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Beth Y

Hillsborough & Morgan St

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Although this is a little down Hillsborough Street, did anyone else notice that the old warehouse on the corner of H-boro and Morgan (at the Y) is "under contract". Does anyone know what is going on? I have always thought that would be a great rehab.

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Although this is a little down Hillsborough Street, did anyone else notice that the old warehouse on the corner of H-boro and Morgan (at the Y) is "under contract". Does anyone know what is going on? I have always thought that would be a great rehab.

That's good news. It's a big space and could be used for something really good if someone put the effort into it.

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Oh I would definitely count that as on Hillsborough St even though its address is Morgan....I have no idea what the ideas of whoever has it under contract are, but I too think it would be a cool rehab...in my case as loft apartments, although I am not sure what the interior looks like exactly....

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Thanks Beth Y, I recall seeing that last week, but I forgot about it. This is also the future site of a little talked about roundabout (compared to the others by State) at Morgan and Hillsborough that the city has been planning. It will coincide with the last conversion of Morgan to two-way traffic from St Mary's west to H-St. I would bet money these two under the radar city projects had something to do with the interest in the property sale.

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Great to hear about that warehouse... but wait. Which one are we talking about? Is it the little one on the north side of Hillsborough, across from Jade Garden, or is it the one around the corner from Jade Garden?

I've always wondered whether some sort of building was demolished on that corner to construct the sweeping curve where Hillsborough and Morgan split. Anyone know what year these streets were first converted to a one-way pair? Or perhaps have some photos of this corner from before the conversion? Jones133?

This triangular lot is now the front parking lot for Jade Garden and Cycle Logic, etc. Unfortunately, If Hillsborough/Morgan is converted to a roundabout, nothing will ever be built on that corner lot, as the roundabout will take up most of that space. It would suck to have the blank walls that face the parking lot now, facing such a prominent roundabout along such a major street.

BTW, the building with Cycle Logic is one of my absolute favorites in the city. I've never eaten there, but is Jade Garden any good? This is one of the few places in town I hope never gets refurbished, because right now it has this authentic big city feel, and you know any renovation that raises rent would force the current retail tenants out.

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^ I believe we're talking the one kinda "behind" Jade Garden...big and beige brick. (And I agree with Jones: great site for loft apartments! :thumbsup: )

The building across from Jade Garden, I *THINK* is classrooms & labs for St. Mary's School. (I could be wrong though.)

And yes, Jade Garden is good overall...it's not cheapo takeout like the other chinese places on Hillsborough...but it ain't fancy Duck & Dumpling or ultra-authentic like Red Palace either. It's just a decent little place. :shades:

And on a side note...I love Cycle Logic too....I got my bike there about 7 years ago and it's still working great. :)

I have my doubts about turning the rest of Morgan into two-way. Probably because traffic depends on Morgan to get to Glenwood, cuz you can't make a left turn onto Glenwood (nor N. Boylan) from Hillsborough. :rolleyes: But anyways, we'll see.

Edited by RaleighRob

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It is the one on the curve past Jade Garden. One wall being being the empty lot/parking lot. Capital Associates now has a sign up that says "under contract" on that wall.

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It is the one on the curve past Jade Garden. One wall being being the empty lot/parking lot. Capital Associates now has a sign up that says "under contract" on that wall.

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No pics of the old site but the 1951 topo I posted here seems to show Morgan making a T with Hillsborough. Other evidence I can glean seems to suggest that the original Avent Ford (Ferry) Road split from Hillsborough at this point. I am pretty sure the first two houses east of Morgan on Hillsborough are pulled back from the current lay of Hillsborough because they used to sit right on the Avent Ferry alignment, which also went down Ashe (also T'd up later), Bilyeu, part of Centennial and back onto the current Avent Ferry road. The building in question looks to date to about the time I think Morgan was turned north to Hillsborough St. (1940's or so)....I would expect that two or three houses circa 1880-1890 were taken down...this would also match up with aeriels I have seen of Hillsborough St from the turn of the century near NC State that show many many now lost gothic revivals and other victorian homes that fronted Hillsborough where Belltower Mart, Sadlacks, BB&T, North Hall etc currenty stand.

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I got bored so I decided to make a visual. The first image is the cropped version of the 1951 map and the second image is the cropped image blown up. I modified the second image to highlight Hillsborough, Morgan, and Glenwood. Points of interest are also added; POI #1 showing that Morgan did indeed intersect directly w/ Hillsborough. Click the images to zoom in.

Original cropped 1951 map:

12-2013191381T.jpg

Modified 1951 map w/ POI:

12-2010486981T.jpg

POI #3 modern day can be seen with the following link; the original road is still there:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...mp;t=k&om=1

Edited by DPK

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It finally occurred to me that the 1920 map shows the Morgan north/south part between the intersection with Hillsborough but not the east/west part between St Mary's street and the hard curve. The not shown part has 4 houses standing today that are roughly 1910-1920.....this part of Morgan (east west) probably had mill houses (there is a small old mill near St Marys Townhomes on Hargett) but this is pure speculation....the realization is that whatever houses/buildings may stood at Morgan/Hillsborough, were gone by 1920....there were scattered homes pre-civil war, west of the city limits, and I have not pegged all of them yet

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It finally occurred to me that the 1920 map shows the Morgan north/south part between the intersection with Hillsborough but not the east/west part between St Mary's street and the hard curve.

