WOW! (Hispanics and immigrants in NWA, part II)

[masons_dad1]

wow...talk about xenephobia and then there is this gem by you:

"Thankfully, our government is creating laws like HR4437, which DID pass through the House and was only barely dismissed by the Senate due to mass rioting by millions of Hispanics throughout the US.

could you tell me where these "mass riots" took place?....somehow even FAUX NEWS missed them.

[masons_dad1]

How can you tell just by looking at someone if they are illegal or legal? I see people make that mistake everyday. And there are plenty of legal US citizens who are lazy, good-for-nothing drains on society, while there are doubtlessly plenty of illegals who contribute by building the houses we living, cleaning our public restrooms, and yes, even doing the "ugly jobs" most people would prefer not to do. So, from what I gather, lazy legal citizens are better than hard-working illegals?

[masons_dad1]

The poem by Emma Lazarus is nice, but its just a poem.

As for immigration, we have the most open immigration in the world. We accept 2 million per year from all over the world who go through the proper channels and become citizens.

We are not talking about immigration.

We are talking about illegal immigration.

People who break our laws to come here.

People who commit document fraud and identity theft to work here.

Those are serious problems, in my opinion. We are a nation of LAWS first and foremost. Allowing these people to skirt our laws is a problem.

The complete idealist believes EVERYONE should have a right to come to America to pursue a "better life".

The complete xenophobe believes NO ONE should.

The idealist isn't realistic and believes there is something magical about the landmass that comprises the U.S. which creates opportunity. There isn't anything "magical" here that doesn't exist in Mexico or Africa except LAWS and a population that for the most part abides by and respects those LAWS. We must uphold that, or we will cease to exist as a nation. By our very existence as a nation of immigrants, little binds us but our laws and common rights. Illegal immigration erodes some of the thin threads holding us together IMHO and cheapens what it means to be an American citizen.

The complete xenophobe is a hypocrite because his ancestors fled poverty and/ or persecution to come here.

I fall in between. My cynicism and opposition to illegal immigration is fed by my observation that its a corporate thing more than a compassion thing when it comes to our government. My opposition is also fed by what I see as non-assimilation and the disruption and degradation of existing communities as a result.

WE HAVE PLENTY OF LEGAL IMMIGRATION TO THIS COUNTRY. MORE THAN ANY OTHER NATION ON THE PLANET.

We need to enforce our laws and protect our communities, schools and public services from being overburdened and diminished.

Cheap labor isn't a good enough reason to start throwing out law and order.

[cowbreath]

I didn't realize there was so much going on in this area where people were now trying to hire the cheaper labor to do stuff. A friend of mine who "labors" says he and a lot of people he work with right now can't get any jobs, although there are plenty of construction projects going on in the area. He's not bitter about it, but knows that a lot of people have hired cheaper labor and much of it is by Mexicans. I just wonder what he'll do if he can't recover from this.

**Added: It's not that I support or not support illegal immigration, but it just seems in general life is a struggle where one person is always trying to gain advantage over the other. In our country and our time, illegal immigration is supposed to be what it is: illegal. I guess it's hard not to get mad at Uncle Sam for not protecting its own people (citizens). In our day and age (and GDP) I guess we'll just have to get used to our country being undercut on its labor force leaving us top-heavy.

[diplodocus]

Watch The Morning News on Sunday for a special report on this topic. It will answer many of your questions and, no doubt, raise a good deal more.

[mcheiss]

Watch The Morning News on Sunday for a special report on this topic. It will answer many of your questions and, no doubt, raise a good deal more.

[astrife]

This whole thread strikes me as a perfect example of how in some ways people believe NWA is becoming so cosmopolitian ("Look at our many Olive Gardens!!!), while in other ways it's stuck back in the post-depression era Ozarks ("Them dad gum Mexicans come in here and take all my healthcare!"). There has been a strong current of racisim in the Ozarks since after the Civil War, regardless of whether you think the illegal immigrant debate has any grounding in racisim (I do, personally, though it's not completely tied up there).

Who cares if this is a national crisis? First and foremost, this is an Arkansas problem for us. Some days people decry how much the federal government gets involved in local issues, but then when it's convenient everyone cries "Help me, Uncle Sam!" We need to deal with the problem ourselves. But I don't think the problem is just whether there are too many illegals in NWA. It goes much deeper than that.

How can you tell just by looking at someone if they are illegal or legal? I see people make that mistake everyday. And there are plenty of legal US citizens who are lazy, good-for-nothing drains on society, while there are doubtlessly plenty of illegals who contribute by building the houses we living, cleaning our public restrooms, and yes, even doing the "ugly jobs" most people would prefer not to do. So, from what I gather, lazy legal citizens are better than hard-working illegals? Because you know, once you're legal, you've got a safety net and don't really need to work again -- you will be taken care of. But illegals don't have that net.... they gotta work, or they starve.

Razorback fan said illegals are "dangerous." The kid @ VT wasn't an illegal, was he? Saying citizenship is an inidicator of someone's law-abiding leanings is not only a blanket statment but just plain stupid.

Follow the law: become a citizen. I fully support that. It's the right thing to do. But maybe the real solution is helping people become citizens, helping them see the benefits, and making the process reasonable. Many HS graduates out there probably know less about US History than you have to know to pass a citizenship test. We are supposed to be a country of innocent until proven guilty; we should first welcome, then assist, then reject the ones that can't make the cut. It's that simple.

[Julles]

I love the bolded part. NWA is not as progressive as some would have you believe. It simply just stands in stark contrast to the surrounding rural communities of Arkansas so it seems to be a more progressive town than it really is.

