Buckhead District Developments

[Lady Celeste]

Designspace, thank you for offering your idea of what you feel would be nice. I can appreciate your taste and also that of the development you presented as evidence to your opinion. While it is understated elegance, one must also keep in mind the dynamics of the entire area. Such a development in that part of Buckhead may stand out too much as "modern." I am in no way presenting myself as an expert of design styles nor am I going to present myself as a guru of "Buckhead sensibility." I will however say that while that may work in Manhassett, it may not work in Buckhead. Perhaps on a smaller scale but not the entire development. Maybe this design could be worked into some portion of the development. I feel that if the entire development looked this way, it would be in such a stark contrast to what's currently around the proposed area. This could in an of itself make this development appear as some master planned development. The very thing people are hoping it will not exhibit.

Regardless of what one may hope for, Atlanta, as is much of the south, is decidedly traditional in it's taste in architecture. While many of us on these type of development websites may long for something cutting edge, the market will not allow for as such. Even the Related Group, with it's CityPlace at Buckhead development, had to learn the style choices of the Atlanta market. What might work in Miami, with it's latin style cues, might be a bit much here.

Designspace I am not saying that you or anyone else should not push for other design motifs here in Atlanta. I encourage you to question design here in Atlanta. It makes the city better, varied and more exciting architecturally when we can have a nice mixture. I feel that Mr Carter would have rather offered a product that he knew would be well recieved than one people had to grow to like. As he was assembling the parcels, I'm sure he had a team of people scouring the area and examining similar markets to see what would work for both retail and residential. As Martinman has said, the renderings are conceptual. Perhaps even thse are test designs. Maybe a client will ask for something different...similar to what you presented.

I will say this though...those designs may work in Manhasset but could be deemed out of character in Greenwich or Upper Saddle River. Both area similar in demographics yet different in taste. I personally feel that this development....like the St Regis and the Mansion...will speak directly to the clientele in which it aspires reach. That's not to say your taste are bad. I like your offerings...the overall market may not. Since I am not affliated with the marketing research team hired or amassed by Mr Carter, I can only speculate as to why this particular design has been presented.

[Andrea]

... these renderings remind me of fancy suburban strip mall trying too hard to be something it’s not - like a sophomoric attempt at elegance by recreating past grandeur, as if palladium windows and excessive ornamentation is all it takes. Where’s the restraint?

I'm not trying to defend this particular design but for some reason I'm not seeing the Palladian windows. (While I don't think Palladio did much architecture anywhere in America, his windows are nonetheless widely used here and it wouldn't seem incongruous to me if there were some).

The lowrise buildings actually do remind me of some of the old retail that was there decades ago.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1097579353/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1097579367/

In my opinion the SOB architecture ought to work pretty well with other buildings in the area. It's probably worth noting, too, that although this project will cover several blocks it by no means defines the entire Village. It should spur further development and I look forward to seeing some eclecticism in future construction.

[ryanmckibben]

If I ever compare Streets of Buckhead (I can't believe that the marketing people didn't realize it would be shortened to SOB!!!) to Atlantic Station, it will only be because of my concern about the totality of the project. The architecture may be different, but the fact remains that a large area of higt density real estate will be developed my a single entity at relatively the same time. The potential to see that urban Disneyland feeling that is so prevalant in AS is a very distinct possibility. I realize that there are far worst tragedies in the world then an entire area being all shiny and new, but I maintain that the best way to create an authentic environment is to let it occur naturally. Why did Carter have to buy the entire area, and redevelop it all at once? Was one multi million dollar high rise just not challenging enough???

[verge]

Heh. That shows how much I know about architecture. I was thinking this looked pretty good.

I stand by what I said--- and while architectural taste may be subjective (as everything on the internet seems to be)...

As someone who has practiced architecture for many years, devoted his life to it and has been involved in many efforts to heighten public awareness of good design I can tell you this stuff is pretty dismal and a step back for Atlanta (if only because it is so prominent)...

