Does Mobile need a new mall?

[PortofBama]

I wish Mobile had another mall we only have one and I don't consider springdale a mall mor estrip mallish to me .Huntville has 2, B-Ham has like 4 or 5, Montgomery has 3 I think . The malbis mall is fine and the taner outlet is ok also but its in baldwin county . It's time for mobile to step it up I personaly think that we are able to support another mall .On saturdays the mall is swamped with people some times shoulder to shoulder and lets not talk about holidays I mean we ahve neighboring baldwim,mississippi,some florida and counties north of mobile shopping in bel air and finding a place to park can be stressful and just change your mind about shopping .

[The Dude]

Could we use a new shopping venue? Yes Does it need to be in the form of a mall? No. I think Mobile is in dire need of a mixed-use town center. I just got back from a tour of Dallas, Tx. town centers and they have many successful town centers in urban and suburban locations.

[HSVTiger]

I wish Mobile had another mall we only have one and I don't consider springdale a mall mor estrip mallish to me .Huntville has 2, B-Ham has like 4 or 5, Montgomery has 3 I think . The malbis mall is fine and the taner outlet is ok also but its in baldwin county . It's time for mobile to step it up I personaly think that we are able to support another mall .On saturdays the mall is swamped with people some times shoulder to shoulder and lets not talk about holidays I mean we ahve neighboring baldwim,mississippi,some florida and counties north of mobile shopping in bel air and finding a place to park can be stressful and just change your mind about shopping .

[PortofBama]

Huntsville has three more venues in the works, Bridge Street,(lifestyle center) 2 million sq ft, Westin hotel, Market Square site downtown, construction begins this summer, 2 hotels, condos entertainment center, and The Shoppes at Riverbend proposal in Madison lifestyle center larger than the Summit in BHM.

So yes Mobile is ripe for more retail venues. Wasn't something planned along I-10 somewhere at one time?

[kayman]

Just a note of fact, "malls" persay enclosed centers, aren't the biggest crazy of developers nowadays. Most retail center developers are either constructing power centers, 600k-900k lifestyle center or strip centers, or mixed use projects of various sizes. The only problems with building "malls" is that retailers must see a purpose of wanting to locate or open in certain DMA due to economics and population with a certain # of miles radius. At this point, Baldwin County seems to be the high growth with the economics to tow.

As The Dude said, a mixed used development would be a better fit at this point for Mobile.

To know what "town center", is read the first part of this article:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/11/news/fortu...ifestylecenter/

That is better way to inform what it is rather than me describe it in detail. It is basically a lifestyle center with a different name.

[The Dude]

Just a note of fact, "malls" persay enclosed centers, aren't the biggest crazy of developers nowadays. Most retail center developers are either constructing power centers, 600k-900k lifestyle center or strip centers, or mixed use projects of various sizes. The only problems with building "malls" is that retailers must see a purpose of wanting to locate or open in certain DMA due to economics and population with a certain # of miles radius. At this point, Baldwin County seems to be the high growth with the economics to tow.

As The Dude said, a mixed used development would be a better fit at this point for Mobile.

To know what "town center", is read the first part of this article:

http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/11/news/fortu...ifestylecenter/

That is better way for to inform what it is rather than me describe it in detail. It is basically a lifestyle center with a different name.

[kayman]

Actually you are close. A Lifestyle center that replicates many of the things we like about downtowns and urban locations w/o actually being urban. A town center or mixed use development is an actual urban location b/c it has not only retail but condos, apartments, hotels, that make the place a 24/7 location rather than a 9am - 9pm location that a retail oriented lifestyle center or mall is.

Here are some photos to better illustrate what a town center is.

Here is Southlake Town Square in Southlake, Texas. At first glance you might think you were looking at an old downtown that survived suburban migration, in reality this town center was constructed just a few years prior. You might also assume that this is a lifestyle center. A lifestyle center contains retail only is merely an outdoor mall. Here at the Southlake Town square you have open parks, walking trails, condos, apartments, a civil court, retail and everything else you'd find in a traditional downtown, yet it is brand new and in a suburban location.

Office over retail @ Southlake Town Square

Hilton hotel terminating this vista at Southlake Town Square

The major differential between lifestyle centers and town squares (new urbanism) is the presence of residential units that give the location a 24/7 presence.

Here a civic building terminates a large open park vista here at Southlake Town Square.

