The State of Downtown Grand Rapids Retail

[joeDowntown]

From Knape's blog:

The heART of Downtown includes special promotions at select downtown merchants between Thursday and Oct. 20.

Money raised through he program will go to the Student Advancement Foundation's "Tools for Learning. Tools for Life" campaign, earmarking the money for GRPS visual art supplies. The Student Advancement Foundation is a non-profit organization supporting the youth of GRPS.

From the press release:

The current GRPS budget allocates $1.50 per student for art supplies.

"That barely buys a box of crayons," said GRDA executive director Sharon Evoy. "If Grand Rapids is willing to invest to the level it has in the new art museum, that says we believe in the importance of art in our community. Our downtown merchants are local business owners who have come together through The heART of Downtown to demonstrate how important it is for the very youngest members of our community to draw, paint and experience the joy of art."

The promotion clearly is coming together at the last minute with many merchants still unsure about what they'll be doing.

A great cause and all but... isn't the mission of the Downtown Alliance (as explained to me in great detail) to support downtown businesses?

For an association that can't even afford banners, or the antiquated posts that hold them, maybe the DA needs to hold a fundraising event for themselves. I'll buy 4 boxes of crayons and we can have a "design charette" to scrawl out how cool downtown is. Since "Keep it a Secret" is doing such a spectacular job of bringing people to downtown retailers, I'm thinking this endeavor might scrape up 10 or 12 boxes of crayons between now and the 20th. Whoop!

This is a bitter message to the Downtown Alliance: maybe you should scrawl out your resume in burnt sienna crayon so you can get a different job. In fact, if you dissolve the Alliance due to lack of "a better reason", I will personally donate 500 boxes of crayons to GRPS.

[Clearly annoyed about the lack of this cities ability to face reality]

Joe

[Prankster]

But remember, they do not seem to have a problem in hitting up enthusiastic downtown backers for money. Don't say anything bad about the KIAS campaign, but we would love you if you would have a fundraiser to help us get more money.

[joeDowntown]

It seems completely backwards to me that an organization that is supposed to be helping the struggling retailers, who themselves said they did not have the resources to work outside of the few projects they have (including, *gasp*, recruiting retailers, or cleaning up window fronts of empty buildings), has the time and resources (and cajone's) to ask downtown businesses to dip into their pockets to support the schools.

I think the Downtown Alliance has its own problems. It's called Monroe Center. Focus on that for a while.

Joe

[Veloise]

It seems completely backwards to me that an organization ... who themselves said they did not have the resources to work outside of the few projects they have (including, *gasp*, recruiting retailers, or cleaning up window fronts of empty buildings)...

Nor accepting the assistance of several knowledgeable and experienced volunteers who proffered help.

(Folks at our taskforce meeting saw my offer of sponsorship assistance. My phone has yet to ring.)

[wingbert]

From Knape's blog:

A great cause and all but... isn't the mission of the Downtown Alliance (as explained to me in great detail) to support downtown businesses?

For an association that can't even afford banners, or the antiquated posts that hold them, maybe the DA needs to hold a fundraising event for themselves. I'll buy 4 boxes of crayons and we can have a "design charette" to scrawl out how cool downtown is. Since "Keep it a Secret" is doing such a spectacular job of bringing people to downtown retailers, I'm thinking this endeavor might scrape up 10 or 12 boxes of crayons between now and the 20th. Whoop!

This is a bitter message to the Downtown Alliance: maybe you should scrawl out your resume in burnt sienna crayon so you can get a different job. In fact, if you dissolve the Alliance due to lack of "a better reason", I will personally donate 500 boxes of crayons to GRPS.

[Clearly annoyed about the lack of this cities ability to face reality]

Joe

How many different entities exactly are there promoting the city of Grand Rapids? I get a tad confused about who is doing what amongst the Downtown Alliance, The DDA, The Chamber of Commerce, The Right Place, The City of GR itself, The Convention and Visitors Bureau... who am I missing?

My question is, how well do they all work together? I know all these groups can point to their own particular mission statement as a way of distinguishing themselves from the others, but isn't the gist the same? Don't they all want to promote Grand Rapids as a great place to live, work and visit? Couldn't some efficiencies be driven into the system if some of the effort was a little more coordinated?

[Veloise]

How many different entities exactly are there promoting the city of Grand Rapids? I get a tad confused about who is doing what amongst the Downtown Alliance, The DDA, The Chamber of Commerce, The Right Place, The City of GR itself, The Convention and Visitors Bureau... who am I missing? ...

West Michigan Tourist Assn. Office in Centerpointe upstairs above a store. (They're the ones with the beautiful billboards showing a sunset on a pier and the ped bridge all lit up at twilight.)

http://www.wmta.org/

Edited October 4, 2007 by Veloise

[Veloise]

Here are some pics of DDA banners in situ in a couple of small towns.