As for Southern tastes that argument (for me, a southerner) is fairly infuriating-- particularly given that Atlanta is populated by folks from all over the country and lately the world... Anything but the highest level of design quality (be that 'cutting edge' or well-done historicism) for Atlanta should not be acceptable, at least not for major projects... Until some critical apparatus is in place here developers will not get the kind of 'feedback' they perhaps need or 'deserve'... This is a critical time for Atlanta as much of what the city will be is being built now--- we all need to hold those that build it to (very) high standards-esp. for projects as big and significant as this one...

[adelosky]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see why people are destroying the look and feel of AS. I am by no means an expert on skyscrapers, development, urban lifestyles, or any other topic that might be discussed on these boards. I'm just an everyday average US/Atlanta citizen that enjoys development of all types.

That being said, my wife and I drove and walked around the city yesterday from Buckhead to Atlantic Station to Midtown and back home in Stone Mountain and we both agreed that we really really like AS. It has a great feel, it's new, clean, still has a lot of development to go with the Atlantic and the BB&T buildings, but overall it looks like a nice place to live - which isn't that really the point? If we weren't already established in a house, we would seriously consider moving there.

So the architecture won't be world renowned or the millenium gate isn't something that the Greeks would be proud of. So what? If people live there for decades to come and it establishes itself as a live/work/play community then shouldn't it be considered a success?

And please, I am by no means trashing anyone on this board who has opposite opinions towards Atlantic Station or Streets of Buckhead (which I have high hopes for as well). It just seems that people in general criticize (and usually not constructively) the majority of projects going on in the city because of one thing or another, when it is all of the projects as a whole that define the city, not just Atlantic Station, or the Buckhead area, or any other developments. Won't the likes of Sovereign or The Mansion or Aquarius or The Atlantic make up for some of the so called deficiencies of some of these areas?

[Andrea]

I stand by what I said--- and while architectural taste may be subjective (as everything on the internet seems to be)...

As someone who has practiced architecture for many years, devoted his life to it and has been involved in many efforts to heighten public awareness of good design I can tell you this stuff is pretty dismal and a step back for Atlanta (if only because it is so prominent)...

As for Southern tastes that argument (for me, a southerner) is fairly infuriating-- particularly given that Atlanta is populated by folks from all over the country and lately the world... Anything but the highest level of design quality (be that 'cutting edge' or well-done historicism) for Atlanta should not be acceptable, at least not for major projects... Until some critical apparatus is in place here developers will not get the kind of 'feedback' they perhaps need or 'deserve'... This is a critical time for Atlanta as much of what the city will be is being built now--- we all need to hold those that build it to (very) high standards-esp. for projects as big and significant as this one…

verge, I certainly haven't argued for "Southern tastes" or suggested for a moment that you back off your opinion.

I think most Atlanta architecture is pretty bland (as it is in many other cities, for that matter), and I for one welcome your critiques. I'd love to hear more of your ideas and even see some sketches if you have some that you could share. Since I'm untrained it's a lot easier for me to understand through specific examples than through general concepts.

[Lady Celeste]

Verge, I can speak on southern taste because I have lived in the south all my life. Taking that the average age for blogs like this is probably 22-26, that means I have been a southerner longer than the average poster. If you, as a southerner, was offended then that was not my intention. As a life long southerner over 30, I know what sells and what is found to be appealing. I also know what does not sell. When I say "sell" I mean marketable.

I have been in the real estate market for a while now. I have a slight history of what sells and what does not sell in this market. Every market has their own taste. I also get many of my clients from out of state markets. One of my clients is currently in Singapore. People don't move to Atlanta to get what they had from where they come. They move here for a slice of southern americana. We see it daily in how many people move to suburban Atlanta every day. I have only one out of town client who is looking for a mediterranean style home. While increasing in popularity here, true mediterraneans are still more rare than a european traditional or a home done in the greek revival tradition.

Before real estate, I worked in corporate america. The name of the game in most companies is to make money. Builders are out to give the market exactly what it wants. Homes being built in Phoenix will not appear as homes in Atlanta. That's not a knock on my roots. It is being realistic that certain styles sell in certain locations. Perhaps the style of the SOB is not what you feel is worthy but at the end of the day the green speak will trump our yearning for something earth shattering. If I go and make my baked ziti with tofu, my husband will not like it. It's probably more healthy for him but after many years of being with him I know he won't like it. Mr Carter is giving the market what it wants...same principle as my baked ziti analogy.

