The Ellington

[rooster8]

A few thoughts:

-Seeing that Biltmore Ave is one lane heading north, it appears there will be traffic backups if people are allowed to turn left into the "entry plaza."

-Is the Lexington side just a blank wall with decorative panels? I really hope they put in some retail.

-So they're replacing 31 Biltmore with a plain brick box? Surely they could keep the existing structure (at least the facade) and modernize the rear.

-Are the buildings on the corner going to have the "Ellington" treatment as well? It looks like they have been changed/"refacaded" to match the Ellington.

[Lootles]

It would be interesting if someone could take the panoramic shot and photoshop in the renderings of some of the larger downtown projects to get some perspective on how all of these projects will change the skyline once completed. Probably too difficult a task, I know, but it would be interesting to see. Even simulations instead of renderings of the other projects might be a bit easier.

[voyager12]

I think it's an attractive rendering and looks like something that would fit in perfectly down here in Charlotte. It will no doubt add to Asheville's skyline and I just hope that through the review process improvements are made so it fits in better with it's more funkier surroundings. The whole looks rather too "yuppie" right now. Although it's probably wishful thinking on my part that Asheville won't get Aspenized and become a place only for the rich...it's already happening.

[hauntedheadnc]

A few thoughts:

-Seeing that Biltmore Ave is one lane heading north, it appears there will be traffic backups if people are allowed to turn left into the "entry plaza."

[orulz]

The 2 and 3-story buildings at 37 and 39 Biltmore are not going to be re-clad in anything. That is just a massing rendering, to show the scale of nearby buildings. The same goes for the building to the north; it's not being brick-wall-ified; it will stay as-is.

This development does a pretty poor job of meeting the street, on Biltmore, Lexington, AND Aston. I don't quite like how it's pulled back from the street on Biltmore behind the grill/bar courtyard. This can works well when the building is on a corner (like The Noodle Shop, Bistro 1896, et al) but mid-block, the setback is just disruptive to the streetscape. The Bank of America building on Pritchard Park has a similar setback behind a courtyard and I find that to be very disruptive.

The murals along Lexington are a cop-out. Ideally, I'd like to see the hotel lobby, porte cochere, and parking deck entrances go along Lexington. This would match with the porte cochere for the church across the street. Biltmore should be pedestrian access only. A configuration like this might be tough to pull off, however, given the physical constraints of the lot.

On the topic of physical constraints, I'm curious why this enormous project ended up on a tiny, parceled-together, oddly-shaped lot, when there's the huge parking lot across the street from Barley's just begging to be developed. I would not be surprised if the Grove Park Inn approached the people who own that lot, and were turned down. I get the feeling that those people are in it for the "long haul" with that investment.

37/39 Biltmore (immediately to the south of the Ellington):

[hauntedheadnc]

The downtown commission or whoever it is that major projects have to placate before going before the city council tend to be pretty good stewards of downtown... I'm thinking that they'll require a few changes before approving this and sending in on up the chain of command. Is there anyone we can write to though, to make sure they know all of our concerns? Now that we've gotten the question of recladding out of the way, that leaves the manner in which the building meets the streets, and traffic, plus any changes we'd like to see in the building itself, like my preference for a bit more deco than neo in the balconies and such. Who can we talk to about this?

Edit: Thanks for assauging some fears, orulz. I really appreciate it! Also... I thought the lot across from Barley's was city-owned. Not the case?

[orulz]

Also... I thought the lot across from Barley's was city-owned. Not the case?

[archiham04]

that leaves the manner in which the building meets the streets, and traffic...

[Lootles]

As of 12/29/2006, this is owned by "King James Properties LLC" - a name which means absolutely nothing to me - but the address given is 2 Vanderbilt Place.

[orulz]

The King James Apartments on Charlotte are owned by Pinnacle Ridge Holding LLC. Pinnacle Ridge apparently has some involvement in the Penny's building as well. That would further reinforce the link to Public Interest Projects.