Delphi, Indiana (pop about 3,000)

Cedar Springs, Mich (pop about 3,000)

The funky shape is a set of long johns to celebrate the Red Flannel festival.

L@@K! Here's Northville's street banner ordinance! Page 7 explains that the organizations pay for the banners.

http://www.ci.northville.mi.us/ReferenceDe...annerPolicy.pdf

Edited October 4, 2007 by Veloise

[joeDowntown]

Even Jade Pigs EGR development does a great job with banners. The city can't muster anything up? But alas, let's gather crayons and neglect our retailers.

After our meeting with the Downtown Alliance, I realize that there is no spark or imagination. Passion and ingenuity also seem to be lacking. I say we just let mediocrity inherit the city.

Joe

[Rizzo]

Even Jade Pigs EGR development does a great job with banners. The city can't muster anything up? But alas, let's gather crayons and neglect our retailers.

After our meeting with the Downtown Alliance, I realize that there is no spark or imagination. Passion and ingenuity also seem to be lacking. I say we just let mediocrity inherit the city.

Joe

The Task Force met with the Downtown Alliance already? No spark, imagination, or passion? Although, I don't have first hand knowledge of the event, is it really mediocrity or just the lack of coordination? More of "We have a goal, but how to we achieve it?"

Edited October 4, 2007 by Rizzo

[Veloise]

The Task Force met with the Downtown Alliance already? No spark, imagination, or passion? Although, I don't have first hand knowledge of the event, is it really mediocrity or just the lack of coordination? More of "We have a goal, but how to we achieve it?"

Yep, back in June.

[joeDowntown]

I think nobody talked about the meeting because nothing got accomplished and we all walked out deflated.

Flowers and trash. That is the Downtown Alliances main goal. You want retail recuitment? Go somewhere else! You want people who think retail is an integral piece of downtown's image and vibrance? Go somewhere else! You want long vacant window fronts filled with store displays? Go somewhere else! You want people who want to shake up the city and do something innovative? ...

"The only thing we don't have downtown that makes me drive to the 'burbs is a place that sells fresh meat, and a hardware store" (actual quote).

Thud.

The Task Force met with the Downtown Alliance already? No spark, imagination, or passion? Although, I don't have first hand knowledge of the event, is it really mediocrity or just the lack of coordination? More of "We have a goal, but how to we achieve it?"

[Veloise]

I think nobody talked about the meeting because nothing got accomplished and we all walked out deflated.

Flowers and trash. That is the Downtown Alliances main goal. You want retail recuitment? Go somewhere else! You want people who think retail is an integral piece of downtown's image and vibrance? Go somewhere else! You want long vacant window fronts filled with store displays? Go somewhere else! You want people who want to shake up the city and do something innovative? ...

"The only thing we don't have downtown in order for me to drive to the 'burbs is a place that sells fresh meat, and a hardware store" (actual quote).

Thud.

We (retail task forcers) offered to help clean up, decorate, and market the empty storefronts. This was met with underhwleming enthusiasm, and we got a lot of the "I've been in DT retail 30 years" type of reply.

My allusion above: I have some experience landing sponsorships; going to companies that have assets/product, and asking for same. And getting it. I offered sponsorship help to the DTA. (Slid over my business card, "let me help.")

As stated, that was back in June.

[torgo]

"The only thing we don't have downtown that makes me drive to the 'burbs is a place that sells fresh meat, and a hardware store" (actual quote).

Thud.

Oy. So what's wrong with having two of the same type of store? Competition, it does wonders...Maybe they should give that a whirl.

I thought the downtown improvement district were the folks concerning themselves with trash and flowers. (they have some kind of board, don't they?)

I don't think those types of banners would be a good fit DT. Too small-towny IMHO

Edited October 4, 2007 by torgo

[GRDadof3]

I think nobody talked about the meeting because nothing got accomplished and we all walked out deflated.

Flowers and trash. That is the Downtown Alliances main goal. You want retail recuitment? Go somewhere else! You want people who think retail is an integral piece of downtown's image and vibrance? Go somewhere else! You want long vacant window fronts filled with store displays? Go somewhere else! You want people who want to shake up the city and do something innovative? ...

"The only thing we don't have downtown that makes me drive to the 'burbs is a place that sells fresh meat, and a hardware store" (actual quote).

Thud.

Hey, but we know how many tons of trash the DA hauls out of downtown every year. Oh wait, I forgot already.

Definitely if the DA is solely commissioned to keep the streets clean and the flower and plants watered, they are doing stupendously.

[Rizzo]

According to their site they do a whole bunch of advocacy. They get high marks from that Boston writer.

