IN PROGRESS: Blue Cross Headquarters

[mental757]

I think it is a net positive in many other ways (most of which have already been stated).

1100 jobs a couple hundred feet from the new Commuter rail connections to Warwick and Wickford (even Amtrak regional trains from URI/Kingston and Westerly might fetch some commuters from those areas) will do nothing less than bolster the use of the new service.

The office space they vacate will become available to the rest of the open market in sizes not available currently. Meaning that right now any compnay looking at a relo to Providence either has to find rehabbed mill space (ALCO, etc.) for smaller firms or build somthing new for medium/larger firms which is too costlyfor most companies that have any interest in coming here to begin with. The current BCBS spaces might become the way Providence actaully gets a new company because a whole new list of inventory sizes and costs will become available for the first time in, well, a long time.

I think BCBS has done it's homework on the costs of moving to this site. I actually think the cost savings from the consolidation per year will be mor than the 1 million figure they quoted. There are so many intagibles in having your workforce and efforts under one roof. I also think the point that Cotuit makes about having plenty of other 'high-profile' spaces to build can;t be overlooked. E@B is still out there for the next company that MIGHT have taken the INT II location and we;d be stuck with an exposed pad/parking garage for 3 years...

[mvince03]

Yeah, I understand why Stamford, CT figures so prominately in NYC based corperate plans. But I am also envious. Stamford, CT had this great plan back in the 80/90's to attract corporate offices to it's city, away from NYC, and it worked. They probably had a great tax plan also. Have you seen the skyline of Stamford? There are many class A office spaces there.

[runawayjim]

there's more than just UBS in stamford that's class A. however, i am not a huge fan of the buildings. while they look impressive, they also look a little like it's just a big suburban office park.

the WWE building (to put in providence perspective) is to downtown stamford as ALCO or the armory (the building) is to downtown providence (by downtown providence, i mean the financial district). it's close, but still about a mile or so away.

[jencoleslaw]

K, my question went unanswered the first time, so I'll try asking another way: would this be Providence's first LEED-certified building?

Love the renderings. Hey, glass.

[JJK5]

um, i don't think so. I think the Gordon Ave incubator is LEED certified. But i imagine this would be downtown's first.

but, LEED certified is also the first to go when there are cost overruns, so i'm not gonna hold my breath for it.

[Baines]

I would be more concerned about Newport Grand in relation to E@B than I would be with BCBS going to Waterplace. If they are planning to spend a billion bucks in Newport, do they have a few hundreds millions left for Providence? I don't think BCBS being an anchor tenant was what made E@B possible, they were ready to go with speculation, and they have been marketing Providence nationally for a while now. I think if Newport Grand doesn't suck up all their attention/money, that E@B is still on.

[glassandsteel]

Though I'm certainly happy that this project is finally official and on the horizon (although I really wasn't expecting it until the two current towers were done and the units facing that side were sold), I have to say that I'm greatly dissappointed with it's design.

Now I know I'm at risk of sounding like a Brussatian glass-hater but I've always found most glass structures to hide their unoriginality with their shine (though the exceptions tend to rock my world) and this, to me, is no exception. I think this is a critical structure to creating a balance in the district but I suppose that's a bold claim and I should explain.

First, I'd like to say that I had total faith in GTech and the first phase of this parcel but they both somewhat failed to convince me that there could not have been a better or more fitting style to go in it's place. In a neighborhood where the primary visual attractions are the State House, the Masonic Temple, the mall, and Citizens' HQ (all of which are fantastic, despite architectural differences), it would seem that the architectural goal would be to "wow" the observer. Though these two don't destroy the feel of the area by any means, they are a bit less inspiring and set a precedent for the current wave of development that is currently filling these parcels by showing what the commission will allow (as this may show).

Second, it's an any-where building. The quality of life in Providence that we all speak so fondly of is largely due to it's unique sense of place. We have a historical and predominantly intact urban fabric to thank for this and one of the observations that we can take from the past is that there has always been a great pride eminating from a lot of our buildings. They are grand, proud and have character. This, on the other hand, is a standard glass office building. Go to any city and you'll see this everywhere, come to Providence and you'll see ONE that is only a year old and a bit less standard.

Now I don't mind Gtech, OneTen, or the Chase center, they're all predominantly glass but stand out in a crowd. What worries me is to see those three, this project, and the original rendering for E@B, and consider that a vast majority of the major new proposals are initially in the glass class. It poses to dramatically change the skyline to a predominantly glass one. We can see that almost everywhere else in America.

Now that I've gone on a rant about the larger scale implications (as I boringly tend to do), I'd just like to summarize by reiterating that this would be a big, uninspired, glass office building right in front of the state house.

If it's gotta be shiny, at least propose a more stunning design. D-

P.S. The apartment building in front of the train station would still hold the crown as the most boring building there.