[Jones_]

Definitely iconographic in design....probably good for the city's skyline and image. It does need to address the street better...Asheville is a city that is known for its on the ground experience and a commercial dead zone beneath such a large building is not consistant with typical Asheville City fabric.

[orulz]

Noticed this and several other interesting projects are on today's TRC agenda:

5. Pre-application conference for the project identified as Park Side Condominiums located on South Spruce Street and

Marjorie Street.

[pyalberice]

I'm pleased that Hauntedhead had a guest editorial in the local paper. Personally, I don't feel insulted by the comment about 12 South Lexington, which our firm, Camille-Alberice Architects designed. We think it's a cool building as do the 42 other buyers. We were also part of the development team that put the project together and the initial pricing and sales with the exception of the 4 penthouse units, were geared to the local middle income market. We think that the middle income market is the least served by the current housing development models. Affordable, workforce and luxury being addressed from a variety of efforts and sources.

I like this forum very much.

[archiham04]

We think that the middle income market is the least served by the current housing development models. Affordable, workforce and luxury being addressed from a variety of efforts and sources.

[hauntedheadnc]

Yes, welcome to the forum and thank you for your investment in downtown. Most of us here can only hope for much, much more in the future.

I am glad that you did not find my commentary insulting, becuase while I personally find 12 S. Lexington to be a bland building, I do prefer it over the parking lot that it replaced. I am certainly not a NIMBY. My main complaint with most of the new buildings going up downtown is that their selling point is their view of all the beautiful buildings downtown, while they themselves do not contribute to that beauty. Projects downtown lately have ranged from the dull, such as 21 Battery Park, to the ugly such as Zona Lofts and Griffin Apartments, to the chintzy such as the remodelled Interstate Motel condos. No one has built anything even remotely approaching the equal of the Jackson Building, the S&W Building (which is soon to sprout a tumorlike growth explicitly designed not to match the existing building), any of the churches, city hall or the courthouse, or even the small art deco gems such as the Woolworth Building. It seems as if they're leaching off the beauty around them, resting on past architects' accomplishments instead of accomplishing anything themselves. There has got to be a way to build beautiful, but economical buildings. I do not buy the argument that it's simply too expensive to building a building that someone would want to show off on a postcard. After all, somehow we found a way to build hundreds of them all around town already, and it's not as though 80 years ago architects simply knew something we don't know now. If anything, we know more now and we ought to use that knowledge instead of building big square boxes.

Edit: Let me also say this. Sometimes, even if it really, truly is too expensive to do something interesting with the architecture (after all, the Chinese building boom is wreaking havoc on America's already dwindling supply of gargoyles, just as it is cement and steel ) sometimes something as simple as a facade treatment or a bright coat of paint will make a building fit in amongst Asheville's vibrancy much better. Imagine a building like 12 S. Lexington with a face of rough-cut stone, or smooth river stones -- stunning! Or imagine the cementwork at 21 Battery Park painted a bright cerulean blue with white trim against all that greyish brick -- funky! Weird even, but what else is Asheville all about? Asheville needs more color and more life in its architecture and what we're getting lately is deadly dull.

[hauntedheadnc]

A tall building in downtown Asheville? OhnoesOMGtehhorrors!

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll...ID=200770605120

NIMBY's at their finest.

[rooster8]

Elaine Lite is quickly becoming the queen of the NIMBYs. I think she needs to focus on steep slope development and leave urban infill alone.

[otis-t]

The King James Apartments on Charlotte are owned by Pinnacle Ridge Holding LLC. Pinnacle Ridge apparently has some involvement in the Penny's building as well. That would further reinforce the link to Public Interest Projects.

[hauntedheadnc]

The NIMBY storm is swirling around this project on the AC-T forums, the Mountain X-Press forums, and naturally PARC has jumped in too.

