The Gateway Site

[gs3]

Running late for the ballgame and have to head out, but just heard on WYFF that the Gateway site will not be home to the Federal Courthouse (that will be located somewhere else downtown) and that a developer is very interested in the site (and working with the city) for a retail/office/condo development. Didn't hear all the story as I was getting dressed to head out. Anyone know about this?

Heading to the game. Go Drive!!!!!!!

[Skyliner]

You suppose this could be the other secret development Bob Ellis is involved with? I have been hoping that site would be transformed into the real "Gateway to Greenville" which was originally promised. WYFF is on the ball with many of the downtown development leads.

[GvilleSC]

YES! This could mean more height and better urbanity for the site than a Court House could promise! Excellent news!!!! Plus, we have another highrise to look forward to elsewhere downtown for the Federal Court House. (hopefully it will still be a highrise).

This is great news!

Edited April 10, 2007 by GvilleSC

[RestedTraveler]

Sounds about as "promising" as anything else that's been proposed for the site: http://www.wyff4.com/news/11591253/detail.html Here's to hope.

[whitehourseview]

So now we know why nothing has happened with the Congressional Authorization for the Carroll Campbell Federal Courthouse. Doesn't sound like much that the city is considering, just talk. I do believe there is a hold at the moment on new Federal Courthouses.

I watched the video for the Memorial Auditorium implosion on the linked WYFF site, still angered that the structure was torn down so easily, it was a well-made facility and could have had another life for other uses. In return, 10 years of talks, lots of proposals and not much else. That empty lot is as sure as symbol as anything why things like the Greenville Grrrowl are gone for example.

[Spartan]

That would be a killer location for a signature building. Highrise or otherwise.

[krazeeboi]

I saw the video of the implosion of the auditorium, and the lot indeed looks like a great spot for something defining and memorable.

Somebody had better get Donald on the phone.

[deltad22]

I saw the video of the implosion of the auditorium, and the lot indeed looks like a great spot for something defining and memorable.

Somebody had better get Donald on the phone.

This is great news. Now we have the opportunity for a signature building. I really hope that developers dont screw this one up by just building a mediocre building. This really needs to make a statement. This spot sits up so a building with some height would really stand out.

[gs3]

This would have been a great spot for the Peacock, with it's signature status looks.

[GvilleSC]

This would have been a great spot for the Peacock, with it's signature status looks.

I agree. It's a worthy building, I'd say. Maybe the same architects will be on the project. It'd be a great spot for a hotel being adjacent to the Bilo Center.

[Spartan]

I think that this would not be a desiriable location for residential condos. I think people would be wary about living at the junction of Church, North, and Beattie- all major roads, high traffic volumes, etc. and the buiding is located opposite these roads from Main St. I also think the proximity to the Bi-Lo Center could be a detraction for residential because of the noise factor.

But offices and retail? I can definitely see a quality mixed use building with these two primary uses. This is the direction I would like to see for this site.

[GvilleSC]

You know, you could be right about residential, although it'd have great views. Could retail not fail for the same reason though? There would have to be a lot of office traffic to help patronize the businesses.

[gs3]

I would tend to see this spot as good for a residential tower.....you can walk just a couple of blocks into the heart of town, the views are great, Christ Church and it's beautiful campus are just across the street, you would have easy access with your car to jump 385 quickly. The noise from Bi-Lo Center may be a distraction, but then look at The Fieldhouse overlooking West End Field. IMO, people buying in downtowns are not as concerned with noise as it goes with the territory.

I think the way this building addresses the surrounding streets will be key if retail is to make it in this spot. Office, condo and hotel all would do well. Agree with you GvilleSC, as I have my concerns about retail in this spot.

[breed]

If done right, this could finally spur development away from Main Street... and better yet... establish a pedestrian-oriented link from the BiLo Center to the West End.

[Spartan]

You know, you could be right about residential, although it'd have great views. Could retail not fail for the same reason though? There would have to be a lot of office traffic to help patronize the businesses.

Good point. Though any retail involved here would be dinstinctly separate from the Main St retail scene. There won't be that level of pedestrian activity in the near future, so I'm sure they would take that into consideration.

I would tend to see this spot as good for a residential tower.....you can walk just a couple of blocks into the heart of town, the views are great, Christ Church and it's beautiful campus are just across the street, you would have easy access with your car to jump 385 quickly. The noise from Bi-Lo Center may be a distraction, but then look at The Fieldhouse overlooking West End Field. IMO, people buying in downtowns are not as concerned with noise as it goes with the territory.

I think the way this building addresses the surrounding streets will be key if retail is to make it in this spot. Office, condo and hotel all would do well. Agree with you GvilleSC, as I have my concerns about retail in this spot.

I'm not sure that West End Field is the same situation. I agree that people living in an urban setting are generally more willing to put of with noise. But the draw there is that you are already in the West End, which is not a major traffic thoroughfare, much less at the intersection of 3 major arteries in Greenville. I would think the Bi-Lo Center puts out more obnoxious noise than the baseball field. I can't varify that though. If residential development happens on this site, I predict it will face all away from the Bi-Lo Center, or they will spend a ton of money on an acoustical engineer to keep the sound out.

If done right, this could finally spur development away from Main Street... and better yet... establish a pedestrian-oriented link from the BiLo Center to the West End.