[mental757]

PROJO: "State official urges Blue Cross to seek cheaper office space"

http://www.projo.com/news/content/BLUE_FOL...NP.33a3c97.html

[Mij]

PROJO: "State official urges Blue Cross to seek cheaper office space"

http://www.projo.com/news/content/BLUE_FOL...NP.33a3c97.html

[eltron]

um, i don't think so. I think the Gordon Ave incubator is LEED certified. But i imagine this would be downtown's first.

but, LEED certified is also the first to go when there are cost overruns, so i'm not gonna hold my breath for it.

[Cotuit]

Hmmm, Pavolino lost out on landing the HQ and is losing rent money in the move, and then he says this is going to destroy Cathedral and LaSalle Squares. Excuse me if I'm suspect of the motives behind his assessment. And how exactly are those areas thriving now? And he wants tax stabilization for his parking lots. We wouldn't have so many parking lots if he didn't randomly tear sh*t down on holidays when no one is paying attention. I'm sure if he got tax stabilization we would suddenly see buildings sprouting out of the asphalt.

I understand why the state may be concerned about this move, but how about suggesting some places they didn't look at. I'm having trouble figuring out where they can find 325k sq. feet under one roof within the city. They've been looking to consolidate their offices for a couple years now, has the Governor or anyone else from the State done anything to help them find an affordable location (within the city!)?

[runawayjim]

i wonder how many people will be against this building simply because they don't like that BCBS is going there and fight the height variances.

[brick]

has the Governor or anyone else from the State done anything to help them find an affordable location (within the city!)?

[Cotuit]

I know you share my cynicism, but I suspect the Governer would be happier if they decided to build a sprawling campus in Smithfield or Western Cranston.

[Garris]

Interesting discussion all around...

While I generally agree with all of Cotuit's feelings regarding the move, generally agree with glassandsteel's assessment of the building (kind of an "anywhere" design, especially unmoving considering how unique and contextual the two neighboring condo towers have turned out and how close this is to the statehouse), and generally agree that the move is good for BCBS (always better and a huge cost savings to have everything under one roof), I think we all need to realize that BCBS is hardly one of the more popular companies in the area and is especially disliked in the medical field.

There are some broader policy/financial issues going on as a subtext here:

- United Healthcare makes about 38 million in RI (that they wanted to ship out of state)...

- BCBS wants to bankroll a new building...

- Virtually all the hospitals in the area are suffering considerably (and now United is putting the screws on poor little Fatima Hosptial in N. Prov)

- RI is losing quite a bit of medical brainpower and pull regionally and nationally due to our poor reimbursement vs other neighboring states (popularly attributed to the low rates of the two big insurers)... There are medical services you either can't get in RI or can't get at high quality because MD's in those fields have left RI...

You spot the broader trends...

While I love shiny new buildings as much as anyone, I think some of the raised eyebrows here (and regarding some of United's recent actions) are quite justified and some broader policy and economic viability issues are worthy of discussion by our elected reps, regardless of the outcome of this project.

For people just interested in the building, that's OK... Just don't expect it to fly through without scrutiny due to some of the larger issues that go way beyond urban planning...

- Garris

[runawayjim]

i'm not sure i understand the criticism of the renders. they look pretty basic (like only one step above the renders we saw for E@B). we have to remember that this building is meant to fit in with the other 2 buildings on the site, which restricts them a bit. i was expecting that it'd end up being more similar to those buildings than it is. i actually like the renders and think it has some potential to be a pretty attractive building.

[Jerry2]

A lot of the smaller businesses like Calypso Cafe on Westminster and Cafe La France on Empire rely heavily on the morning/lunchtime crowd @ BCBS. While I'm no fan of Paolino, he has somewhat of a point regardless if he is a hypocrite in relation to the ridiculous rent he charges on his own properties.

When real interest started developing in Capital Center after the mall was built, I had high hopes that the area could attract some corporations and and move business back to the city. While G-Tech was a positive move, almost everything else that has sprouted around this area is housing. I feel like we had a big exciting opportunity to tie in better transportation and cascade new development initiatives into the CBD and the state has squandered those opportunities. Even with the 195-relo and all the freed up land, there is no concrete plan to do anything with it except auction it off among all the non-profit hospitals and universities. All the momentum that Pvd has had over the last few years..... and we couldn't come up with some sort of concrete development guidelines. The community was more concerned about blocking views of the State House and brick over glass. What about the fact that the city of Pvd and State of RI are bankrupt and desperately need more investment? Or the fact that thousands of people flee the state each year and the only net gain,if any, is compounded by illegal immigration? I feel like the leadership that represents the city and state is incredibly weak and the fact that the mayor is pushing this move is pathetic. I have almost lost hope that the city can become anything more than a Boston suburb.

