Is Haywood the next McAlister?

[101_ce]

I think that they should still definitely renovate the mall and, if Sears should decide to close or something, add a Nordstrom, or even a Von Maur. Just get rid of that no-business-ever-unless-it's-Black-Friday store. It makes me sad because Sears used to be pretty nice and there are a bunch of old funny men that work there, haha. So I don't want them to lose their jobs or anything. I think they should also close the Haywood Rd. Barnes & Noble and move it over to the mall and have a larger store than the one on Woodruff Road. Having a larger store, larger parking lot, better location, being at the mall, there's hardly any way that the Haywood store can't surpass or at least meet the Woodruff Road one. The only thing I'm concerned about is having 3 Barnes & Noble stores less than 10 miles from each other. If they decide that 3 is too many, the Haywood one will definitely be the one to close. I would definitely like to have a Cheesecake Factory in Greenville, also. Even though Magnolia looks like it has two restaurants Cheesecake Factory sized, I don't really think it will be upscale enough for them anymore. I think a larger outdoor Pottery Barn, 2 story H&M, Cheesecake Factory, and *wishful thinking* The Container Store. That would be a huge hit, and if done correctly with new retail through the former Sears and a new department store (Nordstrom, Von Maur, Lord & Taylor, etc.) I think it could really turn Haywood around for the good. Maybe Target will get tired of their small, old Target on Woodruff, close, and open a brand new Super Target on Haywood. While some people may think Target is almost as bad as Walmart, the stores are much cleaner, they have higher quality and more health conscious items. If they could just get those stores, Haywood would attract new stores and become more like Woodruff, with preferably less traffic and maybe a little urban, sort of like a mini SouthPark area. I just wish REI and Trader Joe's went to Haywood instead because they would fit well! Also, they could (if Nordstrom opens) put a Nordstrom Rack in the old Circuit City. Maybe put some more nicer restaurants around the mall too, like J. Alexander's, McCormick & Schmick's and Maggiano's. I mean come on, hasn't almost everything (aside from luxury retailers or upscale retailers like Gucci, Louis Vuitton, etc.) chose Greenville out of the SC "big 4" (Greenville, Columbia, Charleston, Myrtle Beach) to open first? Being the largest and most upscale mall in SC and being probably fourth in the Carolinas, concerning the size and how upscale it is. First would obviously be SouthPark, then I kind of think that Crabtree Valley and South Point are tied under that, then Haywood, Northlake, and Friendly Center are generally tied as well. I just want Haywood to move up to the tier with Crabree/SouthPoint and they will if they would do what I'm thinking.

[gman430]

I would love to see Sears close and get replaced by Von Maur or Nordstrom. Doubt it will happen though sadly. And yes, the mall could use an exterior renovation (not sure why Simon hasn't done one yet minus the entrances) but I still don't see it going downhill and closing anytime soon if ever. It has a strong tenant mix, owner, and is near 100% occupancy currently. The mall was also slammed full with shoppers on Black Friday from what I saw.

[RiverWalker]

I see, from scoping out Black Friday hours, that the Barnes & Noble on Haywood has shorter hours than the Woodruff Road store.

Generally that would mean that the Woodruff Rd. store does more business.

Or maybe a different consumer demographic? For instance, the Haywood Road shop draws a lot of traffic from among students who attend nearby schools (Greenville Tech, University Center, Southern Wesleyan, Strayer University, ITT Tech...), whose hours of patronage are probably different from those of the (sub)urban professionals and others who frequent the Greenridge store. Students might spend spend more money on coffee than on books right now, but introduction to the B&N culture at a young age could make them lifelong B&N consumers.

[mallguy]

Or maybe a different consumer demographic? For instance, the Haywood Road shop draws a lot of traffic from among students who attend nearby schools (Greenville Tech, University Center, Southern Wesleyan, Strayer University, ITT Tech...), whose hours of patronage are probably different from those of the (sub)urban professionals and others who frequent the Greenridge store. Students might spend spend more money on coffee than on books right now, but introduction to the B&N culture at a young age could make them lifelong B&N consumers.

