The State of Downtown Grand Rapids Retail

[Pattmost20]

22 hours ago, x99 said:

They just put one of those in the Trust Building, too.. "Forty Pearl".  Oddly, I have never seen the place open during the day, or even the early evening.  I'm giving that one about 6 months.  Hopefully this place will actually have customers in it... 

I was in there a couple weeks ago. There were a few groups of people tasting wine. They were still working on getting their bar area set up to serve wine, mixed drinks, and appetizers.

[thebeerqueer]

The exit of a cornerstone of downtown retail: https://www.grbj.com/articles/91537-long-time-retailer-vacating-downtown

[mpchicago]

1 hour ago, thebeerqueer said:

The exit of a cornerstone of downtown retail: https://www.grbj.com/articles/91537-long-time-retailer-vacating-downtown

Ever time I see a new post to this thread it scares me to see what I will open up too.....Yes, sad news, but think we knew this was coming.  A feel like a few months back there was some discussion because a non-retail use was proposed for this space.  I think it was the law offices upstairs that wanted the space.   Not sure what became of that.

These guys may have been the oldest surviving retailer downtown.  Thanks, Amazon!  

Edited September 11, 2018 by mpchicago

[thebeerqueer]

16 hours ago, mpchicago said:

A feel like a few months back there was some discussion because a non-retail use was proposed for this space.  I think it was the law offices upstairs that wanted the space.   Not sure what became of that.

That's absolutely ringing a bell for me. Not sure what became of it either. 

[GRDadof3]

11 hours ago, thebeerqueer said:

That's absolutely ringing a bell for me. Not sure what became of it either. 

I think it's still on the back-burner. They probably released those plans for approval before the cake (Groskopfs leaving) was fully baked. 

[kwl]

Anyone have any info on how retail spaces in 20 Fulton, Morton, and 38 Commerce can lay dormant for years without anyone biting the bullet? 

[MJLO]

6 minutes ago, kwl said:

Anyone have any info on how retail spaces in 20 Fulton, Morton, and 38 Commerce can lay dormant for years without anyone biting the bullet? 

Not sure what you mean here by biting the bullet.   Are you asking why retailers haven't "taken one for the team" to fill the space?  Or are you asking why the developers haven't tried to incentivize the filling of the spaces?

[Kinkema]

36 minutes ago, kwl said:

Anyone have any info on how retail spaces in 20 Fulton, Morton, and 38 Commerce can lay dormant for years without anyone biting the bullet? 

When a few companies own all of the large retail spaces, they can set a high price on those space and refuse to rent for less. They would rather wait years for a tenant willing to pay high rent rather than rent it for less which would affect the market value of their other properties.

[EastownLeo]

Noticed a new restaurant called "Char"  next to Gita Pita on Jefferson.

Concept seemed odd.  Signage on the window said "Broth"   I can't find anything online.  Anyone seen it, been there?

[x99]

3 hours ago, Kinkema said:

When a few companies own all of the large retail spaces, they can set a high price on those space and refuse to rent for less. They would rather wait years for a tenant willing to pay high rent rather than rent it for less which would affect the market value of their other properties.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly.  Eventually, though, I suspect this strategy may not pan out how they want it to.  I think landlords with vacant spaces are going to end up wishing they had locked in leases on vacant space years ago.  We'll see.  Maybe they all have some sort of inside information about a huge influx of residential and office users ready to jump into the pool.  But I doubt it.  

[Kinkema]

22 minutes ago, x99 said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly.  Eventually, though, I suspect this strategy may not pan out how they want it to.  I think landlords with vacant spaces are going to end up wishing they had locked in leases on vacant space years ago.  We'll see.  Maybe they all have some sort of inside information about a huge influx of residential and office users ready to jump into the pool.  But I doubt it.  

Yeah, I don't know how well this works for them in a city like GR. It seems like it has just kind of left all of the large  retail space empty.  

[GRDadof3]

3 hours ago, Kinkema said:

Yeah, I don't know how well this works for them in a city like GR. It seems like it has just kind of left all of the large  retail space empty.  

A lot of the spaces are owned by Karl Chew, who leveraged the Low Income Housing Tax Credit pretty heavily to build all of his projects in Heartside. He has waiting lists for his apartments, and the tax credits helped subsidize his retail spaces to keep them at elevated rents. He was also one of the ones complaining to the city about homeless people overtaking the sidewalks in front of his buildings and having to clean up their feces all the time (he's not wrong). 

[ModSquad]

On 12/10/2018 at 5:44 PM, GRDadof3 said:

A lot of the spaces are owned by Karl Chew, who leveraged the Low Income Housing Tax Credit pretty heavily to build all of his projects in Heartside. He has waiting lists for his apartments, and the tax credits helped subsidize his retail spaces to keep them at elevated rents. He was also one of the ones complaining to the city about homeless people overtaking the sidewalks in front of his buildings and having to clean up their feces all the time (he's not wrong). 

Correct, 20 Fulton, along with several other commercial spots on South Division are owned by Chew.  Here is a little known piece of information as to why they can be left vacant for so long.  Zoning in all of these developments requires commercial on the main floor with residential then allowed in the upper floors.  Because this is a zoning requirement the structural aspects of the first floor retail, meaning the complete exterior, the foundation, the floors, etc are all included in what is called “eligible basis” of the tax credit portion of the project.  The only cost Chew has to absorb to lease it out is basically from the drywall in.  So, he literally has no $ in the game to maintain these units until he leases one to a commercial tenant. 