Look, we all can hope that an Atlanta style can come about sooner than later. Perhaps some of you young architects and urban designers will take the torch and run with it. In the meantime, Mr Carter, a long time Buckhead resident himself, has decided to take a dark spot on the Buckhead resurgence and make it better. Perfect, no. Better, yes. Again we do not know what the finish product will look like. While I personally may want something a bit more personal to Atlanta, businesswise I must understand that more dynamics than my own personal taste are at stake. Money is to be made. Surely Mr Carter will not skip on the quality of material. From what I know of him, he has a strong desire for a better Buckhead. It is his childhood home. I'm sure at the many soiree's, galas, private affairs, conference meetings, golf outtings, safaris, boating excursions and weddings he has been to, that he has taken time to ask "what do you think should go there and how should it look?"

If one does not think that the initial design speaks to the market that the development wish to capture then they are not thinking without prejudice. As a matter of fact, as a southerner, there are designs at Atlantic Station that I may feel are a bit different but perhaps some of the residential offerings at Atlantic Station aren't meant to appeal directly to me and my taste. Even still, there are those who complained about that development as well. Developers are not stupid and realize that you will always have those who are not pleased with something or another. It's best to go after your target niche and statisfy them. As much as I read some of the posters on here talking about LV this and Barney's, 9 times out of 10 a majority do not have the wherewithall to even shop at those places minus a belt or two. The SOB will appeal to those who traditionally shopped at Phipps...rather conservative itself...and other local boutiques in the area. I feel that Mr Carter is well aware of the SOB's target market.

[Andrea]

If I ever compare Streets of Buckhead (I can't believe that the marketing people didn't realize it would be shortened to SOB!!!) to Atlantic Station, it will only be because of my concern about the totality of the project. The architecture may be different, but the fact remains that a large area of higt density real estate will be developed my a single entity at relatively the same time. The potential to see that urban Disneyland feeling that is so prevalant in AS is a very distinct possibility. I realize that there are far worst tragedies in the world then an entire area being all shiny and new, but I maintain that the best way to create an authentic environment is to let it occur naturally. Why did Carter have to buy the entire area, and redevelop it all at once? Was one multi million dollar high rise just not challenging enough???

Ryan, I hear that, and I'm also a proponent of organic rather than master-planned development. One of the good things about this project, in my opinion, is that it only covers a fairly limited part of Buckhead. Novare has large holdings just south of Carter's development, and there are many other active players on the scene. So while SOB will likely spur additional development, it's highly unlikely that it will all be "themed" in the sense of Atlantic Station. I'm hoping we'll see a lot of architectural diversity and varied uses.

[atlla]

Some more detailed renderings of Buckhead Village

Keep in mind, this is not the rendering of any hotel that is planned for the SoB. 1 Hotel is still in the design phase of the hotel for Atlanta.

[verge]

Verge, I can speak on southern taste because I have lived in the south all my life. Taking that the average age for blogs like this is probably 22-26, that means I have been a southerner longer than the average poster. If you, as a southerner, was offended then that was not my intention. As a life long southerner over 30, I know what sells and what is found to be appealing. I also know what does not sell. When I say "sell" I mean marketable.

I have been in the real estate market for a while now. I have a slight history of what sells and what does not sell in this market. Every market has their own taste. I also get many of my clients from out of state markets. One of my clients is currently in Singapore. People don't move to Atlanta to get what they had from where they come. They move here for a slice of southern americana. We see it daily in how many people move to suburban Atlanta every day. I have only one out of town client who is looking for a mediterranean style home. While increasing in popularity here, true mediterraneans are still more rare than a european traditional or a home done in the greek revival tradition.