That may certainly be the case, but the Haywood store opens later and closes earlier; would students shop only during those shorter hours?

Re: Haywood, I thought that the Atlanta Journal-Constitution stated that Von Maur is eyeing the Carolinas, and Greenville would be the next logical stop from Atlanta (with easy distribution up and down I-85). I'd think that a department store would be willing to go to Greenridge if the space can be found (and it can, somehow), but I'd think that Von Maur would naturally come to Haywood.

[RiverWalker]

That may certainly be the case, but the Haywood store opens later and closes earlier; would students shop only during those shorter hours?

I was thinking of daytime commuter students, who would be more likely to patronize the store between classes or immediately after classes, so yes. Evening students typically work during the day. If the store were situated near a residential campus, it probably could support earlier and later hours, which is yet another demographic situation that wouldn't apply in this case.

[gman430]

Backhoes and bulldozers have started demolition on the former large Sofa Express store.

[RiverWalker]

Backhoes and bulldozers have started demolition on the former large Sofa Express store.

Do we know of anything planned to replace it?

[gman430]

Do we know of anything planned to replace it?

Rumor is QuikTrip or Spinx but that's just a rumor so take it with a big bucket of salt.

[mallguy]

Sears is doomed. I don't expect it to close until the chain closes, but with the chain's declining sales and round of store closings, it's the next Montgomery Ward.

[101_ce]

I don't want Sears to close. It's boring but it makes me sad for all the nice people that work there. Though I must admit I am having my fingers crossed for the Haywood store to close. If they did add a lifestyle center with a Cheesecake Factory, new Barnes & Noble, and maybe a larger Pottery Barn, H&M, etc., completely renovated the exterior and interior of the mall, then a Nordstrom is very possible. It would cost over $100 million, but I think the amount of sales would eventually be worth it. I think it could actually hurt Woodruff Road some, considering that new stores and restaurants would then prefer Haywood over Woodruff if the mall made itself that nice, especially with Woodruff's traffic and lack of space.

[johnpro318]

Sears is doomed. I don't expect it to close until the chain closes, but with the chain's declining sales and round of store closings, it's the next Montgomery Ward.

Sears needs to get out of the malls and become a standalone department store like Kohl's. They could quit with K-mart and use some of the K-mart locations to build new Sears stores. Their stores have no merchandise or staff and haven't been updated for years. The stores are literally falling apart.

[RiverWalker]

Sears needs to get out of the malls and become a standalone department store like Kohl's. They could quit with K-mart and use some of the K-mart locations to build new Sears stores. Their stores have no merchandise or staff and haven't been updated for years. The stores are literally falling apart.

Kmart management, Kmart mentality. No hope, no future.

The web site 24/7 Wall St. has already predicted the mortal end of the Sears brand, as it did the now defunct Saab automobile company. That said, the first 80 Sears and Kmart stores to be closed in the latest round have been announced, with only one located in South Carolina, that store being in Sumter. All doomed stores seem to be located in cities that have suffered greater unemployment in general than the Upstate. Georgia and North Carolina will lose six and four stores, respectively. Ten stores will close in Florida, while Michigan, Georgia and Ohio will lose six stores each. However, there are more announcements to come.

[NCMike1981]

Sears going out of business completely would be horrible for many dying malls as Sears tends to be the last anchor standing in many cases....I know there is Holly Hill Mall in Burlington which is anchored only by Sears....Northgate Mall in Durham is anchored by Sears and a Macy*s that doesn't do all that great business...I'm sure there are many malls out there in similar situations. I think when Montgomery Ward completely died about 10 yrs back it ended up killing some malls within a short period of time of their closing...Carolina Circle Mall in Greensboro comes to mind....

On a side note I think Sears closing could be a positive for some larger upper/middle class malls as it could possibly allow the mall to bring in a new anchor. I think alot of it depends on the condition of the mall and the demographics around it....I'm thinking of the Crabtree Valley Mall store in particular....that mall needs a unique upscale anchor to replace the Lord & Taylor that closed a few years back....

