The State of Downtown Grand Rapids Retail

[GRDadof3]

Thanks!

[GRDadof3]

Out walking during AP and was struck by the transformation of Jefferson and Fulton. Having worked in this neighborhood just a few years ago when it was deader than a doornail...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[arcturus]

That bike rack is pulled in the winter, right?

[Ted]

Out walking during AP and was struck by the transformation of Jefferson and Fulton. Having worked in this neighborhood just a few years ago when it was deader than a doornail...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 Jefferson brought to you by Lott3Metz. Love that Gita Pita.

[GR_Urbanist]

I really love that stretch now, especially in the evening when everything is lit up. My favorite is seeing the guys in the tobacco shop playing poker by the front window. That's pretty cool!

 

Now if only the opposite side of Fulton can get something similar.

[mpchicago]

I really love that stretch now, especially in the evening when everything is lit up. My favorite is seeing the guys in the tobacco shop playing poker by the front window. That's pretty cool!

 

Now if only the opposite side of Fulton can get something similar.

I was thinking recently that the Park Congo Church parking lot is a wast of space.  It would be nice to see a 3 to 6 story apartment or condo building with street level retail along Fulton between Park Place and Ransom.  And on Park Place, to see row houses facing Vets Park.  There used to be retail storefronts along Fulton, but Park Congo tore them down for more parking.  Maybe someday.

Edited October 15, 2015 by mpchicago

[GVSUChris]

I was thinking recently that the Park Congo Church parking lot is a wast of space.  It would be nice to see a 3 to 6 story apartment or condo building with street level retail along Fulton between Park Place and Ransom.  And on Park Place, to see row houses facing Vets Park.  There used to be retail storefronts along Fulton, but Park Congo tore them down for more parking.  Maybe someday.

It's funny you mention that. I've always said if I was the minister at Park Church I would be really encouraging the congregation to sell that lot OR to work with a developer to do a great mixed use concept there...and then incorporate parking within it or something. I work at a robust church in Evanston that has zero parking and we do just fine (and it's not because people are taking transportation to get here), so it'd be nice to see some churches in GR give up a little too for the betterment of their neighborhoods.

[GR_Urbanist]

From what I remember they bought the old Purple East building that stood at the corner, back around 2000, with a story that they made up that they were going to develop it into a "youth center". They really just wanted it to expand their parking lot, but knew that they might run into opposition. Magically they found the building "unfit" for that use and quickly tore it down and paved it over.

 

But yeah, if you look at old aerial photos of that block, it was all buildings 60 years ago. Little by little they bought up every building and tore them down for their parking lot.

[GRDadof3]

 

 

 

From what I remember they bought the old Purple East building that stood at the corner, back around 2000, with a story that they made up that they were going to develop it into a "youth center". They really just wanted it to expand their parking lot, but knew that they might run into opposition. Magically they found the building "unfit" for that use and quickly tore it down and paved it over.

 

But yeah, if you look at old aerial photos of that block, it was all buildings 60 years ago. Little by little they bought up every building and tore them down for their parking lot.

 

And they pay NO taxes on all that parking lot land.

Speaking of Jefferson, looks like Third Coast Development has acquired 25 Jefferson, the taller building in that block:

http://mibiz.com/item/22974-third-coast-purchases-25-jefferson-in-grand-rapids,-plans-conversion-to-apartments

 

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by GRDadof3

[Allison Slater]

... so it'd be nice to see some churches in GR give up a little too for the betterment of their neighborhoods.

I've heard there's a new pastor/minister/whatever at the church in the old theater in Eastown.  Apparently he went around to several local businesses in the area, including the LGBT network, looking how to be better integrated into the community.  One of the things I heard was opening up their parking lot for non-church uses outside of church hours.  Progress...

[x99]

From what I remember they bought the old Purple East building that stood at the corner, back around 2000, with a story that they made up that they were going to develop it into a "youth center". They really just wanted it to expand their parking lot, but knew that they might run into opposition. Magically they found the building "unfit" for that use and quickly tore it down and paved it over.

 

You might be able to do a low-height ramp with a zero-cost leaseback of the spaces to Park, which would make the acquisition cost a bit more reasonable.  Else, they lease out those spaces most of the week and make money from them, which significantly impacts anyone's ability to do a cost-effective low-rise project there, as it does everywhere else in the city.  Now, if you kill off the parking profits, you just might kill off the parking lots... 

As for the church parking lot in Eastown... that would be awesome of them to do that, even if they charge a nominal fee to use it.  

[GR_Urbanist]

The Local Epicurean is apparently moving from its Heartside location. From what I can gather, they are moving back to Eastown(?). Ironic as it is where they originally were located. Not surprising because Division/Heartside is fast becoming a loser as a retail corridor.

