Would you support a casino in downtown GR?

[superNOVA]

It still irks me that the heavyweights in downtown philanthropy think this casino in Wayland will have detrimental impact to downtown's progress. I don't know if I'm going to get on the bandwagon that they aren't in touch with the reality of downtown, but seriously if downtown is that fragile we have bigger problems. There's something far more fundamentally wrong if all that is the case.

[Mark Miller]

I don't question that either -- they are correct. What is fundamentally wrong is the notion a single casino has the most detriment to the vitality of downtown. There are plenty of things depreciating downtown that deserve much more action than this casino is getting. Where is the, "Suburban Retail is Enough" group? Where are the action councils for a swift decision on Light Rail and expanded transit -- the funding mechanisms to change the face of Grand Rapids? I suspect it wouldn't be headed by the vary same people promoting downtown and denouncing the casino.

[GRDadof3]

Hey, where is the "23 Cabela's Are Enough" group to fight giving tax breaks and subsidizing a business that WILL pull people from downtown?

SuperNOVA, thanks for the personal insults. It always adds to discussion. There is no way to quantifiably tell how much entertainment dollar will be lost to Wayland vs. downtown. How exactly would you come up with those numbers? The first assumption you'd have to make is that demographically the same entertainment venues downtown will draw the same people to Wayland (how can you make that assumption?). About the only thing they say is "casino X might bring in $100 - $150 Million revenue, so we'll take that revenue out of the downtown column and put it in the Wayland column". Yeah right.

The main reason the big families downtown are opposed are mainly because of moral/social decay reasons, plain and simple.

[Libertarian]

Hey, where is the "23 Cabela's Are Enough" group to fight giving tax breaks and subsidizing a business that WILL pull people from downtown?

[Mark Miller]

Secchia is on 96.9LAV right now talking about the casino and DT

[GaryP]

Secchia is on 96.9LAV right now talking about the casino and DT

[superNOVA]

SuperNOVA, thanks for the personal insults. It always adds to discussion. There is no way to quantifiably tell how much entertainment dollar will be lost to Wayland vs. downtown. How exactly would you come up with those numbers? The first assumption you'd have to make is that demographically the same entertainment venues downtown will draw the same people to Wayland (how can you make that assumption?). About the only thing they say is "casino X might bring in $100 - $150 Million revenue, so we'll take that revenue out of the downtown column and put it in the Wayland column". Yeah right.

[michaelskis]

Does anyone have numbers on how the Casino has influenced Detroit?

I think that some major questions will need to be asked:

Will it create the destination environment that everyone will want to go to?

Will it enhance or hurt the downtown?

Where will it go and what would need to be changed in downtown to accommodate it?

What will the spin off be? Will it even have a spin off, or will the activities be isolated to that building?

What would be the surrounding uses?

I personally would not be in favor of it being constructed in downtown. As for the influence of the Wayland Casino, growing up in the UP, a major destination casino was built not too far from our city (about 20 minute drive), and it had no influence on downtown.

[Mark Miller]

Did anyone catch what he said?

[Prankster]

I listened to what Secchia said and must admit that I agree with most of what he said. His biggest desire is for downtown to succeed.

It sounds like on principle he is against any kind of casino anywhere, a sentiment that I personally share. What he is saying is that there is currently not a level playing field in regards to the placement of casinos and if a tribe can build one in Wayland, why can't a different entity build one in GR. He went into the history of this band of Indians and how they moved from Kalamazoo and set up a tribe in Wayland, primarily to enable a casino. They also happen to work with a huge lobbying firm that has heavy influence on many politicians via lots of monetary donations.

He indicated that he has no interest in being involved with a casino in GR, it was just something he had suggested.

Overall I believe that he is well intentioned, wanting what will be best for the city - just like the vast majority of people here.

Of course the road to hell is paved in good intentions.

[GRDadof3]

Peter Secchia's reasoning for a downtown casino

God love em, but I still disagree. He talks about having empty storefronts when the casino is built. We have empty storefronts now and they will increase when the lifestyle centers are built (if nothing aggressive is done).

[suydam]

Not to sound too petty, but if he wants whats best for downtown, then use his influence to have Universal Forest Products move it's HQ downtown.

[oakesLife]

I think in the interest of the people, not the city, a casino will be bad news. I know a lot of college students that have become addicted to on-line poker. Imagine if they could play real poker - drop out rates I think would increase. I also think we can come up with much better ideas for dt entertainment than a casino! A movie theatre perhaps? I know there has been discussions about this on UP already. Casino's will bring in a outsiders, yes, but they'll likely stay at the casino, eat at the casino's restaurants, and then when they blow all their money they may leave and browse some dt retail but they won't be able to buy anything.

bad idea.

[Prankster]

Sounds petty.

[n_wasmiller]

I've been trying to keep up on the topic of a casino in downtown for some time, but I've always come back to this question - Isn't it almost impossible to build a casino anymore? Native American tribes, who have a far easier time getting approvals for a casino than anyone else, have hit stumbling block after stumbling block trying to build casinos on sites that are not on a reserve. Another tribe ran into this issue today. Here's the link: Romulus casino plan rejected

So how could anyone get a casino in downtown Grand Rapids?

Overall, I think a casino could be a good thing in Grand Rapids if it were built near our entertainment district and was owned by the community. I'm just not sure if it is realisitic. Please correct me if I am wrong.

One more question, I saw a post earlier in this thread that said Van Andel Arena could be extended to its full size if a casino is build just to the south. What would that full size be? Would the back be extended?

[jbr12]

The same way private parties were able to get casinos built in Detroit... through the state legislature.

VanAndel was designed to be expanded to the south to the 'loading' dock area... I'm assuming to add another section of seating similar to the east and west sides.

[GRDadof3]

The same way private parties were able to get casinos built in Detroit... through the state legislature.

VanAndel was designed to be expanded to the south to the 'loading' dock area... I'm assuming to add another section of seating similar to the east and west sides.

[jbr12]

It probably showed up on the bottom "Similar Topics" area with all the talk about the Muskegon Casinos lately...

[houseofdon]

The same way private parties were able to get casinos built in Detroit... through the state legislature.