I think this may be a result of the words "State Penitentiary" being overlayed on the map. If you look at other spots on the 1920 map, you'll see that when whomever designed the map put text on it, they blocked out the surrounding roads. This might be a similar case, then again I have no idea either.

Also the north-south spur of Morgan you are seeing is not really Morgan on the 1921 map. If you look, that spur is further west of East Park Drive and St. Mary's (maybe it's the predecessor to Ashe Street). The 1951 and current maps show Morgan to be east of East Park. So maybe Morgan did not exist period, west of the C&S rail line downtown, until much later.

Anyone have another 1920's map?

Edited by DPK

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I am sure that is Morgan (possibly by another name) , what is probably throwing you off is that during this period Park crossed over the tracks, not Ashe. You can kind of see it on google, but in person there is a guard rail and it is easy to see how it was once the at-grade crossing. You could be right that the words on the map are obscuring teh roads though. The Roads south of Hillsborough are from West to East, Cox, Park and Ashe, with Flint the northern-most little connector between Ashe and and Park and Dexter the one next to the tracks. Agreed a better map would help, but I can never seem to make it to archives, so I rely on what I can dredge up from books and online.

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We've been talking about this before, but the N&O mentioned the price of the deal (under contract) this morning: $7.15M for the properties at Hillsbroough St and Morgan St, near the future roundabout and west of Charlie goodnight's. FMW apparently did worked on some high-profil projects in CLT: BofA Stadium, the Arena, and BofA Corporate Center. Maybe they are planning something big, especially if given the announced price.

Location:

I believe it's the bldg right next to the empty lot. I believe that property extends back behind the Jade and cycle shop over to Ashe Ave.

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^Thanks for the update. I look forward to seeing that area redeveloped, esp that empty warehouse.

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^Thanks for the update. I look forward to seeing that area redeveloped, esp that empty warehouse.

I second that! Thats my neighborhood and I've always thought it was ripe for redevelopment... hopefully using the existing warehouse!

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I used to work at Bolton Corp and beside of them is an old warehouse, is this the one we are talking about? I thought the Boltons still owned that building?

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I used to work at Bolton Corp and beside of them is an old warehouse, is this the one we are talking about? I thought the Boltons still owned that building?

I believe you are correct, and the developer bought the entire property -- the Bolton Corp and the warehouse beside it.

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Caught this on newraleigh. There will be a public meeting tomorrow at city hall at 5:00pm about the planned roundabout at Morgan and Hillsborough. Not sure if I can make it, but I'll try.

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Caught this on newraleigh. There will be a public meeting tomorrow at city hall at 5:00pm about the planned roundabout at Morgan and Hillsborough. Not sure if I can make it, but I'll try.

Good to see this may be moving forward. :thumbsup: Also glad this one is much less controversial than the roundabouts further down at the NCSU area. It makes sense for the most part...although I wonder how it'll handle the multiple lanes. I'm not a traffic circle expert. :dontknow:

Funny thing is this morning WRAL mentioned this...but they were showing aerial video of the Belltower area. :rofl:

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two lanes shouldn't be an issue. There's a two-laner in Winston Salem near Old Salem and while it doesn't handle the volume this one does, it does pretty well.

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I checked it out yesterday, will post cell phone pics soon; thoughts:

Pros:

  • roundabout design is a great fit for that location (and for the rest of Hillsborough IMO)
  • consistent with making Hillsborough more ped-friendly
  • reduces speeds for most cars/buses while keeping traffic flowing
  • elminates vehicular signal at Ashe Ave (ped signal only) and restricts left turns

Cons:

  • A giant "heritage" oak tree on the corner will apparently have to be removed for the project to go fwd*
  • the prefered design has a "bypass" lane that allows motorists to skip the roundabout (could be a "pro")
  • no bike lanes?

This project as presented will be an improvement over what's there... I was surprised to see the "bypass" lane though (typical for Raleigh ;) ). The other alternative shown was without the bypass... this one showed a simulation of the traffic overwhelming the operation of the roundabout due to heavy volumes (2 WB lanes merge into one prior to the roundabout). As much as the concept seems silly, it probably is for the best. Incidentally, they also looked at a signal, and a 2-lane roundabout, but the signalperformed poorly, and the dbl-roundabout had too many property impacts (very wide footprint).

*I do wish that instead of taking the old oak (almost 5 ft wide), they could move the impacts over on the St Mary's property instead. the problem there, is the college (?) is building condos or some type of residential there. I think the city screwed up by approving those permits while this project was being designed. They should have held up the permits to give the roundabout designers more options. Now, they are in a pinch with space, and are "forced" to take out the oak.

BTW, I heard some rumors about concepts for the FMW parcel adjacent to the roundabout (old warehouse SW side), so people are aware that something is coming, and by the price they paid for the property (~$1.4M/acre), the will have to go vertical to some degree. Rezoning perhaps?

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Thanks for the update, Chief. I'm a little confused about the part of Ashe Ave's stoplight...they're gonna remove it all (except for ped signal) and disallow left turns? I don't think I like that part at all. That'd mean anyone going from downtown to Pullen Park would then have to use Pullen Road thru NCSU. Or anyone coming up Ashe would be forced to turn right into downtown? Er...not sure about this part.

Otherwise, most of it sounds ok from what you say.

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