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The State of Downtown Grand Rapids Retail


GRDadof3

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16 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

Well the backlash got rough.  Then they deleted the post.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17681137/PropagandaDoughnuts_07072017.png

Backlash?

People were angry because they said why they were closing? Businesses all over that block have had a terrible time because of the homeless that are in fact doing exactly what they said. The Local Epircurian(sp?) vacated back to Eastown, Goodwill left and their space has never filled. There was a shoe store that bailed as well.

 

It isnt like it is a big secret as to why.

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For their observation that it was difficult to run a business in an area with significant numbers of homeless persons panhandling customers, using drugs and alcohol in public, and utilizing the sidewalk and doorways as toilets, Propaganda's owners were branded racists, classists, "supremists", and hateful bigots, blamed for "bringing stress to the city", having a "lack of empathy", and being "disgusting and shameful."  

No wonder discussing the homeless population and its impact on a retail environment is such a taboo subject.  Turning this into a Jeopardy answer, I doubt I would have guessed the question: 

A.  An observation which means you are a hateful, bigoted, shameful, disgusting, white supremacist racist.

Q.  What is the observation by an overpriced donut shop that large numbers of intoxicated homeless people panhandling and urinating in doorways results in an inhospitable shopping environment?  

Gotta love ya, Internets.  :unsure:

Edited by x99
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18 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Backlash?

People were angry because they said why they were closing? Businesses all over that block have had a terrible time because of the homeless that are in fact doing exactly what they said. The Local Epircurian(sp?) vacated back to Eastown, Goodwill left and their space has never filled. There was a shoe store that bailed as well.

 

It isnt like it is a big secret as to why.

Cigar shop bailed. A PR firm bailed. 

The backlash was strange. It's like people are either in denial or they think that bringing up these issues is "mean." 

Granted the donut shop went downhill after Tory left and went to the Downtown Market, and Bob Dykstra (landlord) has replaced Azzar as the man everyone loves to hate.

But none of that changes the way business owners feel like theyre treated by the homeless crowds every day.

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38 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Cigar shop bailed. A PR firm bailed. 

The backlash was strange. It's like people are either in denial or they think that bringing up these issues is "mean." 

Granted the donut shop went downhill after Tory left and went to the Downtown Market, and Bob Dykstra (landlord) has replaced Azzar as the man everyone loves to hate.

But none of that changes the way business owners feel like theyre treated by the homeless crowds every day.

The Pasta place too

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Apparently the people who actually do enjoy navigating large numbers of intoxicated homeless people panhandling and urinating in doorways to reach and then shop in an inhospitable environment is a small but quite vocal group.  If only they'd purchased more donuts and handed them out to their intoxicated, panhandling, urinating pals, Propaganda might still be in business.

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6 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

Yes, they are giving a valid reason for the failure of the business, at least to some, but the backlash is also there because they are giving a reason for closing while ignoring their own faults.  Past employees of the shop have come out and stated that the business did not close because of the location issue, but because of mis-management.  Passing the blame to the homeless is what is making the people mad.

1. Their hours were not consistent, they would often be closed then they said they would be open. They would close early with patrons inside and lock the doors and not let customers in.

2. The product declined, with the exit of Tory, the quality and selection dropped and the prices stayed the same. Quanitity was low, many times they would run out way before closing.

3. There are accusations, by past employees, that the "Vegan" donuts were not Vegan.

4. There are successful businesses such as Vertigo on that stretch along with Rockwells.

5. The Owner is said to be harsh and selfish, forcing the DAAC out of its location.

There are much better ways to handle issues with your business, not fixing the true issues of why you are failing and then blaming it on something on the outside seems a cop-out.

They never attempted wider distribution, never made moves to sell product at local markets or stores, they were lazy and then blamed it on the neighborhood.

The owner of the building Bob Dykstra, and his children were the ones running the shops. After Tory, two of his children were in charge of the Bandit Queen and Propaganda Donuts, probably the main reason they did not relocated is because they were getting free rent.

 

 

Maybe those things were part of it too, but the issue of the homeless concentrating there, which multiple other businesses having left or closed because of it, is still the ten-thousand pound elephant in the room.

Maybe the homeless + harassment was the last straw, or the weight that crushed the place after all of those other reason rotted out the foundation. In the end the business is still gone, like the others, and the homeless concentration keeps getting worse. I think Vertigo's customers are mostly younger people that have a tendency to have an ultra altruistic vision of homelessness and maybe see them as just misunderstood bohemians, while Rockwells is further north from Cherry and S. Division, and doesn't see their peak business until the evening when most of the homeless have checked into the shelters. But that's just my observation.

I suppose we will just keep seeing more places closing and moving until something is done about this situation, because those people on Facebook pretending that there is no correlation, or trying to intimidate this establishment for saying that it was the reason, or part of the reason, are just unhelpful in their own way.

 

 

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1 hour ago, EastownLeo said:

Yes, they are giving a valid reason for the failure of the business, at least to some, but the backlash is also there because they are giving a reason for closing while ignoring their own faults.  Past employees of the shop have come out and stated that the business did not close because of the location issue, but because of mis-management.  Passing the blame to the homeless is what is making the people mad.