Maybe the meeting was underwhelming, because they probably pay people to clean up and beautify already. They may also pay people to advise their committees and councils -- which probably already proposed much of what the task force is proposing. On the other hand, this is Grand Rapids so I can completely believe that everyone isn't diverting from the same just to keep the city "in character." In the next decade that will become evident.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Rizzo

[GRDadof3]

According to their site they do a whole bunch of advocacy. They get high marks from that Boston writer.

Maybe the meeting was underwhelming, because they probably pay people to clean up and beautify already. They may also pay people to advise their committees and councils -- which probably already proposed much of what the task force is proposing. On the other hand, this is Grand Rapids so I can completely believe that everyone isn't diverting from the same just to keep the city "in character." In the next decade that will become evident.

No, it was more the sense of "defeatism" and "that's not really our job" that was bothersome. Statements like "we'll be OK with our properties sitting vacant for 10 - 15 years if that's what we have to do", "The building is paid for and the taxes aren't that much", and "retailers will only locate downtown if the traffic is here, which won't come until/if there are enough residents downtown (in 10 or more years)".

"Why don't you guys at UrbanPlanet work on bringing more exposure to downtown and stop criticizing us". As if 2000+ topics and 70,000+ replies and thousands of photos of downtown and 350,000 page views a year has not gotten downtown any exposure. Yes, some negative, but the overwhelmingly majority has been positive (cheerleading even).

Don't mean to jam pile on this, but Joe is picking at a scab.

Let's just say I am glad that the DDA has decided to take this torch and hopefully get some fruitful results. Let's hope that Jay doesn't put up with the same down-n-out attitude.

[Rizzo]

http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1995/im950719.html

[PR-15]

http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1995/im950719.html

It's as if Delores has been in GR listening to every single issue we face here...fascinating read.

I would add that the DA probably spends 80-90% of it's budget on it's primary purpose which is the beautification of the DID, planting flowers, rubbish removal and sweeping the streets. They get all A's on my scorecard in regard to those efforts. One would be hard-pressed to find a cleaner downtown district anywhere in the country.

However, addressing the wish lists culled from meetings with downtown merchants within the DID requires money...and gads of it at that. The DA will need to find extensive new revenue streams to potently employ any strategy in regard to retail recruitment and sustainable marketing efforts that promote downtown.

It will be impossible to get traction in any direction without targeted and purposeful funding.

[Veloise]

...

I don't think those types of banners would be a good fit DT. Too small-towny IMHO

No one is suggesting that we need basement woodshop plywood cutouts of (insert icon here) painted red and hanging from the lightpoles.

If you re-look at the bank photo, there is a professional DDA-style banner facing the lens. The green and red banners are typical of what's available from a banner place (if limited in color choice; cheaper that way). The ones from Indiana are a stock item with the village name dropped on.

Go look at the new banners out front of Fountain Street Church with the new slogan and logos. They are simply stunning. The ones on Monroe across from DVP aren't bad.

And watch this space...photoshopping is coming.

ETA Here's a page from a ready-to-print selection available just down 131. If you don't want Your City's Name Here uniformity with the next burg over, seems like it would be possible to have a talented graphic artist design something unique. (I know there's at least one such person who has the City's "sunny Calder" logo probably etched on his eyeballs from using it so much.)

http://www.kalamazoobanner.com/banners/rtp/index.php

Edited October 5, 2007 by Veloise

[joeDowntown]

While I'll agree with you on some of the points, here is the frustration.

You had 6-8 UP members walk into a meeting with the Downtown Alliance. At first, they thought we'd throw "Keep it a Secret" in their face (talk about gads of money). We didn't, though I would have loved to. We then listened to the Grand Poohbah of downtown real estate talk about the fact that "I get calls several times a week with someone with some crazy idea of a store they would like to open, just because they went to Chicago or some other big city over the weekend. I tell them it won't work here, don't waste your money". I am paraphrasing here, but this is the truth about these committees. They do nothing but stroke their own ego.

I'll tell you, I love how clean GR is, but I was in San Francisco last weekend, and it has a *WILDLY* vibrant downtown. It is also not the cleanest city I have ever seen. I wish we had their problem and our only gripe was we needed a volunteer trash pickup committee.

These people are so embedded in the thoughts of what can't be done, they don't think about what *CAN* be done. Where are the street vendors? We asked, they didn't know. We told them we would personally help them take more action and leverage Urban Planet (6-8 people at a table throwing down the gauntlet, with a large number of people here that would back us up). Their answer. Nothing (as Veloise pointed out).

If I were a retailer or bar owner downtown, I would be so livid about the inactivity of groups like the Downtown Alliance, I would pack up shop and head for Cherry, where the neighborhood has banded together to "get it done".

I know plenty of people from the city read this forum. Step up. Lead by example and me (and many others) will do whatever it takes to help.

I'd bet anybody a dinner at a fine downtown establishment that nobody will step up.

Quit lurking people. Come out, prove me wrong. I'm throwing down the second gauntlet.