Before real estate, I worked in corporate america. The name of the game in most companies is to make money. Builders are out to give the market exactly what it wants. Homes being built in Phoenix will not appear as homes in Atlanta. That's not a knock on my roots. It is being realistic that certain styles sell in certain locations. Perhaps the style of the SOB is not what you feel is worthy but at the end of the day the green speak will trump our yearning for something earth shattering. If I go and make my baked ziti with tofu, my husband will not like it. It's probably more healthy for him but after many years of being with him I know he won't like it. Mr Carter is giving the market what it wants...same principle as my baked ziti analogy.

Look, we all can hope that an Atlanta style can come about sooner than later. Perhaps some of you young architects and urban designers will take the torch and run with it. In the meantime, Mr Carter, a long time Buckhead resident himself, has decided to take a dark spot on the Buckhead resurgence and make it better. Perfect, no. Better, yes. Again we do not know what the finish product will look like. While I personally may want something a bit more personal to Atlanta, businesswise I must understand that more dynamics than my own personal taste are at stake. Money is to be made. Surely Mr Carter will not skip on the quality of material. From what I know of him, he has a strong desire for a better Buckhead. It is his childhood home. I'm sure at the many soiree's, galas, private affairs, conference meetings, golf outtings, safaris, boating excursions and weddings he has been to, that he has taken time to ask "what do you think should go there and how should it look?"

If one does not think that the initial design speaks to the market that the development wish to capture then they are not thinking without prejudice. As a matter of fact, as a southerner, there are designs at Atlantic Station that I may feel are a bit different but perhaps some of the residential offerings at Atlantic Station aren't meant to appeal directly to me and my taste. Even still, there are those who complained about that development as well. Developers are not stupid and realize that you will always have those who are not pleased with something or another. It's best to go after your target niche and statisfy them. As much as I read some of the posters on here talking about LV this and Barney's, 9 times out of 10 a majority do not have the wherewithall to even shop at those places minus a belt or two. The SOB will appeal to those who traditionally shopped at Phipps...rather conservative itself...and other local boutiques in the area. I feel that Mr Carter is well aware of the SOB's target market.

Thanks for the comments-- that are exactly what I was hoping for-- really trying to start a dialogue about architecture and design...

I too am a life-long southerner, and having grown up in one of the most traditional cities in America (albeit in the suburbs), I basically share none of what many would consider 'Southern' preferences (except maybe sweet tea and grits)... In fact I moved to Atlanta precisely because it was NOT so traditional and considerably more open-minded than the place I grew up (even that place has changed now-- Charleston, SC)...

and if you're in real estate (I work for developers as well) you understand that while they all follow the 'trends' its the guys that have the vision to break with those that eventually do the best... nobody thought high-rise condos would ever fly in Atlanta 10-15 years ago-- nobody thought that glass towers (ala Novare and many others) would meet Atlanta's traditional tastes-- just look around now... This city is being built and while its naive to think that all of the new stuff will be great (or even very good) anyone who cares should be an advocate for strong urban design and architecture... whether that be cutting edge or historicism- The fact that folks like Chipperfield and Architectonica are doing residential towers here for very sophisticated market-savvy developers speaks volumes about the tastes of 21st century Atlanta- perhaps Mr. Carter needs to reexamine his market, intown Atlanta is not Mall of georgia with better shopping- or do

Edited August 14, 2007 by verge

[Andrea]

Thanks for the comments-- that are exactly what I was hoping for-- really trying to start a dialogue about architecture and design...

I'd love to see Atlanta's architecture improve. As an untrained and naive amateur, it would help me enter the dialogue if you had some suggestions and examples of the directions you'd like to see us move in. What would be a better look for this SOB project, for instance? Fortunately it's just the beginning of the rebuilding of the East Village, so there should be plenty of opportunities for more eclectic and diverse designs. I'm glad the whole Village isn't being done by just one developer.

Edited August 14, 2007 by Andrea

[verge]

I'd love to see Atlanta's architecture improve. As an untrained and naive amateur, it would help me enter the dialogue if you had some suggestions and examples of the directions you'd like to see us move in. What would be a better look for this SOB project, for instance? Fortunately it's just the beginning of the rebuilding of the East Village, so there should be plenty of opportunities for more eclectic and diverse designs. I'm glad the whole Village isn't being done by just one developer.