1. Their hours were not consistent, they would often be closed then they said they would be open. They would close early with patrons inside and lock the doors and not let customers in.

2. The product declined, with the exit of Tory, the quality and selection dropped and the prices stayed the same. Quanitity was low, many times they would run out way before closing.

3. There are accusations, by past employees, that the "Vegan" donuts were not Vegan.

4. There are successful businesses such as Vertigo on that stretch along with Rockwells.

5. The Owner is said to be harsh and selfish, forcing the DAAC out of its location.

There are much better ways to handle issues with your business, not fixing the true issues of why you are failing and then blaming it on something on the outside seems a cop-out.

They never attempted wider distribution, never made moves to sell product at local markets or stores, they were lazy and then blamed it on the neighborhood.

The owner of the building Bob Dykstra, and his children were the ones running the shops. After Tory, two of his children were in charge of the Bandit Queen and Propaganda Donuts, probably the main reason they did not relocated is because they were getting free rent.

 

This is spot-on.  They were open for like 6 hours a day to begin with, and were known to run out of goods way too quickly and close for the day.  Only the trendiest of the trendy can get away with that kind of business model, and it's nearly impossible to sustain unless you try to scale the business after your initial flash-in-the-pan success.  I think Tory knew what he was doing when he left.  They were open for over 2 years and never tried to adapt.  So we shouldn't lament this business closing.

Now, that being said, I also don't appreciate all the Facebook warriors (who might walk down South Division once or twice a week) giving lectures to this business (that operated on South Division every day) on how to live amongst the homeless either.  Interesting that the most sympathetic reactions on Facebook came from people who identified as nearby residents (Someone suggested they get a food truck, which might not be a bad idea).  The list of failed businesses on South Division speaks for itself.

I guess my point is everyone on the internet just kinda needs to cool it a little.  Newsflash, I know.

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9 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

Yes, they are giving a valid reason for the failure of the business, at least to some, but the backlash is also there because they are giving a reason for closing while ignoring their own faults.  Past employees of the shop have come out and stated that the business did not close because of the location issue, but because of mis-management.  Passing the blame to the homeless is what is making the people mad.

1. Their hours were not consistent, they would often be closed then they said they would be open. They would close early with patrons inside and lock the doors and not let customers in.

2. The product declined, with the exit of Tory, the quality and selection dropped and the prices stayed the same. Quanitity was low, many times they would run out way before closing.

3. There are accusations, by past employees, that the "Vegan" donuts were not Vegan.

4. There are successful businesses such as Vertigo on that stretch along with Rockwells.

5. The Owner is said to be harsh and selfish, forcing the DAAC out of its location.

There are much better ways to handle issues with your business, not fixing the true issues of why you are failing and then blaming it on something on the outside seems a cop-out.

They never attempted wider distribution, never made moves to sell product at local markets or stores, they were lazy and then blamed it on the neighborhood.

The owner of the building Bob Dykstra, and his children were the ones running the shops. After Tory, two of his children were in charge of the Bandit Queen and Propaganda Donuts, probably the main reason they did not relocated is because they were getting free rent.

 

Wait a minute!! Past employees said the place was mismanaged??!! Well that's pretty unusual. :) 

As I understand it, DAAC never had a lease and was going month-to-month. 

Everyone mentions Vertigo (whose customers would walk through dung heaps to get to vintage records. I mean really, who buys vintage records?) and Republic/Rockwell which is mostly kept afloat by bachelorette parties. 

In the last year, South Division has lost 7 businesses/organizations. In the last year, 7 have opened and decided to give it a try. 

There are 20 vacant spaces for retailers to choose from. 

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4 hours ago, elcelc said:

Internet commenters: While there are many many aspects to running a business not mentioned in the infamous FB post, no business wants their customer experience to include, "almost stepped in people poop."  From what I've read now, it sounds like a combination of things led to the downfall.  I'm curious how many of these defenders of the homeless actually help the homeless? 

I agree.

Even a poorly-managed business can succeed if a solid customer base exists. Hipsters from Grand Rapids (or anywhere else) will suffer through poor service to get their bacon-infused-goat cheese and kale burger on an overpriced donut from whatever new food truck is in town. That being said, nobody wants to be harassed when all they want is to get lunch. I respect all people, but I fully understand why customers would feel uncomfortable on that stretch of Division.

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5 hours ago, thebeerqueer said:

I found this bit interesting; "The store is connected to Moosejaw's largest "High Altitude Lounge," a place where the company plans to host events and activities." I wonder how much space they have?

GVSUChris above said they were looking to pick up 5000 - 7000 sf. 

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48 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

I didn't realize that Craft Beer Cellar was a national chain. Opens this weekend:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/03/first_craft_beer_bottle_shop_c.html

 

I didn't either, I feel like when the first article came out a year or so ago it sounded real Mom and Pop. Either way, I'll be checking it out ... surprise. 

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1 hour ago, thebeerqueer said:

I didn't either, I feel like when the first article came out a year or so ago it sounded real Mom and Pop. Either way, I'll be checking it out ... surprise. 

It is a franchise, so the owners will be GR residents and will be trying to add elements specific to GR. So not quite a Mom and Pop, but a little more specialized than just an exact copy of the other locations.

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