Norfolk Courts Complex Progress

[vdogg]

The City Council informally approved Tuesday a plan to build a new courthouse complex in two phases, one that will get new courtrooms up and running sooner than originally planned and, officials hope, save the city millions of dollars. Assistant City Stanley A. Stein said the city will advertise next month for proposals to design the first phase and hopes to begin design work this summer.

The first phase could be open in late 2009; there's no estimate on when the second phase would open.

The city had planned to build an 11-story building on the site of the General District Court building.

Link

[lil-bear]

Looks like a good plan to me!

I would have liked the 11 floor court building better, but this looks like it can be just as good!

[Sky06]

Looks like a good plan to me!

I would have liked the 11 floor court building better, but this looks like it can be just as good!

Note that the graphic refers to a future office tower at the corner of St. Paul's and Waterside. Does anyone know about this?

Wait, I'm confused. I thought at first it was the Snyder lot, but I see it's on opposite side of St. Pauls. But Main Street does not run across St. Paul's. Is this all being redone? Maybe I should read the article.

[rusthebuss]

We need a new city hall! I don't understand why they couldn't add the city hall to the second phase of the court complex. That way they could share the security from the courts for the city employees!

[gosscj]

Yeah, rus. That city hall badly needs replacing, or at least renovation like Richmond's went through recently. I too am interested in the apparent extension of Main St. I wonder if this means a general rethinking of the street pattern east of St. Paul's - isn't the old grid pretty mangled over there?

[lil-bear]

If i am thinking correctly, Main Street used to be much longer than it is now. The road on the opposite side of city hall is also Main Street. I was severed when they built the civic complex in the 60s.

[vdogg]

Wait, I'm confused. I thought at first it was the Snyder lot, but I see it's on opposite side of St. Pauls. But Main Street does not run across St. Paul's. Is this all being redone? Maybe I should read the article.

Omg! I thought that was the Snyder lot too but it's not. It looks like they're cutting the current property in half by building the courts complex on the city hall side of the lot and reserving the waterside portion for a new office tower. Very interesting. It seems like something may even be in the works because they've already decided on the makeup of that portion "parking garage with retail/office tower". We'll have to watch this one closely.

If i am thinking correctly, Main Street used to be much longer than it is now. The road on the opposite side of city hall is also Main Street. I was severed when they built the civic complex in the 60s.

Well it definately looks like they're reconnecting that portion of the road. I think Norfolks getting desperate to free up suitable land for more office space downtown.

[ace707]

Omg! I thought that was the Snyder lot too but it's not. It looks like they're cutting the current property in half by building the courts complex on the city hall side of the lot and reserving the waterside portion for a new office tower. Very interesting. It seems like something may even be in the works because they've already decided on the makeup of that portion "parking garage with retail/office tower". We'll have to watch this one closely.

That proposal has always existed ever since the city wanted to build a new city court. I did post several posts about that office tower in a short discussion with Rus I think a while back. It's in one of the threads here, most likely in the old "Norfolk development" thread. You can go searching for it. If not, I'll try to find it when I have alot of time because there have been tons of new posts and threads since then.

[vdogg]

That proposal has always existed ever since the city wanted to build a new city court. I did post several posts about that office tower in a short discussion with Rus I think a while back. It's in one of the threads here, most likely in the old "Norfolk development" thread. You can go searching for it. If not, I'll try to find it when I have alot of time because there have been tons of new posts and threads since then.

Hmm... I probably thought you were referring to Snyder lot then because I don't remember that ever being officially planned for. I know there's been a lot of conjecture on this site about the possibility of it but I never knew the city was actually thinking of it.

[ace707]

Hmm... I probably thought you were referring to Snyder lot then because I don't remember that ever being officially planned for. I know there's been a lot of conjecture on this site about the possibility of it but I never knew the city was actually thinking of it.

I was watching "council update" one night in which Mayor Fraim was the one being interviewed. He had talked about the new courts building and how the land closer to Waterside Dr. in which part of the Circuit court and a parking lot currently sit would be a future site of an office tower if and when they get the new court building. I briefly tried to find the posts but it might take a while since I currently don't have too much time. But I'll be sure to look for it whenever I can and re-post it if someone doesn't find it before I do.

[ace707]

On page 23 of the Norfolk Development 2 roughly 3/4 down, I have a brief mention of the office tower in relation to the Courts building.

[vdogg]

link

Ok, I see what you're talking about now. They even made a vague mention of it in that newspaper article. I wonder how far they've progressed on that? They may wish to get Snyder lot uder way before they proceed with this land.

[gosscj]

Since this office tower will be on the site of the current General District Court building (I think that's the one) it will be at least late 2009, when the courts move to their temporary home at the new Juvenile and Domestic Courts building and the old GDC is torn down, before construction can begin - and it will probably be longer than that.