Agreed. A much needed link at that. They need to work on filling those parking lots across from the courthouse.

[mallguy]

I could see a restaurant or bar doing well here.

(A Jillian's would also be perfect, although we know what happened to that concept when it tried to come to Main Street.)

[gs3]

I'm not sure that West End Field is the same situation. I agree that people living in an urban setting are generally more willing to put of with noise. But the draw there is that you are already in the West End, which is not a major traffic thoroughfare, much less at the intersection of 3 major arteries in Greenville. I would think the Bi-Lo Center puts out more obnoxious noise than the baseball field. I can't varify that though.

You're right about the Bi-Lo / West End Field being different situations. Seems the noise would be the other way around though, for a condo alongside either one. As West End Field has no roof, all noise would be exterior (louder) and as Bi-Lo is an enclosed arena, seems the noise level would be lower (more quiet).

Lets hope its a sizable tower, and if any condos go in, I would think the developer would take views into account. The best view being north, looking at the mountains (Paris Mountain).

Edited April 10, 2007 by gsupstate

[btoy]

I could see a restaurant or bar doing well here.

(A Jillian's would also be perfect, although we know what happened to that concept when it tried to come to Main Street.)

Jillians is no more, the ones that are not being shut down are being converted to Dave & Busters.

[Skyliner]

I think that this would not be a desiriable location for residential condos. I think people would be wary about living at the junction of Church, North, and Beattie- all major roads, high traffic volumes, etc. and the buiding is located opposite these roads from Main St. I also think the proximity to the Bi-Lo Center could be a detraction for residential because of the noise factor.

But offices and retail? I can definitely see a quality mixed use building with these two primary uses. This is the direction I would like to see for this site.

I have said for years that a mixed-use development including one or multiple towers would be perfect for this location. If the residential units were to be added on the upper floors, the impact of the surrounding traffic would be far less distracting - possibly even eliminated altogether, depending on how high they are. Uses I would love to see incorporated include; hotel, retail (including dining), residential, entertainment, and office. These can all work harmoniously with the proper design. The property is much larger than it appears from the street.

[vicupstate]

I'm not holding my breath on this one. So many deals for this site have fallen through. The site is surrounded by one-way streets that have bumper to bumper traffic a large part of the day. That is the kiss of death for retail. The site is very isolated.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[distortedlogic]

Lets just hope that after ten years, they don't just up and settle for a four storey something.

A good way to link it with main st would be to completely redo the strip that runs down by outbound E. North ST, you know the one with the ugly green tile building. Develop that wiht a walkable row of shops and light restaurant, than put a unique pedestrian bridge over Church st to the site. Put in some gardens and another fountain and it ties in other parts of DT.

[whitehourseview]

I'm not holding my breath on this one. So many deals for this site have fallen through. The site is surrounded by one-way streets that have bumper to bumper traffic a large part of the day. That is the kiss of death for retail. The site is very isolated.

I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm with you there. At least some of the other proposals actually had arch. drawings with them, this doesn't even have that. It's really a bad site for development, and I'm not surprised that nothing has been put there, high rise or anything else. The roads surrounding it are hard to cross for pedestrians and difficult to navigate to for cars due to traffic.

I had hoped that a Federal Courthouse would work there, because it seemed like the government might be the only institution that would actually take a chance on that property, with its proximity to the county court house and the law firms in the area.

The Memorial Auditorium and now the Bi-Lo Center have been at that site for going on 50 years now. Other than the old Warehouse Theater, I'm not aware of any other type of business that has moved close to either facility. It's just not a particularly great location.

[linkerjpatrick]

When they first tore down the GMA their was a lot of talk and requests for suggestions on what should go on the site. I still think some kind of park or amphiteather (to serve as a bridge between the court house and Bi-Lo Center. would be a good compliment to the Bi-Lo Center (I wish it had a different name - still sounds like a mega grocery store - at least the Carolina First Center can have a double meaning).

[Skyliner]

I'm not holding my breath on this one. So many deals for this site have fallen through. The site is surrounded by one-way streets that have bumper to bumper traffic a large part of the day. That is the kiss of death for retail. The site is very isolated.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Perhaps a much better connection with the parking garage across the inbound traffic on Beattie Place would help. I have envisioned a high quality enclosed pedestrian structure to span over this thoroughfare. This would help ease the uncertainty of pedestrian access and also provide a single, relatively easy place for people to park. There are already plans in place to add at least 500 spaces to that garage in conjunction with any new development on the Gateway site. An architecturally attractive bridge there would definitely become a welcoming gateway into downtown via I-385.

[gvegascple]

I'm not holding my breath on this one. So many deals for this site have fallen through. The site is surrounded by one-way streets that have bumper to bumper traffic a large part of the day. That is the kiss of death for retail. The site is very isolated.

I'll believe it when I see it.

I am concerned about adding anything at the site that could increase traffic congestion at this gateway. Does it have to be a structure or retail? I can't get enough of the green in Greenville and would have no problem with another great tree lined outdoor space.

Not seeing any of the plans so I may not know if the question of slowing or rerouting some of the heavy traffic around instead of through downtown has been addressed, but has anyone else noticed how odd/potentially dangerous it is to have 18 wheelers barreling through the pedestrian downtown intersections at E North and E Washington Streets?