Winston Hotels 25-story tower @ Hillsborough & Harrington St

[plus2]

I doubt you will see much retail because of the entrance and exit points needed. Hillsborough is the only 2-way street surrounding the block. I think they would need a drive up lobby on Hillsborough St, which could take up the entire block. Then you need a deck entrance for the condo dwellers on one of the other blocks. Edenton St. isn't very pedestrian friendly already.

[dmccall]

Glory hallelujah! Bob's seen the light. Like DanRNC said, this represents a major tipping point for downtown. I posted earlier that Bob and his family have made tons of honest money OTB. He lives, goes to church, and goes to the club ITB, but business has always been focused on OTB. I'm not really even talking about Raleigh. He's never been much of an urban pioneer in any of the Winston Hotels properties.

Philip Isley isn't the anti-downtowner Dan alluded to in the post, but he certainly is more like Bob Winston than all of us. Perhaps many people like Bob's peers and their parents, will follow Bob's lead (as they have for decades) and get excited about downtown.

When did Storemont-Noble get the Marriott contract? 4 years ago?? I remember Bob walking away from that deal (with a big public subsidy). I wonder if he spent the next year kind of regretting that decision as he saw other projects falling into place; other projects headed up by people from here, no less (Reynolds, Site1, Lafayette, etc)!

I have to give credit to Meeker on this one. When Bob walked away from the Marriott deal, Meeker could have thrown eggs at him and ruined any future of Bob liking downtown. Instead, I assume that Meeker kept a cool head.

As far as Hampton Inn goes, they have really gotten nicer. I stayed at the one in downtown Charlotte two years ago and my room was nicer than rooms in the Atlanta Omni and Hyatt Regency. The only thing was that they still have those puny towels. That project is adjacent to a Hilton Garden and shares a parking deck.

Greg Poole is head of the Dix 306 group which unquestionably champions a resurrected downtown. Now that we have Poole and Winston on board, watch out!

[Subway Scoundrel]

When did Storemont-Noble get the Marriott contract? 4 years ago?? I remember Bob walking away from that deal (with a big public subsidy). I wonder if he spent the next year kind of regretting that decision as he saw other projects falling into place; other projects headed up by people from here, no less (Reynolds, Site1, Lafayette, etc)!

I have to give credit to Meeker on this one. When Bob walked away from the Marriott deal, Meeker could have thrown eggs at him and ruined any future of Bob liking downtown. Instead, I assume that Meeker kept a cool head.

[DanRNC]

I doubt there will be retail but it was mentioned that this won't be a typical Hampton Inn (mentioned a bit of "penache") so who knows until plans are released.

[ChiefJoJo]

WRAL has an article up now... I probably shouldn't have, but I was too curious... I looked at the comments on that page, and it's truly amazing what some people are saying:

I worked downtown for 10 years--you couldnt get me to go downtown even if they giving away free beer. Downtown doesnt need a face lift-- they need a new Wal-Mart super center if they want to attract people. Downtown is dead except for the people who work there or go to the convention center. If anyone knows of a single business downtown that is open at night that attacks locals-- sure would like to know the name of it.

To some extent, it's good to know that this perception exists, given we are in a little UP coccoon here on the web. This is the sort of perception that downtown is facing outside the city. We should thank our lucky stars that we actually have a Mayor (I know he's not perfect) that favors downtown. Otherwise, all of the anti-progress whiners in Smithfield and God knows where else would have their way. As far as I'm concerned, they can stay out in the boonies and leave DT to the rest of us.

[Justin6882]

Jeeze, those guys are ridiculous...

[ncwebguy]

The parking garage should have an exit on Edenton (pedestrian unfriendly, keeps traffic off Hillsborough) and people can use West to get to Hillsborough or Jones if they need to go east. The slope of the land goes down from the high point at Hillsborough/Harrington down along Edenton and West to the Edenton/West intersection. I know the Hillsborough/West/Edenton triangle used to have a sign saying it was for parking from the old A/V equipment store on the West Street side of the block.

We are fortuante that Winston's buyers gave approval to go ahead with this plan, and Winston looked at the CC hotel deal as a challenge instead of an insult. Hopefully PE III's spurned developers will follow suit.

I forget the name of the restaurant, but I think it was the first Chineese restaurant in Raleigh. CU fitness is the gym there, but it is really small. I could see an Aloft lobby on the West/Hillsborough corner and Hampton Inn's lobby on the other side of a mid-block coffee shop at Hillsborough/Harrington with the parking deck's entrance.

For visitors, this project is a couple of blocks from the TTA station/multi-modal center at Hargett and West. Conventioneers could get around on the train and shuttles and not even need to rent a car! This might delay Reyonlds II to after 2010, but that is a small price to pay!

I have given up on WRAL (and N&O) forums. There are two or three people with a lot more free time than common sense that spam every downtown story with "why is my tax dollars being wasted on downtown"-type posts. Never mind that my tax dollars are routinely wasted on developer subsidies that have a significanly smaller return on investments.

In the last few months, there seem to be more downtown supporters, with a lot of "I'm tired of North Raleigh" and "I went downtown for the first time in years" posts, so I still have hope for the city.

[NCMike1981]

This sounds like a great project that will work well in it's proposed location!!! *crossing fingers*

[CliffyB]

WRAL has an article up now... I probably shouldn't have, but I was too curious... I looked at the comments on that page, and it's truly amazing what some people are saying:

I worked downtown for 10 years--you couldnt get me to go downtown even if they giving away free beer. Downtown doesnt need a face lift-- they need a new Wal-Mart super center if they want to attract people. Downtown is dead except for the people who work there or go to the convention center. If anyone knows of a single business downtown that is open at night that attacks locals-- sure would like to know the name of it.