If Carter is only acting as master developer then the renderings don't mean much (if he is selling off parcels for development)-- I thought that he was doing it himself... is this not the case?---Thanks...

[Andrea]

If Carter is only acting as master developer then the renderings don't mean much (if he is selling off parcels for development)-- I thought that he was doing it himself... is this not the case?---Thanks...

He's just doing the Streets of Buckhead project, not the entire Village.

[Martinman]

If Carter is only acting as master developer then the renderings don't mean much (if he is selling off parcels for development)-- I thought that he was doing it himself... is this not the case?---Thanks...

Good point. Barry Hotel Partners is actually the developer of the 1Hotel and residences. But I don't think he's actually selling off parcels. He's probably doing a JV deal.

Keep in mind, this is not the rendering of any hotel that is planned for the SoB. 1 Hotel is still in the design phase of the hotel for Atlanta.

Those are the artists renderings of 1 Hotel reported by the AJC and other news outlets so they must've gotten it from the developer.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Martinman

[Martinman]

Here's a shot of Buckhead's 3 tallest by Mr. Joe F. Steed

Edited August 16, 2007 by Martinman

[designspace]

^^ awesome pic!!!

The SOB website contains a different rendering than the one discussed above. At least it's somewhat of an improvement IMO...

It's not a new rendering, however, as I've definitely seen it before. This leads me to the question, which one is it going to be or are both of these merely conceptual???

[Martinman]

Skyline @ Lindbergh held a groundbreaking ceremony yesterday. This is on Morosgo Drive near the Lindbergh Marta station.

21 stories

220 units from the $190s

Edited August 23, 2007 by Martinman

[adelosky]

Skyline @ Lindbergh held a groundbreaking ceremony yesterday. This is on Morosgo Drive near the Lindbergh Marta station.

21 stories

220 units from the $190s

This building will look nice down the street (sorta) from Lindbergh City Center. Does anyone have any ideas of other mid to high rises that will be going up on or near Piedmont in that area?

[Lady Celeste]

The Skyline will be an added plus to the burgeoning Lindbergh skyline. Metro Atlanta sprouts yet another skyline. Luckily for us, this one is on a MARTA rail line and close to the interstate. I'm not sure how the building will be situated but northern and southern views will definitely be great. Isn't Kroger or Publix adding a store to the Lindbergh development?

[johnatl]

The Skyline will be an added plus to the burgeoning Lindbergh skyline. Metro Atlanta sprouts yet another skyline. Luckily for us, this one is on a MARTA rail line and close to the interstate. I'm not sure how the building will be situated but northern and southern views will definitely be great. Isn't Kroger or Publix adding a store to the Lindbergh development?

That would be great if true. There is really no place to buy groceries in the neighborhood right now.

I had not even heard about this, but the other day I saw a new Pike's on Lindbergh just about to open. It should be a fantastic location for them.

[Martinman]

Some more renderings of Buckhead Village. (From this flier pdf)

Edited September 5, 2007 by Martinman

[perimeter285]

Exciting project! Can't wait to see what other retailers sign on.

[Martinman]

Yet another Buckhead project gets underway. Tishman Speyer recently started construction of Two Alliance Center, a 22-story spec office building.

This is an old rendering. They've "upgraded" the facade for this project from what the previous owner had planned (which makes me anxious to see what they have planned for Colony Square).

Edited September 10, 2007 by Martinman

[Andrea]

Yet another Buckhead project gets underway. Tishman Speyer recently started construction of Two Alliance Center, a 22-story spec office building.

That's quite a bit of new office space coming online. Between Terminus, 3344 Peachtree, 3630 Peachtree and Two Alliance Center, there's probably over 2.5 million sf.

[Martinman]

The Skyline will be an added plus to the burgeoning Lindbergh skyline. Metro Atlanta sprouts yet another skyline. Luckily for us, this one is on a MARTA rail line and close to the interstate. I'm not sure how the building will be situated but northern and southern views will definitely be great. Isn't Kroger or Publix adding a store to the Lindbergh development?

Gables just filed plans for an apartment development at Piedmont and Lindbergh Circle that will include a 96,000 sq ft grocery store and 17,000 sq ft of retail.