

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Any recent thoughts on this topic? I don't see Haywood dying anytime soon, but with the retail area around it on death watch, that cannot bode well for the mall over the long run. Critical mass is key in retail competition, and if Woodruff Road would get a few department stores, it could create serious competition. Charlotte just got a JC Penney in a strip/big box center in southeast Charlotte, and so some chains consider "off-mall" locations. (Surely Haywood's run-down exterior is a turnoff to some potential tenants- maybe Anthropologie is going downtown instead of to Haywood for ambiance?) Conversely, I read that an Apple Store often generates the same or higher total sales that a department store anchor generates, so Haywood in a way got a 6th anchor.

I don't really see that happening ever. There's essentially no room for a department store on Woodruff, and I really can't see any of them except Sears of JCPenney opening there. I still think an outdoor addition with a Cheesecake Factory, etc. would work well. Also, a new wing through Sears and a new department store (maybe Von Maur, but I still would prefer a smaller, 100,000 square foot Nordstrom). Besides, didn't Belk lose St. John anyway? They could always have a C store, which is very nice for a Nordstrom. It would be pretty amazing if they did that at Haywood and attracted a very large store like Ikea to replace some crappy strip malls on Haywood, then there's no way Haywood could ever fail. Haywood is actually extremely healthy from Woods Crossing to Pelham, which will be the only part of Haywood that you would see when going to the mall. Plus, most people really don't care about what it looks like. I do, but I really don't see too much wrong with Haywood. I would definitely prefer a nicer exterior, but there's really not anything wrong with the brick. Also, there's really just way too many people that go to Haywood. On Saturdays, it's always hard to find a parking space even relatively close to the entrance. I'm sure people are going to remember that Coach boutique, large Apple store, upscale brands offered at Belk, Macy's, etc., Pottery Barn, etc. over the outside of the mall. I notice things a lot more than others (especially malls), and It took me years to actually remember what Haywood looked on the outside (well, at least I can remember every part of the exterior exactly).

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Department stores are fast becoming relics of the past, like the enclosed malls in which they reside. I haven't been to HM in many years. I agree with mallguy on the need to work on the aesthetics and offerings. it needs to be freshened up in a big way. Keep it healthy NOW, while it is still in better than average shape.

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Department stores are fast becoming relics of the past, like the enclosed malls in which they reside. I haven't been to HM in many years. I agree with mallguy on the need to work on the aesthetics and offerings. it needs to be freshened up in a big way. Keep it healthy NOW, while it is still in better than average shape.

The interior is wonderful. The exterior does need help, but they have to be careful not to make it too fake. Much of Florida comes to mind :unsure:

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Department stores aren't doing bad. Every time I go to the mall they're really packed (except for Sears and JCPenney sometimes). You have to remember that there are many brands carried at department stores that aren't really available anywhere else. With no department stores anymore, that would leave Greenville with no Lacoste, Ralph Lauren, Cole Haan, Michael Kors, Mac, Clinique, etc. It really wouldn't make any sense to get rid of them.

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Enclosed malls arose when the general population had more free time and shopping was considered a leisure activity by just about everyone. Today, the leisure aspect has worn off pretty dramatically, and saving time is more important. At a lifestyle center, you can park close to the one or two places you want and go and be on your way. 'Old-fashioned' is a appropriate term for enclosed malls. Time is passing them by, and online shopping will only add to their burden to survive. The downward trend of Columbia Mall accelerated after the Village at Sandhills opened. And very indicative, is the fact that the areas AROUND that mall preceded the decline of the mall itself. Ask yourself, which store likely has a better sales trend-line, the Barnes & Noble at Haywood or the one at Greenridge? If Simon (HM owner) and the city are SMART, they will proactively work NOW to prevent Haywood Road from becoming another Pleasantburg Drive, circa 2001. It will cost a lot more money to bring Haywood Road BACK a decade from now, than it will to simply reverse a downward trend.

Do you know the answer to that question? I have been to both on many occasions. The one at Haywood is always busier than the one on Woodruff. It is also much easier to get in and out of than the one on Woodruff.

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Do you know the answer to that question? I have been to both on many occasions. The one at Haywood is always busier than the one on Woodruff. It is also much easier to get in and out of than the one on Woodruff.

Yeah, i'll go to the haywood location over woodruff any day. I think i've only been in the woodruff B&N a handful of times. Like you said, the Haywood store is always busy so I don't think they're doing worse than the other. Going to the greenridge store sucks. Once I navigate my way through traffic, crappy drivers, and a terribly planned shopping center I don't even wanna go in the store anymore.

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Department stores aren't doing bad. Every time I go to the mall they're really packed (except for Sears and JCPenney sometimes). You have to remember that there are many brands carried at department stores that aren't really available anywhere else. With no department stores anymore, that would leave Greenville with no Lacoste, Ralph Lauren, Cole Haan, Michael Kors, Mac, Clinique, etc. It really wouldn't make any sense to get rid of them.

Agreed. Look at department stores' sales and market share in particular; after a decline for the past few decades, department stores' market share at least is growing these days.

Also, what if Von Maur, when it comes to Greenville, goes to Greenridge instead of Haywood? Greenridge could find space for an additional anchor- maybe by building a parking deck or something.

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Do you know the answer to that question? I have been to both on many occasions. The one at Haywood is always busier than the one on Woodruff. It is also much easier to get in and out of than the one on Woodruff.

Which is busiest is not my point. The fact is, Haywood once had the one and only B&N and now it shares the market with a Woodruff Road location. In effect it has already moved 'one foot' to Woodruff Rd. Previously, if you wanted to go to a B&N, you HAD to go to Haywood Rd.

While the Haywood location is still more convenient for many, the Woodruff Rd. location is at least CLOSER if you live in the Golden Strip. It's doubtful many people in the Golden Strip will drive past Woodruff Road to go to the Haywood location. Thus the Haywood traffic has been somewhat cannalbalized, relative to pre-Greenridge days.

Taken in combination with the flight of other stores, moving with 'both feet' if you will, it all adds up to fewer reasons to shop in the Haywood Road corridor. Apple and the other new stores in the mall do provide a counter-balance, but that helps the mall more than the surrounding area. The fortunes of the two are linked.

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