But I like many others predict something is going to have to give with Sears. Either Sears or Kmart or both will probably die within the next decade...although Kmart should have died around 2000 i.m.o. I'm suprised they are still around honestly....It's like stepping back into the '70s as soon as you go into one.

P.S. I thought Saab almost died but was saved last minute? http://www.saabusa.c...en/start#/home/

[101_ce]

I hope it would be good in Haywood's case as well. What about Triangle Town Center, though? If it lost Sears then it won't be very stable with just Belk, Saks, Macy's and Dillard's. Especially since Saks isn't doing too well. If (unlikely) Sears closed at Southpoint or Crabtree and Neiman Marcus opened then Saks would probably close. Bloomingdale's or Von Maur could open too, even though Von maur is more likely. I think that if Sears can close more stores and minimize their expenses (at least if they sell a good portion of the stores they own) then they could probably save themselves and just operate in less-upscale malls (not Crabtree, Haywood, Southpoint, etc.) and maybe relocate into former K-Mart stores like someone else suggested. Kmart is pretty bad, though. The stores are SO outdated and they aren't very competitive with pricing. If Sears can save money and close around 40% of their stores they can, if they will, be more competitive in their pricing and might be able to save themselves.

[NCMike1981]

^I've heard mixed things about the Saks at TTC Mall in Raleigh. Some people say it's doing ok, some people say it's not. I think most people agree the store would have been better suited at Crabtree had there been room. Trouble with Crabtree is it's landlocked and surrounded on all but one tiny corner by parking decks (luckily people in Raleigh don't seem to have an aversion to the decks like some suburban cities). I could picture something upscale replacing Sears there as the store is located in a prime location and the mall is almost always packed. That said TTC, aside from Saks, is solidly middle/upper middle class in it's offerings, and while I doubt a department store would replace a vacant Sears there I'm sure they'd do something with it. Either divide it up or find a non dept store anchor. TTC is just so dull and bleh imo, I think thats why you tend to hear more about Crabtree or Southpoint, even though TTC has only been open since '02. From what I hear the mall is basically Raleigh's version of Charlotte's Northlake....but with a Saks added on.

I am curious about this Von Maur store though....I have a feeling it's entry point in the Carolinas would probably be Charlotte, although sometimes stores suprise us all and pick Raleigh (or Southpoint in Durham) 1st....

I do need to take a trip to Haywood if I'm ever out that way. I've been following the threads some and the mall sounds pretty nice.

[GvilleSC]

I do need to take a trip to Haywood if I'm ever out that way. I've been following the threads some and the mall sounds pretty nice.

The remodel a few year back made it very nice on the inside.

[101_ce]

^I've heard mixed things about the Saks at TTC Mall in Raleigh. Some people say it's doing ok, some people say it's not. I think most people agree the store would have been better suited at Crabtree had there been room. Trouble with Crabtree is it's landlocked and surrounded on all but one tiny corner by parking decks (luckily people in Raleigh don't seem to have an aversion to the decks like some suburban cities). I could picture something upscale replacing Sears there as the store is located in a prime location and the mall is almost always packed. That said TTC, aside from Saks, is solidly middle/upper middle class in it's offerings, and while I doubt a department store would replace a vacant Sears there I'm sure they'd do something with it. Either divide it up or find a non dept store anchor. TTC is just so dull and bleh imo, I think thats why you tend to hear more about Crabtree or Southpoint, even though TTC has only been open since '02. From what I hear the mall is basically Raleigh's version of Charlotte's Northlake....but with a Saks added on.

I am curious about this Von Maur store though....I have a feeling it's entry point in the Carolinas would probably be Charlotte, although sometimes stores suprise us all and pick Raleigh (or Southpoint in Durham) 1st....

I do need to take a trip to Haywood if I'm ever out that way. I've been following the threads some and the mall sounds pretty nice.