When we did the Uptown Village project on the corner of Wealthy and Diamond, it was structured the same way.  However, leasing up commercial space on Wealthy is a heck of a lot easier than 20 Fulton or South Division.

[discgrab21]

1 hour ago, KCLBADave said:

Correct, 20 Fulton, along with several other commercial spots on South Division are owned by Chew.  Here is a little known piece of information as to why they can be left vacant for so long.  Zoning in all of these developments requires commercial on the main floor with residential then allowed in the upper floors.  Because this is a zoning requirement the structural aspects of the first floor retail, meaning the complete exterior, the foundation, the floors, etc are all included in what is called “eligible basis” of the tax credit portion of the project.  The only cost Chew has to absorb to lease it out is basically from the drywall in.  So, he literally has no $ in the game to maintain these units until he leases one to a commercial tenant. 

When we did the Uptown Village project on the corner of Wealthy and Diamond, it was structured the same way.  However, leasing up commercial space on Wealthy is a heck of a lot easier than 20 Fulton or South Division.

So there is actually incentive to leave empty and blank store-fronts on new developments?  Seems like a policy that should be re-examined, like maybe a sunset on the tax benefits as applied to the retail space after so many months or years.

[ModSquad]

1 hour ago, discgrab21 said:

So there is actually incentive to leave empty and blank store-fronts on new developments?  Seems like a policy that should be re-examined, like maybe a sunset on the tax benefits as applied to the retail space after so many months or years.

There really is no tax benefit to the developer.  The only reason they have to do retail on the first floor is because of zoning regulations.  Where incentive comes in, is that they have no incentive to build because it is so incredibly hard to make retail work in these locations.  If the City would allow residential on these developments from the ground up, they would be finished and leased up quickly.

[discgrab21]

21 minutes ago, KCLBADave said:

There really is no tax benefit to the developer.  The only reason they have to do retail on the first floor is because of zoning regulations.  Where incentive comes in, is that they have no incentive to build because it is so incredibly hard to make retail work in these locations.  If the City would allow residential on these developments from the ground up, they would be finished and leased up quickly.

Gotcha,  thanks for clarifying

[GR_Urbanist]

The Grand Rapids Drive have vacated their office on the first floor of the Peck building.

Personally glad to see this as it is a prominent spot, and the office for a minor league basketball team just wasn't the best fit for a place that really should only be retail or a restaurant.

[GR_Urbanist]

On 4/20/2019 at 7:48 PM, GR_Urbanist said:

The Grand Rapids Drive have vacated their office on the first floor of the Peck building.

Personally glad to see this as it is a prominent spot, and the office for a minor league basketball team just wasn't the best fit for a place that really should only be retail or a restaurant.

News from the future to myself, that space is now occupied by a software developer company called Bravo LT.

So no retail or eatery.

 

Also a little down Monroe Center, a "bridal" shop of some sort is coming to the old Groskopf's space.

[mpchicago]

The DDA is giving rent support to 2 new downtown restaurants and one new shop through its retail innovation and incubation grant.   https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2019/12/new-wine-bar-caribbean-restaurant-gift-shop-in-downtown-grand-rapids-get-rent-support.html

- GRNoir Wine & Jazz will open in the ground floor space of the new SIBSCO apartment building at 35 D. Division.    https://www.facebook.com/grnoirwinebar/

- Art Caribbean Fusion Cuisine will share space with the Grand Central Market at 57 Monroe Center.

- Oh, Hello Co, a gift shop specializing in products by Grand Rapids- based artists at 40 Monroe Center.   https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/now-open-oh-hello-touts-grand-rapids-gifts-artists/

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by mpchicago

[TheLonesomeHobo]

https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/gr-creates-position-to-attract-destination-retail/

[jthrasher]

16 hours ago, TheLonesomeHobo said:

https://www.woodtv.com/news/grand-rapids/gr-creates-position-to-attract-destination-retail/

I can't like this enough!  Richard has been a friend for a long time and I can't wait to see what this brings to downtown.   It's awesome to see the city acknowledging downtown retail needs help and creating this position. 

[GRDadof3]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:10 PM, jthrasher said:

I can't like this enough!  Richard has been a friend for a long time and I can't wait to see what this brings to downtown.   It's awesome to see the city acknowledging downtown retail needs help and creating this position. 

I feel like one year is not long enough though to "retain" and attract retailers. Perhaps they plan to extend it beyond the study period. 

[jthrasher]

14 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I feel like one year is not long enough though to "retain" and attract retailers. Perhaps they plan to extend it beyond the study period. 

It's only a year position?  I missed that part.  Yeah, that's probably not long enough but it's a step in the right direction?  Hopefully not one step forward but 3 steps back when it's done though.  

[GRDadof3]

On 1/31/2020 at 9:04 AM, jthrasher said:

It's only a year position?  I missed that part.  Yeah, that's probably not long enough but it's a step in the right direction?  Hopefully not one step forward but 3 steps back when it's done though.  

It gives more details in this article:

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2020/01/new-retail-specialist-wants-to-lure-more-businesses-to-grand-rapids.html

There will be a market study done first. 

[mpchicago]

 

" The Finnley" a micro-hotel is planned for 65 Monroe Center, kitty-corner from where RDV plans a 32 unit boutique hotel at the Morton.    The DDA just approved a small grant for the project.  Looks like only minor improvement to the exterior mainly involving the stairs, sidewalk and light-well along Ionia.   The building could use a new skin all together. 

https://mibiz.com/sections/real-estate-development/developer-plans-micro-hotel-on-monroe-center