To some extent, it's good to know that this perception exists, given we are in a little UP coccoon here on the web. This is the sort of perception that downtown is facing outside the city. We should thank our lucky stars that we actually have a Mayor (I know he's not perfect) that favors downtown. Otherwise, all of the anti-progress whiners in Smithfield and God knows where else would have their way. As far as I'm concerned, they can stay out in the boonies and leave DT to the rest of us.

[DanRNC]

That guy has posted before as he always says the same thing about the Wal-Mart Supercenter.

[Flash]

Here's an estimation:

[rolly]

Flash: NICE depiction! I like the angle looking from St. Mary's college directly into the Clarion/Winston/Reynolds towers toward the CBD.

Like others have mentioned, the Wachovia tower somewhat ties into this complex... with another tower in the McDowell/Morgan area, we'd have come excellent connectivity between these areas!

A nice office tower would be perfect there (the next big HQ for Raleigh)

[Raleighmark]

I forget the name of the restaurant, but I think it was the first Chineese restaurant in Raleigh.

[Eastwestrob]

Here's an estimation:

[Spatula]

This really ties everything together. I wouldn't mind if someone built something on the empty triangular property on Northwest and Hillsborough next to it. Maybe 10-15 floors; that would be perfect. The connection would be complete.

[cthayes75]

Good point !! This may give the State Employee a place to stay downtown instead out on the beltline somewhere.

[rooster8]

Any bets on how long the one story buildings across the street last?

[ChiefJoJo]

Any bets on how long the one story buildings across the street last?

[RALNATIVE]

Sorry to double post, but I was just reading the N&O article again, and it seems to really emphsize that these hotels will be competing with the lafayette, reynolds, and other area hotels. I just don't see it. When I add up existing and planned rooms that are in walking distance to the CC I get:

Sheraton- 355

Marriot- @400

Lafayette- @125

Clarion- 202

Reynolds- @70

HI/Aloft- @200

for a total of 1352 rooms. For a refernce the Koury Cenetr in Greensboro alone has almost 1100. I think the market can absorb these and a lot more. The CC's target audience is midsize conferences. I think DanRNC said they had just booked a 1500 Chamber Exec conference. Even with all the planned rooms that isn't enough. Anyway, this is exciting news!! Wooo-hooo!

[Subway Scoundrel]

WRAL has an article up now... I probably shouldn't have, but I was too curious... I looked at the comments on that page, and it's truly amazing what some people are saying:

I worked downtown for 10 years--you couldnt get me to go downtown even if they giving away free beer. Downtown doesnt need a face lift-- they need a new Wal-Mart super center if they want to attract people. Downtown is dead except for the people who work there or go to the convention center. If anyone knows of a single business downtown that is open at night that attacks locals-- sure would like to know the name of it.

To some extent, it's good to know that this perception exists, given we are in a little UP coccoon here on the web. This is the sort of perception that downtown is facing outside the city. We should thank our lucky stars that we actually have a Mayor (I know he's not perfect) that favors downtown. Otherwise, all of the anti-progress whiners in Smithfield and God knows where else would have their way. As far as I'm concerned, they can stay out in the boonies and leave DT to the rest of us.

[Transplant]

WRAL has an article up now... I probably shouldn't have, but I was too curious... I looked at the comments on that page, and it's truly amazing what some people are saying:

I worked downtown for 10 years--you couldnt get me to go downtown even if they giving away free beer. Downtown doesnt need a face lift-- they need a new Wal-Mart super center if they want to attract people. Downtown is dead except for the people who work there or go to the convention center. If anyone knows of a single business downtown that is open at night that attacks locals-- sure would like to know the name of it.

To some extent, it's good to know that this perception exists, given we are in a little UP coccoon here on the web. This is the sort of perception that downtown is facing outside the city. We should thank our lucky stars that we actually have a Mayor (I know he's not perfect) that favors downtown. Otherwise, all of the anti-progress whiners in Smithfield and God knows where else would have their way. As far as I'm concerned, they can stay out in the boonies and leave DT to the rest of us.

[reed]

WRAL has an article up now... I probably shouldn't have, but I was too curious... I looked at the comments on that page, and it's truly amazing what some people are saying:

I worked downtown for 10 years--you couldnt get me to go downtown even if they giving away free beer. Downtown doesnt need a face lift-- they need a new Wal-Mart super center if they want to attract people. Downtown is dead except for the people who work there or go to the convention center. If anyone knows of a single business downtown that is open at night that attacks locals-- sure would like to know the name of it.

"If anyone knows of a single business downtown that is open at night that attacks locals...." LOL at attacking the locals. Maybe that's what they're used to at the Super Wal Mart.

[dmccall]

Wasn't the latest public shooting in Raleigh at the Mexican bar right in front of the New Hope Church Rd. Super Wal-Mart?

[tkd720man]

I worked downtown for 10 years--you couldnt get me to go downtown even if they giving away free beer. Downtown doesnt need a face lift-- they need a new Wal-Mart super center if they want to attract people. Downtown is dead except for the people who work there or go to the convention center. If anyone knows of a single business downtown that is open at night that attacks locals-- sure would like to know the name of it.

[RALNATIVE]

My experience is that the people who make these comments have been in Raleigh so long that they can't wrap their heads around the idea of the city developing a functioning downtown. They still think it's a sleepy southern state capital, and that all of the rich folks with their money and their pie-in-the-sky dreams should pack up and take the circus someplace else.

They'll never acknowledge the progress, but every mis-step will be confirmation to them that the very idea of downtown revitalization was a "scam" all along.

I say you forget about trying to convince these people. Just remind them from time to time about the latest downtown restaurants to add crow to their menu.