It is kind of odd, though because Northlake's stores are generally more upscale than Triangle's, but yet the anchors are largely middle-market. But then Triangle's range from not as good, to much more upscale. So I suppose in a way they are very similar. One thing I have thought sometimes is that Belk should have kept Parisian (the name at least), and upgraded it. Then, they could definitely compete with Saks a lot more. A downtown Charleston store would be nice. The Alabama stores that people got so upset over could have remained Parisian too. They could even keep them in the same malls, like West Town. They would have to be very comparable with Saks in smaller cities like Birmingham and (formerly) Charleston. I was pretty impressed with Southpoint. I didn't go to Crabtree or Triangle because I assumed I would be disappointed. The reason why is that I've heard that it is comparable to SouthPark, and I would be probably disappointed because that would probably put my expectations too high, But I knew I would like Southpoint better than Triangle, so I just went there.

Haywood is basically just like Crabtree and Southpoint, just minus the nice restaurants, flagship Belk (although Haywood is probably nicer than Southpoint's store), Nordstrom, Lacoste, Cole Haan, Crate & Barrel, H&M, and XXI. Then add in a Dillard's and JCPenney. I do think that Haywood's interior is #2 in the Carolinas, IMO. Only SouthPark looks better.

[mallguy]

I could envision Von Maur replacing Sears at Haywood one day, or having a vacant Sears at Haywood replaced by a lifestyle component like SouthPark did when its Sears closed.

I think that Crabtree, TTC and Northlake are somewhat more upscale than Haywood, but it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. North Charlotte and central/north Raleigh probably have higher per-capita incomes than Greenville does, but they are all pretty comparable malls.

[NCMike1981]

I never had the chance to go into Parisian but I gather they had quite the loyal following and that alot of people were upset Belk bought them out (sort of like how Federated Macy-ated all those regional chains a few years back).

On a side note Southpoint and Crabtree are pretty comparable inside although it seems like Southpoint is slowly starting to win out as far as market exclusives....but the 2 malls are like 25 miles away from each other so they don't really hurt each other as far as foot traffic is concerned....where they hurt each other is when stores look to enter the region and they only want to open one store in the area....None of the Triangle malls seem to aspire to be Southpark-like but I don't think the area could support a large super upscale mall as of now.

Sorry going to stop being all off topic now lol

[mallguy]

Parisian was my favorite store. The sales associates would serve you drinks while you shopped, the clothes were more upscale than at Belk's (no $9.99 track suits at Parisian, but it wasn't way expensive, either; at the time, it was about the same as a Lord & Taylor) and at least the Greenville Mall location was a very nice store, with a large, open rotunda in the middle of the store, and an open, modern atmosphere.

I don't think that Greenville would give a Nordstrom enough business. How many people would shell out $500 for a pair of Ferragamo shoes?

[RiverWalker]

...I like many others predict something is going to have to give with Sears. Either Sears or Kmart or both will probably die within the next decade...although Kmart should have died around 2000 i.m.o. I'm suprised they are still around honestly....It's like stepping back into the '70s as soon as you go into one.

P.S. I thought Saab almost died but was saved last minute? http://www.saabusa.c...en/start#/home/

Let us not forget that Sears is really Kmart. Kmart bought Sears - not the other way around - with primarily the Kmart management surviving. management chose to keep the Sears name, which was perceived to have a higher value. Apparently the ploy worked. However, if Sears management was bad, Kmart management is even worse, which is why BOTH Kmart and Sears stores are being left to moulder. I agree that Kmart should have died long ago, and that should tell you where I think Sears is going. One smart move, however, would be to spin off the Lands End brand again, if that hasn't already been damaged beyond repair.

Returning to the topic, Von Maur would be a very nice replacement for Sears at Haywood.

(As for Saab, it was in trouble a while back and was indeed saved by a last-minute acquisition. However, the company continued to stumble, even had difficulty paying its employees. On December 19 Saab filed for bankrupcy and has been expected to be liquidated, although there are late reports that Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd., India's biggest sport-utility vehicle manufacturer, is interested in buying part or possibly all of the company. But how many lives can this cat have left?)