[PortofBama]

now since i'm educated on town centers I would rather see one buing built in Mobile . There is a small town center if i'm not mistaken that is near sprinhill hospital . Some pics of that town center reminded me of Dauphin street in Downtown Mobile. The Orange grove are even better the Civic center area would e good sites for one

[nitek_of_mobile]

I wish Mobile had another mall we only have one and I don't consider springdale a mall mor estrip mallish to me .Huntville has 2, B-Ham has like 4 or 5, Montgomery has 3 I think . The malbis mall is fine and the taner outlet is ok also but its in baldwin county . It's time for mobile to step it up I personaly think that we are able to support another mall .On saturdays the mall is swamped with people some times shoulder to shoulder and lets not talk about holidays I mean we ahve neighboring baldwim,mississippi,some florida and counties north of mobile shopping in bel air and finding a place to park can be stressful and just change your mind about shopping .

[austin356]

I do not think Mobile NEEDS a new traditional mall now. I think Bel Air should be completely refurbished and "upscaled". I think the owners should develop some of the parking lots into hotel/retail/office/housing (which will require some parking decks to offset lot lost). I say that Bel Air should be redone instead of making a new mall is because if a new one was to be built it would be in far far west Mobile and will only drive the population center farther out. I dont want to stop anyone from building a mall out there and know it would be beneficial to the area as a whole, but I think a makeover and expansion of Bel Air can be plenty, if combined with a mid-size lifestyle center somewhere around town.

[PortofBama]

Mobile County benefits from the fact that the retail hub of the entire metro is still centralized in the city of Mobile around Airport Blvd/I-65. Also, the Springdale/Bel-Air/Festival Centre shopping complex was firmly established decades ago and is more durable against other regional shopping districts. Yes, Greater B'ham may have four of five enclosed malls, but three are sadly dead/dying. In terms of regional shopping centers, Montgomery isn't all that hot either. Montgomery Mall is a shell of itself; Eastdale Mall is lackluster and The Shoppes at EastChase is nigh Stepfordish.

I really hated how Springdale Mall, tragically, was never developed to its full potential and devolved into an anonymous power center. Before Lowes and Wal-Mart were constructed north of the Mall, Springdale was going to be expanded northward from McRae's department store to Emogene Street. Mobile could have had two hulking super-regional behemoths across the street from one another.

Mobile County and, moreover, South Alabama should attract more upscale stores and restaurants. We STILL lack Banana Republic, J. Crew, Coach and other lifestyle retailers. I want to see PF Chang's in Spring Hill and Bravo Cucina in Spanish Fort. Hopefully, Legacy Village and Eastern Shore Centre will continue to evolve into upscale regional shopping destinations.

[bayourat15]

Just got back today from Destin and.........wow? I neaux its a resort town ,but the Commons Mall looks like something from Disney World! For Mobile a major plan is needed. A big goldmine, for the port city ,is the Tillmans Corner area. All that land around wallyworld off of Rangeline Rd. is prime real estate. Mobile needs to annex while they can. A article in the mobile press a few weeks back told that this was the area BassPro shops was looking at. But Tillmans corner had no incentives (money) cause its not city like Spainsh Fort. Also a few years back ,as some may remember , Six Flags or Disney one of the two, had plans of building a park in this booming area. In the future ,if plained right , with outlets or a mall like the one in Destin or the eastern shore, could boost the area greatly.

"Damn the Torpedos, Mobile is Full Speed Ahead!"(bayourat 2007)

[PortofBama]

Just got back today from Destin and.........wow? I neaux its a resort town ,but the Commons Mall looks like something from Disney World! For Mobile a major plan is needed. A big goldmine, for the port city ,is the Tillmans Corner area. All that land around wallyworld off of Rangeline Rd. is prime real estate. Mobile needs to annex while they can. A article in the mobile press a few weeks back told that this was the area BassPro shops was looking at. But Tillmans corner had no incentives (money) cause its not city like Spainsh Fort. Also a few years back ,as some may remember , Six Flags or Disney one of the two, had plans of building a park in this booming area. In the future ,if plained right , with outlets or a mall like the one in Destin or the eastern shore, could boost the area greatly.

"Damn the Torpedos, Mobile is Full Speed Ahead!"(bayourat 2007)

[nitek_of_mobile]

I do not think Mobile NEEDS a new traditional mall now. I think Bel Air should be completely refurbished and "upscaled". I think the owners should develop some of the parking lots into hotel/retail/office/housing (which will require some parking decks to offset lot lost). I say that Bel Air should be redone instead of making a new mall is because if a new one was to be built it would be in far far west Mobile and will only drive the population center farther out. I dont want to stop anyone from building a mall out there and know it would be beneficial to the area as a whole, but I think a makeover and expansion of Bel Air can be plenty, if combined with a mid-size lifestyle center somewhere around town.