Joe

It's as if Delores has been in GR listening to every single issue we face here...fascinating read.

I would add that the DA probably spends 80-90% of it's budget on it's primary purpose which is the beautification of the DID, planting flowers, rubbish removal and sweeping the streets. They get all A's on my scorecard in regard to those efforts. One would be hard-pressed to find a cleaner downtown district anywhere in the country.

However, addressing the wish lists culled from meetings with downtown merchants within the DID requires money...and gads of it at that. The DA will need to find extensive new revenue streams to potently employ any strategy in regard to retail recruitment and sustainable marketing efforts that promote downtown.

It will be impossible to get traction in any direction without targeted and purposeful funding.

[Rizzo]

While I'll agree with you on some of the points, here is the frustration.

You had 6-8 UP members walk into a meeting with the Downtown Alliance. At first, they thought we'd throw "Keep it a Secret" in their face (talk about gads of money). We didn't, though I would have loved to. We then listened to the Grand Poohbah of downtown real estate talk about the fact that "I get calls several times a week with someone with some crazy idea of a store they would like to open, just because they went to Chicago or some other big city over the weekend. I tell them it won't work here, don't waste your money". I am paraphrasing here, but this is the truth about these committees. They do nothing but stroke their own ego.

I'll tell you, I love how clean GR is, but I was in San Francisco last weekend, and it has a *WILDLY* vibrant downtown. It is also not the cleanest city I have ever seen. I wish we had their problem and our only gripe was we needed a volunteer trash pickup committee.

These people are so embedded in the thoughts of what can't be done, they don't think about what *CAN* be done. Where are the street vendors? We asked, they didn't know. We told them we would personally help them take more action and leverage Urban Planet (6-8 people at a table throwing down the gauntlet, with a large number of people here that would back us up). Their answer. Nothing (as Veloise pointed out).

If I were a retailer or bar owner downtown, I would be so livid about the inactivity of groups like the Downtown Alliance, I would pack up shop and head for Cherry, where the neighborhood has banded together to "get it done".

I know plenty of people from the city read this forum. Step up. Lead by example and me (and many others) will do whatever it takes to help.

I'd bet anybody a dinner at a fine downtown establishment that nobody will step up.

Quit lurking people. Come out, prove me wrong. I'm throwing down the second gauntlet.

Joe

Didn't The GRBJ recently run a editorial voicing this same kind of frustration?

From your writing I got the idea these representatives feel like their being arm chaired? No matter how good the ideas and genuine folks are... Joe, did you guys go in as "Urban Planet"?

Edited October 5, 2007 by Rizzo

[Veloise]

EXISTING

PROPOSED

Rizzo, we did not keep it a secret...but we also had selections from each of our respective CVs indicating our interest and expertise in DT retail. Did not come in loaded for bear with a selection of wack slogans and photoshopped billboards.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Veloise

[joeDowntown]

They knew we were from Urban Planet, but we went in as a concerned group of citizens under the guise of the Downtown Retail Taskforce. They knew who we are, where we came from and that we unforgiving of our negativity towards their efforts. So, yes and no.

Didn't The GRBJ recently run a editorial voicing this same kind of frustration?

From your writing I got the idea these representatives feel like their being arm chaired? No matter how good the ideas and genuine folks are... Joe, did you guys go in as "Urban Planet"?

[GRDadof3]

Didn't The GRBJ recently run a editorial voicing this same kind of frustration?

From your writing I got the idea these representatives feel like their being arm chaired? No matter how good the ideas and genuine folks are... Joe, did you guys go in as "Urban Planet"?

Yes. And we were willing to step up and help get things done. "Lack of money" was the answer. Does it cost money to make sure that every property that is vacant on Monroe Center is listed on CARWM?

PR-15, Admittedly, the DA was probably the wrong place to go or the wrong vehicle to get things done. But then why are they being charged with the KIAS campaign? As Joe mentioned, you don't have to go to Traverse City or Madison, WI to see success. Look at Cherry/Lake/Diamond. If I were a retailer looking at locating downtown, and the DA was the representatives I was introduced to to facilitate the process, I'd have serious reservations.

[Rizzo]

Yes. And we were willing to step up and help get things done. "Lack of money" was the answer. Does it cost money to make sure that every property that is vacant on Monroe Center is listed on CARWM?

PR-15, Admittedly, the DA was probably the wrong place to go or the wrong vehicle to get things done. But then why are they being charged with the KIAS campaign? As Joe mentioned, you don't have to go to Traverse City or Madison, WI to see success. Look at Cherry/Lake/Diamond. If I were a retailer looking at locating downtown, and the DA was the representatives I was introduced to to facilitate the process, I'd have serious reservations.

If it was the wrong place to go, I don't think you'd be able to find another more appropriate place. The DA says its advocating for the interests of downtown.

Edited October 5, 2007 by Rizzo