[astrife]

Now, if we're talking about racist attitudes, I don't believe NWA has any kind of corner on the market. NWA has plenty of racists, but we also have plenty of folks who welcome diversity. And it's exactly the same in the rest of the country. I think all the other metropolitan areas in the US have just as much racism as we do, it's just that when it happens here, we blame it on not being progressive. If racism were not a nationwide problem, there would not have been such an uproar about Imus.

Also, I've said this before, but racism in Australia is MUCH worse than here. There has been a huge influx of Asians into Australia over the last 30 years or so, and the Aussies are not happy about it. Two weeks over there was enough for my husband to know he wouldn't want to live there. Even our kids, who have very light brown skin, were treated as if they didn't exist.

[Julles]

I never knew Australia had a problem with that.

[mcheiss]

Take a look at Europe as well. Britian's British National Party wants to expel all non-wyite people from the country and prevent all Muslims from flying. Then there's France's National Front which is just as bad as the BNP but almost won the 2nd round 2000 Presidential Election . And don't even get me started on Russia's Liberal Democratic Party (the name is the complete oppposite of what it stands for ).

[Mith242]

Yeah it's funny that many other areas of the world seem to suddenly be having this problem and it's much worse than here. I've heard Julles mention Australia before and as Matt has stated Europe is having a lot of problems. Ever notice how suddenly conservatives are suddenly being elected to top offices (like France)? Much of it is a backlash to growing problems with immigration. Europe has a shrinking population base and needs people from other areas to help fill jobs. But suddenly everyone is concerned because all the immigrants don't want to drop all their customs for the European ones. But getting back to NWA, no there are certainly areas up here that aren't progressive. Fayetteville is on the progressive liberal side. But much of the rest of NWA is know for being more conservative.

[johnnydr87]

Yeah it's funny that many other areas of the world seem to suddenly be having this problem and it's much worse than here. I've heard Julles mention Australia before and as Matt has stated Europe is having a lot of problems. Ever notice how suddenly conservatives are suddenly being elected to top offices (like France)? Much of it is a backlash to growing problems with immigration. Europe has a shrinking population base and needs people from other areas to help fill jobs. But suddenly everyone is concerned because all the immigrants don't want to drop all their customs for the European ones. But getting back to NWA, no there are certainly areas up here that aren't progressive. Fayetteville is on the progressive liberal side. But much of the rest of NWA is know for being more conservative.

[mcheiss]

Ironic as it may sound, part of the reason why we may hear of these official party lines of racism from Europe is because dialogue is more open there. The countries have multiple parties, not just two (basically). Their parties represent a much wider spectrum of beliefs (communistic, conservative, etc). I really have no doubt that if the really conservative branch of the Republican could start its own party, it would have many of the same ideals as the British National Party. It's just not a viable option here.

[Mith242]

Yeah, these parties are basically forming b/c of poor economic conditions and racism.

A bit off topic.

I don't know if any of you know what an ASBO is, but it's basically a restraining order that can be issued to British citizens for "Anti-Social Behavior". One of my British Muslim buddies recieved an ASBO b/c his neighbor said he's loud when he comes home at night!! The only real reason he received it is b/c his neighbor is a BNP member who happens to be British Whiteblood who doesn't like his anyone outside of his race. If my buddy get's another ASBO, he'll be arrested.

[masons_dad1]

Going back to illegal immigration in America.

I can't say I've ever agreed with President Bush on any accounts, but his Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill that WILL be passed this year has my full support. Hopefully, this reform bill won't be blocked by bi-partison bickering.

Here's a summary of the reform bill that includes a few measures that I myself have mentioned on this subject before this reform bill was released.

1. Securing The Border

By the end of 2008, we will have a total of more than 18,000 agents, doubling the size of the Border Patrol under the President's leadership.

More than 85 percent of the illegal immigrants caught crossing the Southern border are Mexicans, and virtually all are sent back home within 24 hours. For years, however, most apprehended non-Mexican illegal immigrants were released back into society on this side of the border

[KJW]

Aporkalypse, if you'd already seen this from the NWA News "immigrants" series, I apologize, but this is truly incredible when you consider the racial/ethnic patterns in NWA just a dozen years ago, let alone 2 or 3 decades back:

More than 90 percent of students in Northwest Arkansas' four big districts -- Fayetteville, Springdale, Rogers and Bentonville -- in 1995 were white, non-Hispanic. By fall 2006, the Rogers district was 38 percent Hispanic, and the Springdale district was 39 percent Hispanic. Springdale is on the verge of being minority majority with white, non-Hispanic enrollment at 52.4 percent.

(To which I reply, "Isn't 52.4% ALREADY minority majority?")

http://www.nwaonline.com/articles/2007/05/...7azoverview.txt

[vbfl85]

minority majority is when the majority (white, non-hispanics) drops below 50% of the student population. Meaning the minority groups are now the new majority in the public school system.

[KJW]

minority majority is when the majority (white, non-hispanics) drops below 50% of the student population. Meaning the minority groups are now the new majority in the public school system.

[cowbreath]

Watch The Morning News on Sunday for a special report on this topic. It will answer many of your questions and, no doubt, raise a good deal more.

[Arkansas Student]

This may have already been said, but 40/29 & The Morning News sent out a news release today saying they would be holding/televising a "town-hall" style meeting tomorrow night @ the UA on the subject of immigration in Arkansas. The meeting will be on TV from 6:30pm - 7:00pm, as well as streamed on the 40/29 website. I don't know if it is open to the public.

I got the release through the city b/c Rogers Mayor Steve Womack is going to be one of the panelists.

I would upload the news release itself but apparently it's not a permitted format (Word file).

[Mith242]

I'm afraid I was out of town and didn't see it.

[masons_dad1]

Interesting article: Raids by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents on a series of Mexican restaurants in northwest Arkansas resulted in 21 arrests, a federal prosecutor said Wednesday. via Pine Bluff Commercial