[vicupstate]

From Greenville News:

Potential new development and city beautification work along Haywood Road may signal a revival of the commercial corridor where business and property owners have long been concerned about retailers and shoppers leaving for greener pastures on Woodruff Road.

RealtyLink, a Greenville-based developer, hopes to redevelop the property that Toys R Us is planning to vacate at the intersection of Haywood and Woods Crossing Road as well as the shopping center next door where Circuit City used to be, a principal with the development firm said.

“It will probably be the first major development along the Haywood Road corridor in the last ten years,” said Greenville architect Joe Pazdan. Pazdan, whose family owns land along Haywood Road, is part of a group of business and property owners that has worked with city officials to spruce up the corridor. He said the RealtyLink development, if it succeeds, will show “there’s still life around the Haywood Road corridor and interest from retailers.”

Neil Wilson, a principal with RealtyLink, confirmed the redevelopment project but said he wasn’t at liberty to provide details.

Not far away, where Woods Crossing Road turns into Congaree Road, Greenville real estate broker Marty Navarro is working to bring new development to 10.7 acres where the Yagoto Japanese restaurant and Nippon Center used to be. The property is owned by the Tsuzuki family.

Navarro said he’s talked to apartment developers and a national chain about developing the site, which is next to Haywood Mall and includes a 16,000-square-foot building.

“What we’re trying to do is sell the site, either in its entirety or acting as a master developer where we could sell off smaller parcels with a well-conceived master plan in place,” Navarro said. “We feel it’s a pretty incredible site.”

Meanwhile, the city of Greenville is ready to launch two long-planned beautification projects along Haywood Road.

Work to bury power lines at the intersection with Woods Crossing and to landscape the Interstate 385 interchange should begin this year, said Greg Strait, an economic development analyst with the city.

Those projects originated with a consultant’s report that the city commissioned in response to concerns about keeping Haywood Road vibrant amid newer retail development along Woodruff Road.

Since the report came out in 2009, three major retailers — Rooms to Go, Toys R Us and Babies R Us — have moved, or agreed to move, from Haywood Road to the Magnolia Park Town Center along Woodruff Road.

City Councilman David Sudduth, who represents most of the Haywood Road corridor, said the city’s economic development department has been aggressive about marketing vacant retail properties along the corridor “and I want to see us do that even more during the new year. I think the market and the economic tide is turning.”

Sudduth said the city still reaps a lot of property tax and business license revenue from Haywood Road.

“We’ve spent virtually no money there for quite a while and (city investment in new infrastructure is) long over due,” he said.

The city so far has not implemented other ideas contained in the consultant’s report.

Those include turning Haywood and Mall Connector roads into tree-lined boulevards with sidewalks and building an amphitheater for family entertainment on 25 acres near Fluor Corp.'s campus.

A Charlotte developer had planned a mix of shopping, offices, housing and a hotel on the site before the economy turned sour.

Navarro said he believes Haywood Road is due for a resurgence of retail development over the next two to five years. It’s in the middle of town, he noted, and near campuses operated by Fluor Corp. and the Greenville Hospital System.

Navarro said the corridor’s biggest draw, Haywood Mall, continues to perform well despite all the new shopping that’s developed on Woodruff Road over the past decade.

[greenvilleguy]

Abercrombie and Fitch is closing at the end of the month and the manager there said reps from Armani Exchange were in the mall inquiring about the size of their space.

[gman430]

Not surprising seeing how they are closing in Charleston and Columbia also. I would be shocked if Armani Exchange came here.

[101_ce]

I have had a good time talking with you guys! Sadly, I will not be around here too often (in the threads or at the mall), considering that over 70% of my shopping is done at A&F. One day, in 2015, maybe Haywood will complete a renovation and attract a Nordstrom. I hope A&F will be back then and better than ever!