Edited October 25, 2015 by GR_Urbanist

[MJLO]

The Local Epicurean is apparently moving from its Heartside location. From what I can gather, they are moving back to Eastown(?). Ironic as it is where they originally were located. Not surprising because Division/Heartside is fast becoming a loser as a retail corridor.

Are we assuming this is because all of the shelters make it uncomfortable for prospective retail customers to be in that area still?

[joeDowntown]

Perfect example of why this type of retail will not work with the current saturation of homeless shelters. My work does quarterly outings to do something creative, outside our field (app development). We took 25 people to Local Epicurean for a pasta making class. Great atmosphere, awesome vibe. Until we watch a full on drunken street brawl - with one of the people falling and breaking their arm, police pursuit, etc. I asked the person if this was a rare incident and he said "it happens often". I park in the area and am used to it, but sorry, no way this type of business (which I assume the demographic would be middle-aged, affluent foodies) is going to survive in the area. 

I'm glad to see they are moving and not going out of business. I was bummed when this happened as it seems this is going to continue to be common for the foreseeable future. 

I honestly think the best bet for Division would be bars, with big bouncers out front supplemented by an active police presence.

Joe

[arcturus]

Someone tell the owner of Chicken Coop a space is open.

[mpchicago]

They are moving back to Eastown.  It's my understanding they bought the building(s) from Ethel all the way to the windmill where they originally were.  I was told they considered the downtown market before it opened, but found that when they did the math it made no sense.  I was also told a combination of parking issues (short meter time/cost of meters/ inability of people to walk a few blocks) perceptions and realities of homeless/crime in area, and what was described as the city's general lack of support for business in the area were reasons for the move. It really is an awesome concept, and it's too bad they could not find a suitable downtown spot.  Eastown's win, downtown's loss.

[x99]

They are moving back to Eastown.  It's my understanding they bought the building(s) from Ethel all the way to the windmill where they originally were.  I was told they considered the downtown market before it opened, but found that when they did the math it made no sense.  I was also told a combination of parking issues (short meter time/cost of meters/ inability of people to walk a few blocks) perceptions and realities of homeless/crime in area, and what was described as the city's general lack of support for business in the area were reasons for the move. It really is an awesome concept, and it's too bad they could not find a suitable downtown spot.  Eastown's win, downtown's loss.

Not surprising at all.  Division could be a crown jewel, but with Degage there, it's a guaranteed loser forever.  They exercise zero control over the drunken hordes outside of their facility.  I hate, hate, *hate* even driving between Fulton and Wealthy.  I don't care if you're rich or poor or homeless or not, but when you're wandering around drunk and high in the street, I fear for my personal safety, period.  

I've basically thrown in the towel on downtown or near-downtown retail.  It flat out isn't going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.  

[ctpgr34]

A little off topic, but I went out with a small group on Saturday and was shocked by the amount of homeless people on the eastside of Ionia (by BW3).  It really made that strip feel unsafe and unappealing.

[MJLO]

I haven't really been bothered by the majority of the homeless. The panhandlers are beggers are out of control, but they don't represent the majority of them.

[EastownLeo]

Bandit Queen is Closing.  Seems like that area can't hold them.

[getemngo]

Well, one restaurant leaving the area could be a fluke. Two is a sign of something bigger.

Anybody have a source on The Local Epicurean moving? There's no news stories about it, and nothing on their website, Facebook, or Twitter.

Edited October 29, 2015 by getemngo

[GR_Urbanist]

Well, one restaurant leaving the area could be a fluke. Two is a sign of something bigger.

Anybody have a source on The Local Epicurean moving? There's no news stories about it, and nothing on their website, Facebook, or Twitter.

I had originally saw a "moving sale" sign in their window. From there I went to their Facebook page and saw a comment wondering when they were going to make the move to Eastown.

[GRDadof3]

Well, one restaurant leaving the area could be a fluke. Two is a sign of something bigger.

Anybody have a source on The Local Epicurean moving? There's no news stories about it, and nothing on their website, Facebook, or Twitter.

It's a sign that they don't get enough walk-in traffic. Probably a few shit-ins on the front stoop once in a while.

[GRCentro]

I had originally saw a "moving sale" sign in their window. From there I went to their Facebook page and saw a comment wondering when they were going to make the move to Eastown.

I heard they're expanding. Lots of online business and the current shop doesn't have adequate space for shipping and processing.

[ctpgr34]

I heard there will be a business moving out of their space on Monroe Center soon.  Business moving out of downtown, not out of business.