I will admit my misgivings about this building. It's okay but it's not great and if it were up to me, I would modify the architecture some, fix the way the building greets all three streets involved, and add some flashy deco touches to all those expanses of blank wall. Something akin to the reliefs at Rockefeller Center, perhaps. However, the height doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Actually, if I could get my hands on the Ellington's plans and change them as much as I pleased, here's what I would do:

-- Preserve the building at 31 Biltmore Avenue, perhaps connecting it the main structure for use as hotel offices, a restaurant or nightclub, or even storage. Just so long as it is protected.

-- Build a courtyard on the empty lot between 31 Biltmore and the next building down for use as a sculpture courtyard perhaps -- just a little place for residents of the building, hotel guests, and others to hang out.

-- Using the long rectangular lot fronting Aston and Lexington, build a rectangular building stairstepping up to a height probably taller than currently proposed to include all the space planned now. Round the edges for that art deco look. You just can't go wrong with round edges and shoulders. The model should be the art deco hotels of South Beach.

-- If there is to be no retail or restaurant frontage on the main structure, at the very least include windows even if they don't look into anything other than offices or the kitchens, or the damn laundry room. Anything is better than a big blank wall.

-- Restrict vehicle access to, probably, Lexington Avenue.

What would you all do if you could?

[rooster8]

Downtown Commission defers decision for now: http://citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...ID=200770608036

I'm glad they're not rushing into this.

[hauntedheadnc]

I like how they're leaning toward retail along the Lexington and Aston frontage instead of some half-assed "art wall."

[pyalberice]

The Commission has asked that the architect look further into reconfiguring the parking structure so that retail space could be accomodated on Aston or Lexington. I think the art wall idea should be pursued because this is an arts destination city and there are many artists in this area who should be given the opportunity to display their work. The concept needs more refinement and the program needs to be better articulated but to me, an art display will be better for the community than a retail space where the workers make slightly more than minimum wage selling consumer goods made off-shore.

Please keep in mind that the guidelines in the UDO do not require retail space, only openings to break up the wall mass. The architect could put in punched openings in the masonry wall and we would see car bumpers and fenders instead of art, and that would meet the UDO requirements.

In our meetings with the Ellington development group it appears that they are serious about making a positive contribution to the community at a variety of levels. I think that their efforts have been underappreciated because the discussion so far has been focused on height and style.

Also, please keep in mind that the equivalent square footage of the project could be accomdated in 17 or 18 stories above Biltmore Ave if the design maximized the developable area of the site. Obviously it would be lower, which may placate those who have a problem with height, but it would be a weaker design.

[hauntedheadnc]

Nobody wants a lower building except for the NIMBY's, and the rest of us only want a facade that adds to the street instead of taking away from it. If you want to see a big blank wall along the street, the dead zone behind the Biltmore Building, on College Street, is one more doozy. None of us want a repeat of that. Even if there's a gigantic mural spilling along the entire frontage, it's still a big blank wall. Blank walls kill street life.

To build a project that does not include retail along the streetfront is the epitome of a project that wants to leach off the city's existing vitality without contributing to it. Besides, that retail space could just as easily be leased to a law firm or a software company where the workers make much more than minimum wage.

[macrocosim144]

Nobody wants a lower building except for the NIMBY's, and the rest of us only want a facade that adds to the street instead of taking away from it. If you want to see a big blank wall along the street, the dead zone behind the Biltmore Building, on College Street, is one more doozy. None of us want a repeat of that. Even if there's a gigantic mural spilling along the entire frontage, it's still a big blank wall. Blank walls kill street life.

To build a project that does not include retail along the streetfront is the epitome of a project that wants to leach off the city's existing vitality without contributing to it. Besides, that retail space could just as easily be leased to a law firm or a software company where the workers make much more than minimum wage.

[pyalberice]

"I think you will find that a good portion of these so called NIMBYs do not intend to "preserve Asheville" they merely want to inhibit this culturally rich community from becoming a more powerful player in the state. As the city grows and adds voters it will reshape the electoral landscape of the state even more. That may scare some conservatives desiring dominion, as they do."

I'm not sure about this. I don't think NIMBYs are liberal or conservative. I think they are uncompfortable with change and do not believe that the future can be better.