[Glassoul]

Told you they were planning for the site at the corner of St. Paul's and Waterside to be a huge office tower!

The current city hall sits in the middle of Main Street, or rather where it used to run through, so it looks like in a round about way, they are reconnecting the two halves of main street together.

[vdogg]

Told you they were planning for the site at the corner of St. Paul's and Waterside to be a huge office tower!

Even better:

Once the second phase is open, the Juvenile and Domestic Relations Courts would move to the phase one building from its current location across City Hall Avenue from the courts complex.

"It's a good plan," said Mayor Paul Fraim, who previewed it Monday to Circuit Judges Everett A. Martin Jr., Charles E. Poston and Charles D. Griffith Jr.

And once that's completed maybe we can tear down that grotesque structure that they're currently in and build another tower. This seems like pretty sound planning anyway you look at it.

[ace707]

I finally found the post where I originally mentioned/talked about the office tower for the Northeast corner of Waterside Dr. and St. Paul's Blvd. I posted this reply to Rus in the Norfolk Hilton thread in the 4th page on April 3, 2005.

Original mention of Tower

Here's a snippet of that post:

"the current City Hall building will then be torn down and that the southern half of the block which is made of a parking lot, gardens, and the southern half of the circuit courts would be a site of a future office tower when needed. That tower would fill a void in the skyline between Dominion Tower and the skyline on Main St. That was a few years back though so I don't know how plans have changed since. "

Obviously some plans have changed since then but thankfully the proposed office tower is still in the works.

[vdogg]

I finally found the post where I originally mentioned/talked about the office tower for the Northeast corner of Waterside Dr. and St. Paul's Blvd. I posted this reply to Rus in the Norfolk Hilton thread in the 4th page on April 3, 2005.

Original mention of Tower

Here's a snippet of that post:

"the current City Hall building will then be torn down and that the southern half of the block which is made of a parking lot, gardens, and the southern half of the circuit courts would be a site of a future office tower when needed. That tower would fill a void in the skyline between Dominion Tower and the skyline on Main St. That was a few years back though so I don't know how plans have changed since. "

Obviously some plans have changed since then but thankfully the proposed office tower is still in the works.

Wow, almost 2 year ago to the day, and the Hilton still isn't built. Oh, here's a little help with that link you tried to post.

[urbanlife]

Even better:

And once that's completed maybe we can tear down that grotesque structure that they're currently in and build another tower. This seems like pretty sound planning anyway you look at it.

Actually more than just a tower, there is enough land there for possibly two towers, or a tower and a complex of some kind.

I also like the reconnecting of the Main St. This might help stimulate more new growth east of 64.

[vdogg]

Norfolk evaluating proposals from 6 teams

Norfolk

[ace707]

Norfolk evaluating proposals from 6 teams

The list of groups seems very impressive especially from firms outstide of the area:

Proposals were submitted by MMM Design Group, Skidmore Owings and Merrill of Chicago and Ricci Greene Associates of New York; Clark Nexsen of Norfolk and HOK; Fentress Bradburn Architects LTD of Denver; HDR Architecture of Alexandria and Kallmann McKinnell & Wood of Boston; Perkins Eastman of Charlotte and Tymoff+Moss of Norfolk; and DMJM Design of Arlington and HSMM of Roanoke.

Of the groups who would you like to be selected? Personally I would like the Chicago/New York group. The cities those groups come from have great urban and true metro architecture and it would be great to have them design a building closely designed by the cities they come from. I'd be also interested to see the Alexandria/Boston and Charlotte/Norfolk groups offer. Looks like Norfolk has great potential to have a standout building.

[VAGATOR]

They aren't joking about the current system not being safe. Personally, I am surprised nobody has been seriously hurt down there, it is almost a zoo.

[Padman]

I shouldn't say this because I hope something nice gets built, but when our court buildings become our best buildings, we're in trouble. The new downtown slogan could be "No books but book 'em"

[vtfan18]

The list of groups seems very impressive especially from firms outstide of the area:

Of the groups who would you like to be selected? Personally I would like the Chicago/New York group. The cities those groups come from have great urban and true metro architecture and it would be great to have them design a building closely designed by the cities they come from. I'd be also interested to see the Alexandria/Boston and Charlotte/Norfolk groups offer. Looks like Norfolk has great potential to have a standout building.

After viewing the various firms' websites I really like the group out of Chicago/New York and the group from Denver. Although I must say, individually, the group out of New York was boring and expected more but perhaps teamed up with the Chicago group, they could do something very nice.

[vdogg]

Norfolk ready for input on courts complex

Large elevators, but no escalators.

Courtrooms with windows so jurors don

[Telmnstr]

Norfolk ready for input on courts complex

Wireless networks for all in the court buildings? That would be a fun one to sniff!