[nitek_of_mobile]

Just got back today from Destin and.........wow? I neaux its a resort town ,but the Commons Mall looks like something from Disney World! For Mobile a major plan is needed. A big goldmine, for the port city ,is the Tillmans Corner area. All that land around wallyworld off of Rangeline Rd. is prime real estate. Mobile needs to annex while they can. A article in the mobile press a few weeks back told that this was the area BassPro shops was looking at. But Tillmans corner had no incentives (money) cause its not city like Spainsh Fort. Also a few years back ,as some may remember , Six Flags or Disney one of the two, had plans of building a park in this booming area. In the future ,if plained right , with outlets or a mall like the one in Destin or the eastern shore, could boost the area greatly.

"Damn the Torpedos, Mobile is Full Speed Ahead!"(bayourat 2007)

[bayourat15]

Yeah thats true. I asn t really impressed with Bass Pro Shops . I would take Hoppe's fishin camp for tackle anyday I hated to see Gayfers go. i was drugged around a many of saturdays when i was young. had to be one of the largest department stores in da state

[nitek_of_mobile]

Oh yes, my mother drug me around Gayfers as well. I can still recall most of the store layout. At more than 270,000 square feet, Gayfers was the largest department store between Atlanta and New Orleans. It not only anchored Springdale Mall, but, in a way, anchored west Mobile.

[Southron]

Rather than a new mall or other retail complex, I'd like to see vacant downtown storefronts, as well as ground floor locations in the coming infill buildings, occupied by upscale locally owned retailers (with a few chains thrown in). As the downtown renaissance continues, this will happen, as it has in Savannah and Charleston. Banana Republic's Broughton Street location in downtown Savannah was so successful that they closed their mall store. That's the kind of thing I'd really like to see in Mobile.

[elb401]

yeah, I would like to see that too. Downtown needs a lot more work done to it to achieve the Savannah level.

[convulso]

anyone been to baltimore's inner harbor / downtown area? i was there in 2001 and got to spend a lot of time there.

balty's harborplace / gallery retail development is something i could see as a model for retail in mobile - if mobile wishes to focus retail on the waterfront and maintain (or create) a permanent public infrastructure dedicated to mixed use. of course the scale of baltimore's development is greater than anything to which a city of mobile's size should aspire, but it serves as a nice precedent for heavily urbanized waterfront development.

here are some shots - they came from flickr and are totally cribbed from random people's collections (i'm not profitting from these links, so fair use applies...)

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the bottom few floors of a skyscraper across from the harborfront are devoted to a shopping mall that should look very familiar to anyone who's been in a conventional mall:

. . . . . . .

three shots of harborfront retail mixed with TRUE public space (not public-feeling space owned by bayer properties and patrolled by private security guards interested in avoiding property liability - instead of police interested in maintaining public safety):

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adaptive reuse? nahhhh:

. . . . . . .

here're a couple of threads on UP that have some photos of this area as well as general pics of baltimore:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=32802

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5873

. . . . . . .

and the official site, which gives you an idea of the type of stores this place offers:

http://www.harborplace.com/html/mallinfo.asp

[Southron]

^^ Man, it would be nice to have something like that on the downtown waterfront. I'm not a fan of the conventional mall inside the tower, but something like the harborfront retail and public space would be incredible. Thanks for posting that, convulso. Good stuff.

[kayman]

It think if waterfront development is the way of progress for Mobile then you guys should use Riverwalk in New Orleans as a more "at-scale" development for Mobile's size.

[BamasPort]

Is there anything new for retail in Mobile? I have visited the bridgestreet town centre in Huntsville and it is exactly like the eastern shore centre in Malbis but it does has an upscale movie theater that serves steakes and other stuff .. I did not see any anchor stores such as Dillards or macy's . I realy wish that Mobile will step up it's reatil sector and Downtown would be a perfect , but what area of downtown would be a good question .

[mobileal1]

Is there anything new for retail in Mobile? I have visited the bridgestreet town centre in Huntsville and it is exactly like the eastern shore centre in Malbis but it does has an upscale movie theater that serves steakes and other stuff .. I did not see any anchor stores such as Dillards or macy's . I realy wish that Mobile will step up it's reatil sector and Downtown would be a perfect , but what area of downtown would be a good question .

[The Dude]

The area really doesn't need any more "major retail". We have just about every big box store imaginable. We have enough malls that are just the right size for our city. What we do need is what the community of Spring Hill is working on, more walkable villages that offer boutique and local stores. We need "town centers" mixed-use villages that bring a sense of community to each neighborhood.

The concept of the mall is dead anyway.

As a former Mobilian, I can say that I'm SO GLAD that we didn't get that bland, borring, lifeless sprawltopia they call the "Eastern Shore Center".

I'm still trying to find out what it's the center of.