[mental757]

but at the same time, if the design was for a glamorous 'palace' the concerns the governor raises might actually have a bit more teeth. We can't expect this building to be designed in any way above the basic and/or most cost-effective way and materials, otherwise it would be a boondoggle. If BCBS is ordering all new mohogany and cherry finishes with expenseive tile and such, then there is a problem. There is a fine line that has to be followed fropm both BCBS and the State's perspective if this is to meet everyone's needs and concerns.

[Liamlunchtray]

Renderings:

http://www.smma.com/services/portfolio.cfm...p;project_id=19

[Lone Ranger]

^^^mental raises an excellent point.

To add another to that: this building has neither the siting nor the height of a signature building, so why would we expect the design of signature building?

This building appears inoffensive. It fills a need -- actually two needs, IM(ESH)O. Providence needs more glass, not to mention more curves. Also, the new tower will serve to continue to obscure & overshadow views of the AmEx building, which is a plus, and it will do so without obscuring many views of the Statehouse, another plus.

What can I say, I'm a fan.

[prudence]

The problem with this project and what is happening around Waterplace Park is that it is essentially moving downtown from where we all knew it, to between Union Station and the State House. This becomes especially true if 110 falls apart, the core of downtown and the financial district will really start to change. The forward thinking conversion that RISD did will be the norm, rather than large scale employers and financial institutions locating in the old buildings. They are now clearly going to be directed and interested in the mall/statehouse area and our old financial core will still be filled with question marks, or gobs more residential.

[runawayjim]

The problem with this project and what is happening around Waterplace Park is that it is essentially moving downtown from where we all knew it, to between Union Station and the State House. This becomes especially true if 110 falls apart, the core of downtown and the financial district will really start to change. The forward thinking conversion that RISD did will be the norm, rather than large scale employers and financial institutions locating in the old buildings. They are now clearly going to be directed and interested in the mall/statehouse area and our old financial core will still be filled with question marks, or gobs more residential.

[glassandsteel]

Some counter points (not to be argumentative).

-RunawayJim- There are three distinct materials that comprise the first two towers. If they were merely limiting the style of this tower to something that compliments the other two based on materials (or combinations of), then that would still give them 6 other possible options. I'm hoping that's not the case though seeing how it's mostly the shape that I'm dissatisfied with.

-Mental757- There's a lot of wiggle room between "glamorous palace" and "the basic and/or most cost-effective". Plus, there're are a lot of spacial adjustments that would allow for a building's shape to be altered without having to affect the cost significantly. It's not just materials that make it.

-BCBS is just leasing space, not financing the project, so they'll save money even if they're paying a higher rate than they currently are thanks to the streamlining of operations.

-There shouldn't be a commission for quality within the district if excuses are going to be made that absolve developers of such responsibility. If the commission is irrelevant, then it serves no purpose in exsisting.

-Think less in terms of downtown "moving" north and more in "growing" north. This will strengthen the whole.

-LoneRanger- The siting of this building is very prominant from the north.

-This specific proposal (BCBS in this spot) has been in the works for quite some time now. I'd suggest that the governor pay a little more attention to what's going on outside his window instead of being a reactionary hob-knob. If he had done so, he would have surely been able to have some influence in the matter. His day-late reaction just shows that he's not doing his job. Though I'm pretty sure that somebody just advised him to speak on the matter so as to cover his hiney in case it becomes an issue (him doing so, of course, would make it an issue and a self-fulfilling prophecy)

-Garris- I'm not sure if those particular issues still apply if BCBS ends up saving money on this move but I understand that they're not exactly known in the most positive light. I would imagine that unless the numbers were actually available to the public, the common belief would be that this is just going to a wasteful use of the money that policy holders would rather be keeping in their pockets. I think it falls on BCBS to provide a thorough explanation of all the technical aspects of this move to it's customers. I'm not sure how else this might effect their service though, so I might be missing some of the other implications.

-Jerry2- Thanks for making me feel like less of a bummer on the topic. Two corporations DID move in, GTech and BCBS. The current ratio of housing structures to office structures is an equal 3-3. After BCBS and Capitol Cove are done it will be 4-4, still even. If you count the bank and the hotel across from the state house into the commercial slot then housing falls into the lower slice of the pie.

Nothing else you pointed out is relevant to the topic of BCBS being a tenant in an office building being constructed on a parcel that's already half occupied. I understand that you have a persistant sense of dissappointment about Providence but I'm asking that you focus your dissappointments into the proper channels or arguing points. I'm not trying to insult but critique you, I truly would like to understand your point of view better but unrelated statements just blur your point.

Well anyways, my consistent self consciousness about ranting has failed it's purpose and I'm well beyond the point I started out to make so I'll just end this here.

[mental757]

PROJO: "New Blue Cross plan has all 1,100 employees fully covered"

http://www.projo.com/news/content/BLUECROS...DA.330e1b2.html

PROJO Editorial: http://www.projo.com/opinion/editorials/co...82.195dbf5.html

[Cotuit]

Good editorial from the Journal, I wish they went into the pros and cons a bit more though.